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matchand
Aug 20, 2003, 5:49 PM
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Would it be safe to use quickdraws with a wiregate on each end? I'm not worried about cost or anything, just performance and, obviously, safety.
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joegoesup
Aug 20, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Lots of companies sell them that way, so I can't see why it wouldn't be safe. Personally I like a standard straight gate D on the bolt clipping end and a wire on the rope end.
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dilligaf
Aug 20, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Sure, wire gate draws are just as strong as full gate biners, and they have less gate flutter, so if you want less weight and have the money to spend then I would go for the wire gates.
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emtclimber
Aug 20, 2003, 6:08 PM
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I just got some double wire gate draws....less gate flutter, I'm trying them out this weekend, I can't see a problem with both ends having wire gates or the manufacturer wouldn't sell them that way out of liability. Right? Plus the weigh less than the standard draws.
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thelawgoddess
Aug 20, 2003, 6:22 PM
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just as safe as any other 'biners. of course, that depends on how safe the 'biners are that you're using in the first place. i do it sometimes because i have more wiregates. (incidentally, my wiregates are actually stronger than my non-wire 'biners.) as for performance, that's a personal choice! :D
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jetman_jake
Aug 20, 2003, 6:22 PM
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I've got faders with wiregates on each end, and they work wonderfully. They're not any weaker, they're light, for me they feel like they're easier to clip, and they're nice and shiney. I don't really see a downside to them. :D
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redpoint73
Aug 20, 2003, 6:28 PM
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Its possible that a wiregate on a bolt hanger has a slightly higher chance of accidentally unclipping itself if its facing the right way. For more details, check out this past thread with a discussion between myself and jt512. No scientific evidence, just anecdotal.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...03&highlight=#439003
Personally, I would feel safer with a regular biner on the bolt end, preferably keylock. You don't really need a wiregate on that end anyway, it doesn't really make clipping the bolt any easier. Gate flutter is not an issue with the top biner
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overlord
Aug 21, 2003, 12:37 PM
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i use wiregates on both ends. no complaints so far.
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lollipopchic
Aug 21, 2003, 12:42 PM
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Here in Australia (i dont know whether you live here, probs not) a lot of climbs have carrot bolts. These don't have fixed hangers, so you need to buy these bolt plates that you put on the bolts. However if you use a wiregate biner at the top of the quickdraw and clip it into the boltplate, because the gate is so thin, the bolt plate can fall off (along with your quickdraw). So if you live in Australia or are planning on climbing here, don't get wiregate biners for the top half of your quickdraw.
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coldclimb
Aug 21, 2003, 5:36 PM
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I have heard that the wiregate has a chance (albeit a small one) of unclipping from the bolt easier, and I have messed around with this myself to make it happen, but other than that, I don't know of any big problems.
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emtclimber
Aug 21, 2003, 7:41 PM
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In reply to: I have heard that the wiregate has a chance (albeit a small one) of unclipping from the bolt easier, and I have messed around with this myself to make it happen, but other than that, I don't know of any big problems.
You were able to get the wire gate biner to "unclip" with your attempts?
What did you do different that made them come unclipped? Would it have come unclipped with a regular gate biner? Just curiosity questions.
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brianinslc
Aug 21, 2003, 7:56 PM
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In reply to: Would it be safe to use quickdraws with a wiregate on each end? I'm not worried about cost or anything, just performance and, obviously, safety.
This is my opinion...so...with a grain of sand...perhaps...
I used to use wiregates sometimes on both sling and quickdraws on the bolt end (ie, clipping into a hanger). I noticed a bad thing. Many wiregates, but some specifically, since in the upper part of the draw they are loose to roam (freedom of movement), will occasionally hang up on a bolt hanger. The wire/nose of the carabiner will get stuck on a bolt hanger. This is really really bad. Some 'biners will self correct under a load, some will not.
As an experiment, either at home or at a gear store, take a draw, put in a wire gate of your choise, then find a bolt hanger. See if you can position the nose gate/wire portion of the carabiner on the hanger, so its "minor axis" loaded, in other words, opposite from the way its usually positioned when you clip it to the hanger (short direction instead of long). Now, let go. See if it self corrects. If it doesn't, apply a load to the draw. See if it self corrects.
There are a few wire gate biners out there with a biggish notch between the gate nose and the wire. These notches are big enough to catch a biner and keep it in that position when loaded. Some (most all!) carabiners are extremely weak in that position (say, have failed as low as 600 lbf).
See the BD catalog and see how they sell their sport draws. Wire gate on the rope end of the draw only (exception being the neutrino which has a very small space to hang up on a hanger).
http://www.bdel.com/gear/rock/hotwire_qd.php
Anyhoo, its an easy thing to check. I'd highly recommend avoiding any wiregate carabiner on the bolt hanger end of a quick draw that has the chance of "hooking up" and minor axis loading at the gate nose/wire interface on a bolt hanger. Something to think about with wire stoppers etc too.
Brian in SLC
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