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baalzimon
Oct 14, 2003, 6:10 PM
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What are the best supplements to improve tendon strength?
I have taken (and am still taking some of):
Calcium/Magnesium
Glucosamine
MSM
Condroitin
Ligatend
Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Bromelain
Tumeric
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overlord
Oct 14, 2003, 6:12 PM
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i amy be wrong, but IMHO there arent any supplements for tendon strenght. thats why climbin is a relatively "doping free" sport.
just have patience and strenght will come.
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baalzimon
Oct 14, 2003, 6:24 PM
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I just want it for injury prevention. I have been climbing for five years, and even though my tendons keep getting stronger, my muscles have too, and the holds I pull on get smaller. The change of injuring a tendon is always there. I just want to create an environment in my body that gives my tendons the best chance they can to grow strong and repair themselves.
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overlord
Oct 14, 2003, 6:28 PM
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i believe i read once something about glucosamine helping with tendon problems. look it up on google.
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collegekid
Oct 14, 2003, 6:29 PM
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just eat lots of red meat to keep muscles/tendons strong, and be sure to wash it down with plenty of beer to keep all the joints/tendons lubricated.
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jt512
Oct 14, 2003, 6:32 PM
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In reply to: What are the best supplements to improve tendon strength? I have taken (and am still taking some of):
Calcium/Magnesium
Glucosamine
MSM
Condroitin
Ligatend
Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Bromelain
Tumeric
I should have been a supplement salesman.
-Jay
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gat
Oct 14, 2003, 8:01 PM
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In reply to: I have taken (and am still taking some of):
Calcium/Magnesium
Glucosamine
MSM
Condroitin
Ligatend
Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Bromelain
Tumeric
Damn, you sound rich...could you loan me some money for a couple more cams? As collateral, I'll give you whatever half finished medicine bottles I have in my bathroom cabinet.
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climb_plastic
Oct 14, 2003, 8:09 PM
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There aren't any that have had significant effects on tendon strength. Tendons have to be developed like the muscles but they get less blood to them so they develop strength slower. They start off stronger than the muscles so they're OK at the beginning but the muscles can get stronger than the tendons faster and then you risk tendon injury until the tendons catch up.
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baalzimon
Oct 14, 2003, 8:09 PM
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I am not taking Condroitin, MSM, Bromelain, or Tumeric anymore.I may start on teh Bromelain again because my google search today found a couple of things that reccomend protein enzymes.
I also took SAM-e for a month, but it is even more expensive than condroitin.
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baalzimon
Oct 14, 2003, 8:11 PM
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It also seems that vitamin C, zinc, copper, and manganese help tendons. I have seen Vitamin C listed quite often.
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jt512
Oct 14, 2003, 8:33 PM
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In reply to: I am not taking Condroitin, MSM, Bromelain, or Tumeric anymore.I may start on teh Bromelain again because my google search today found a couple of things that reccomend protein enzymes.
I did a google search and found out that the government is hiding extraterrestrial visitors in New Mexico.
-Jay
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 14, 2003, 8:48 PM
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Jay,
So is it your opinion that the use of glucosamine/condroitan is usless for connective tissue injuries?
Personally, it "seems" to have helped me with some tendon problems. I could say the same thing about shark cartilage in the days before glucosamine. The were long protracted injuries with a lot of time on and off the supplements.
A little trivia is that president bush take glucosamine/chondroitan.
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jt512
Oct 14, 2003, 9:01 PM
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In reply to: So is it your opinion that the use of glucosamine/condroitan is usless for connective tissue injuries?
My "extraterrestrial" comment was aimed more at the "protein enzyme" comment. As to glucosamine/chondroitin, as far as I know, there is no scientific evidence of them having any benefit for connective tissue. "No evidence," in this case meaning that it appears never to have been studied. Glucosamine (and maybe chondroitin) appear to benefit in some cases of arthritis and joint injury, possibly by helping to rebuild joint cartilage. It is hard to see why this would be of direct benefit to connective tissue, though perhaps other mechanisms could be involved. Glucosamine is a mild anti-inflammatory, which could possibly help tendons heal.
-Jay
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 14, 2003, 9:07 PM
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In reply to: My "extraterrestrial" comment was aimed more at the "protein enzyme" comment.
I didn't attribute anything to that comment.
Thanks for the response on gluc.
