|
b_fost
Sep 1, 2003, 2:59 AM
Post #1 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 1268
|
OK- my friend and I disagree on this point, I would like you guys to clear this up.
Which type of wrist curls bring out the veins more? High weight, low rep, or low weight, high rep?
THanks a lot!
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 1, 2003, 3:10 AM
Post #2 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Where are all the junkie climbers when you need them?
Heroin Chic tres Magnifique!
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
Sep 1, 2003, 3:33 AM
Post #3 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
Okay, I'm gonna stay calm here...
Wrist curls in any form are incredibly inefficient at bringing out forearm veins. All they will do, is ruin your wrists. I promise you, if you try a long term wrist curl workout, you will have to stop due to joint pain.
I will restate my point from the prior post.
Neither of the standard low resistance/high rep vs. high resistance/low rep will be ideal for vein protrusion. It really has very little to do with this.
The increase in vein size due to workout that you speak of is not a result of either of these activities vs. the other.
The increase in vein size is secondary to that. It is the need to increase the efficiency of oxygen delivery and lactic acid removal that promotes vein enlargement.
However, that being said, If my only goal in life was to make my forearm veins bigger, I would do sets of high repititions. Even though I don't know for sure, I think that most likely, veins will enlarge more quickly as a result of high repitition workouts. The reasoning behind this was, and is, expressed in this post, and the prior one.
Travis
|
|
|
|
|
solid
Sep 1, 2003, 3:55 AM
Post #4 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 338
|
Wouldn't reps to failure with a moderatly high weight be better?
It would (guessing) raise your lactic acid threshold and develop the muscles needed to bring the veins towards the surface.
Losing weight would probably be your best bet of course...
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
Sep 1, 2003, 4:23 AM
Post #5 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
The BEST thing is doing Drop Sets.
I outlined a drop set workout in the other post. It is really the best because the initial high weight sets cause the buildup of lactic acid because of the blood flow being restricted at near maximum exhertion.
If you follow this directly with a low weight high rep set you are attaining the maximum benefit in muscle endurance gain, and vein size. The reason being, your body has to purge your arm muscles of the lactic acid and resupply oxygen for you to continue doing the low weight set.
It accomplishes this by increasing the efficiency of the transfer system, which just happens to be the cardio vascular system.
The effect is even more pronounced due to the high rep set causing a high heart rate (it's cardio intensive)
BUT, if I was only allowed to do high resistance/low rep, or low resistance/high rep workouts, and my only goal was vein size, I'd have to say the latter is the way to go.
The premise of the question is flawed. Forearm curls are a bad way to go. One or the other of the weight/repetition makes not that much difference.
It's all about getting your bodyfat% down, and increasing the efficiency of your vascular system.
Travis
|
|
|
|
|
climber49er
Sep 1, 2003, 7:21 AM
Post #6 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 8, 2003
Posts: 1404
|
Big veins are sooooo cool! I want some!
(why the heck do you want big veins?)
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 1, 2003, 7:31 AM
Post #7 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
easier to stick when the stuff is good.....
|
|
|
|
|
fruityarse
Sep 1, 2003, 11:09 AM
Post #8 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2003
Posts: 19
|
vascularity comes from being LEAN
cardio up a storm dude and watch them come ALIIIIVE....
:twisted:
|
|
|
|
|
b_fost
Sep 1, 2003, 1:11 PM
Post #9 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 1268
|
this started off as a bet... but now I'm kinda interested.... what's "cardio"? I assume it's cardiovascular, but I don't know what that is.. thanks
|
|
|
|
|
solid
Sep 1, 2003, 1:47 PM
Post #10 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 338
|
cardio = cardiovascular = workouts such as running, swimming, etc. aerobic exercise.
i'm not entirely sure if anaerobic exercise (sprinting etc) falls under cardio...
|
|
|
|
|
jansuw
Sep 1, 2003, 2:07 PM
Post #11 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 140
|
In reply to: Forearm curls are a bad way to go. Travis
Are you saying, forearm curls are bad for getting your veins pumped or just in general? You mentioned about joint pains from too many reps, but are there any other disadvantages you can think of or have experienced? What about alternative forearm exercises in the gym?
|
|
|
|
|
imaclima
Sep 1, 2003, 3:37 PM
Post #12 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 4, 2003
Posts: 75
|
why dont you quit worrying about it and just climb something...
|
|
|
|
|
jughead
Sep 1, 2003, 4:26 PM
Post #13 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 23, 2002
Posts: 292
|
while were on the subject can i ask people to tell me ways i can make myself look much tougher than i am i just wanna look buff i dont wanna be buff so i can try to get me some hot chicks but im too much of a posing pussy! !!!!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
|
|
|
|
|
b_fost
Sep 1, 2003, 8:07 PM
Post #14 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 1268
|
In reply to: cardio = cardiovascular = workouts such as running, swimming, etc. aerobic exercise. i'm not entirely sure if anaerobic exercise (sprinting etc) falls under cardio...
OK... so cardiovasular=aerobic... now i get it.
jughead flamed
In reply to: while were on the subject can i ask people to tell me ways i can make myself look much tougher than i am i just wanna look buff i dont wanna be buff so i can try to get me some hot chicks but im too much of a posing sissy! !!!!
There is a clone of this thread here that degenerated into a flame (much in part to me.)
If you want to flame on this topic, post there. please delete your senseless post so that those of us who are trying to get information, can do so here.
|
|
|
|
|
warloc
Sep 1, 2003, 8:33 PM
Post #15 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2003
Posts: 75
|
Why do you want big veins? It's much cooler to descent from a great send and have the forearms as if you didn't do anything 8)
Enjoy your climbing! :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
b_fost
Sep 1, 2003, 9:16 PM
Post #16 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 1268
|
In reply to: Why do you want big veins? It's much cooler to descent from a great send and have the forearms as if you didn't do anything 8) Enjoy your climbing! :wink:
I explained this in my first post-- my friend and I had an informal bet about which type of intensity wrist curls would bring out veins more.
I do enjoy my climbing!!
|
|
|
|
|
redpoint73
Sep 1, 2003, 10:05 PM
Post #17 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 20, 2002
Posts: 1717
|
What type of activities will bring out the veins in my head more?
Probably reading threads like this one.
|
|
|
|
|
solid
Sep 1, 2003, 10:14 PM
Post #18 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 338
|
In reply to: What type of activities will bring out the veins in my head more? Probably reading threads like this one.
smoke crack.
|
|
|
|
|
b_fost
Sep 1, 2003, 10:26 PM
Post #19 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 1268
|
In reply to: In reply to: What type of activities will bring out the veins in my head more? Probably reading threads like this one. smoke crack.
8)
|
|
|
|
|
tim
Sep 1, 2003, 11:04 PM
Post #20 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 4, 2002
Posts: 4861
|
In reply to: Okay, I'm gonna stay calm here... Wrist curls in any form are incredibly inefficient at bringing out forearm veins. All they will do, is ruin your wrists. I promise you, if you try a long term wrist curl workout, you will have to stop due to joint pain.
Actually, I've found that doing modified reverse wrist curls (hammer twists, I believe they are properly called), has eliminated my chronic elbow issues.
I have been doing heavy, weighted finger-loop/rope-knot chins for a long time, and as I got past about 1/2 bodyweight (90 lbs.), I noticed that I was getting progressively more crippling elbow pain. Climbing, especially in the gym, just made it worse. I read Eric Horst's book and started doing antagonist exercises (expansion/extension of my digits/forearm, respectively) and the pain went away.
As with a rotator-cuff injury I sustained several years ago, it was all just an issue of balance. The infraspinatus and teres minor muscles see almost the same type of neglect as the forearm extensor muscles; the treatment was substantially identical (and effective) for me to notice the commonality :-). Same deal with people who treat back pain with stomach exercises -- balance is key :-).
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
Sep 2, 2003, 4:01 AM
Post #21 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
In reply to: In reply to: Okay, I'm gonna stay calm here... Wrist curls in any form are incredibly inefficient at bringing out forearm veins. All they will do, is ruin your wrists. I promise you, if you try a long term wrist curl workout, you will have to stop due to joint pain. Actually, I've found that doing modified reverse wrist curls (hammer twists, I believe they are properly called), has eliminated my chronic elbow issues. I have been doing heavy, weighted finger-loop/rope-knot chins for a long time, and as I got past about 1/2 bodyweight (90 lbs.), I noticed that I was getting progressively more crippling elbow pain. Climbing, especially in the gym, just made it worse. I read Eric Horst's book and started doing antagonist exercises (expansion/extension of my digits/forearm, respectively) and the pain went away. As with a rotator-cuff injury I sustained several years ago, it was all just an issue of balance. The infraspinatus and teres minor muscles see almost the same type of neglect as the forearm extensor muscles; the treatment was substantially identical (and effective) for me to notice the commonality :-). Same deal with people who treat back pain with stomach exercises -- balance is key :-).
Exactly! If this thread was about training for climbing, that would have come up. From what I can tell, it's about a bet or something, and my fingers were sore from my reply in the other one.
I do the reverse "twist ups" to work forearm extensor muscles that tend to be a probem area for climbers. Working antagonist muscle groups is really incredibly important if you are going to train extensively, or even casually to increase climbing performance. When I'm doing a couple weeks of hard gym training (such as a cycle on the H.I.T. strips) I really have to watch my chest and forearm extensors. I generally do an antagonist workout 2 times a week between 3 gym workouts, and that has worked well for me.
As far as trying to get veins in your forearms using wrist curls, I still think it's asking for trouble. High reptition sets in a muscle group that complex? No thanks. I have veins the size of cigarettes, and they didin't use to be that way. Back in the body building days, I tried really hard to build them up doing various training exercises, and I think that Standing Bicept curls are the best way.
Ummmm, I think there's another question...
In reply to: tenn_dawg wrote: Forearm curls are a bad way to go. Travis Are you saying, forearm curls are bad for getting your veins pumped or just in general? You mentioned about joint pains from too many reps, but are there any other disadvantages you can think of or have experienced? What about alternative forearm exercises in the gym?
Now, I'm no expert, just an avid amatuer, but here's my take. For what it's worth.
I don't like forearm curls. I think that the forearms are a muscle group that needs to be trained in a sport specific way. Even if your sport is something like water skiing or weight lifting.
There are 2 things I think are important. One is grip strength (critical for weight lifters, water skiiers, and rock climbers) and the other is static wrist strength (good to have if your a strong guy lifting heavy things for fun).
From what I have read, gathered, and experienced, the only good way to train grip strength is by hanging on. Wrist curls, and the oh to common "Grip-r-sizers" are next to worthless for increasing grip and contact strength. Sport specific training is where it's at. So just Ski alot, or climb alot. (really more complex, but for simplicity, I'll stop there)
Now, about static forearm strength. Here's what it is... Imagine you are holding a barbell in front of you, palms up with your elbows bent 90 degrees. Like you're half way through a curl. The muscles in your forearms that keep your wrists from breaking over backwards are whats responsible for what I call "static forearm strength". Now, you CAN do wrist curls to train this muscle group for this kind of motion, BUT...
It has been my experience that forearm strength increases as the target muscle group's strength increases. For example, if you are doing bicept curls, and your bicepts get stronger, and you bump up weight, you will not have to do forearm curls to keep up. They are trained at the same time as the bicepts, just semi-staticly.
Now, back to the first question in this thread... The reason above is why I say to do bicept curls instead of wrist curls. Your forearms are getting the workout along with the biecepts, and the benefits are shared.
But this whole thing was about a bet or something wasn't it? ANYway, I had fun typing this up, and remembering all the days in the Gym trying to earn the respect of guys twice my size. I new I had arived when one day, a man was benching 500lbs, and asked me for a spot. I was SOOO honored. I actually had to pull it off of him too! I nearly ruptured myself, but after that, I was cool with the big dawgs.
Ahhhh... memories...
Travis
|
|
|
|
|
jansuw
Sep 2, 2003, 12:47 PM
Post #22 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 24, 2002
Posts: 140
|
The way i've been doing my curls is, palms facing up, to roll the weights down to the tip of my fingers as far as I can go, and then back up and curl, down again etc. I do three sets of ten with a bar, not a dumbell. I do both wrists at the same time, my forearms lying on the bench with the wrists over the side and the bar balanced in both hands. I can feel the burn in a bunch of different muscles because the forearms have to curl, extend and pull back but also balance the bar while I do this. I'm not sure how much the bar weighs but not that much. I feel that its almost a tendon work out sometimes when the bar goes down to my fingertips.
I also do the reverse wrist curls with a smaller weight, three sets of 15. Coming home from the gym, my forearms feel pretty wrecked. Just as if i'd spent half an hour working at my limit, plus its keeping the muscles in balance! :)
|
|
|
|
|
stickycat
Sep 2, 2003, 2:52 PM
Post #23 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 2, 2003
Posts: 2
|
i have veins in my forearms. Are people interested in this as for aesthetic reasons or performance? i heard about this guy who had is veins replaced with steel cabling and used hydraulics to speed up the blood flow.....
|
|
|
|
|
musicheck
Sep 6, 2003, 2:35 AM
Post #24 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2003
Posts: 34
|
it seems that the way to get veins the largest is modarte intensity, around but above the anarobic theshold. At this intensity you maintain your stength by removing lactic acid, which travels in the vains. This would make veins larger. Low intensity workouts make faster bloodflow to send more oxygen in, while higer intensity workouts are feueld by stored energy. So perhaps 10-20 reps is the right amount.
Also, wrist curls are bad because they are not climbing specific and also hurt your wrists. Reverse wrist curls are good because they are used by climbers just to tone the antagonist. The protagonists need to be trained in a climbing specific way otherwise the muscle does not adapt neurally to clibming.
|
|
|
|
|
tenn_dawg
Sep 6, 2003, 3:17 AM
Post #25 of 28
(4704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2002
Posts: 3045
|
In reply to: it seems that the way to get veins the largest is modarte intensity, around but above the anarobic theshold. At this intensity you maintain your stength by removing lactic acid, which travels in the vains. This would make veins larger. Low intensity workouts make faster bloodflow to send more oxygen in, while higer intensity workouts are feueld by stored energy. So perhaps 10-20 reps is the right amount. Also, wrist curls are bad because they are not climbing specific and also hurt your wrists. Reverse wrist curls are good because they are used by climbers just to tone the antagonist. The protagonists need to be trained in a climbing specific way otherwise the muscle does not adapt neurally to clibming.
Yeah, what he said...
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