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dynoguy
Oct 14, 2003, 9:08 PM
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In reply to: What are the best supplements to improve tendon strength? I have taken (and am still taking some of):
Calcium/Magnesium
Glucosamine
MSM
Condroitin
Ligatend
Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Bromelain
Tumeric
Maybe you should work on your technique and strength instead of taking some many drugs :roll:
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curt
Oct 14, 2003, 9:09 PM
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In reply to: So is it your opinion that the use of glucosamine/condroitan is usless for connective tissue injuries?
Curt
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heath
Oct 15, 2003, 4:49 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am not taking Condroitin, MSM, Bromelain, or Tumeric anymore.I may start on teh Bromelain again because my google search today found a couple of things that reccomend protein enzymes. I did a google search and found out that the government is hiding extraterrestrial visitors in New Mexico. -Jay
The primary difference being that while one can use google to find information about the government hiding extraterrestial visitors, this information generally doesn't come from respected institutions. A fair amount of research has been done on the supplements that baalzimon mentioned that indicates that these supplements have certain therapeutic effects. One can question the veracity of this research, particularly in the case of MSM, but it's probably not fair to suggest that none of the supplements mentioned have the potential of being beneficial.
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heath
Oct 15, 2003, 5:24 AM
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In reply to: So is it your opinion that the use of glucosamine/condroitan is usless for connective tissue injuries?
Research suggests that glucosamine increases the volume and viscosity of synovial fluid. In addition to providing lubrication and shock absorption for joints, synovial fluid also provides lubrication for the tendons as they move through the synovium. Synovial fluid also provides nutrition for the tendons. I haven't found any research that suggests that the increased volume and viscosity of the synovial fluid is beneficial to tendon health, however this is a fairly rational hypothesis to make. There is a good deal of research that suggests that the effects of glucosamine are effective in treating osteoarthritis.
In this thread, someone also wrote that they once took shark cartilage, but are now taking glucosamine/chondroitin. Chondroitin is shark cartilage, or rather, it is derived from shark cartilage. The research that I've read seems to indicate that chondroitin will prevent or reverse the erosion of cartilage in people that have osteoarthritis. It is effective in maintaining joint health, and may also improve the quality of the synovial fluid which could also be beneficial for tendon health.
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jt512
Oct 15, 2003, 3:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I am not taking Condroitin, MSM, Bromelain, or Tumeric anymore.I may start on teh Bromelain again because my google search today found a couple of things that reccomend protein enzymes. I did a google search and found out that the government is hiding extraterrestrial visitors in New Mexico. -Jay The primary difference being that while one can use google to find information about the government hiding extraterrestial visitors, this information generally doesn't come from respected institutions.
And the primary similarity being that therapeutic effect of "protein enzymes" is about as real as the extraterrestrials.
In reply to: A fair amount of research has been done on the supplements that baalzimon mentioned that indicates that these supplements have certain therapeutic effects.
In a pig's eye. How about we word it this way: "Some research has been done on some of the substances baalzimon mentioned. In some cases, this research has suggested that some of these supplements may have therapeutic effects. However, to date, little if any research on human subjects has been conducted. Hence, benefits have not been demonstrated. Furthermore, many supplements, which showed promise in non-human research, have failed to be beneficial when tested in clinical trials. Indeed, the record for supplements overall has been dismal. In light of this, reliance on unproven supplements is likely to be folly."
-Jay
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baalzimon
Oct 16, 2003, 4:59 PM
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In reply to: Maybe you should work on your technique and strength instead of taking some many drugs
Not very good advice coming from someone as weak and poorly skilled as yourself. May be you should work on your posting technique, and write something pertinent, useful and intelligent.
Do you think that the best climbers in the world are immune from tendon injuries becuase of their strength and technique? Wouldn't strong climbers tend to work hard problems which often put very high stresses on their tendons?
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doktor_g
Oct 16, 2003, 5:25 PM
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Mi dos centavos:
Yes, glucosamine has been found to help connective tissue pain and other symptoms of osteoarthritis. However, it's efficacy for increasing "strength" has not been studied to my knowledge. In addition the glucosamine dosages studied were VERY large - appx 1800mg per day.
For increasing muscle and tendon strength the best advice is having a healthy lifestyle... staying away from drugs, tobacco, and booze. caffeine may have a negative effect too (it does on bones at least). The importance of a healthy well balanced diet cannot be underscored enough. Listen to your body and take days off when you hurt. Were not superhuman. Push through it when you want, but don't make it a habit.
Finally a word on "supplements." I would stay away from these gimmicks if I were you. You are putting something in your body as a drug that is unnatural and likely shouldn't be there. In addition, these are NOT REGULATED by the FDA. This is huge. You may not be getting what you pay for. Many tests have revealed that these things contain all sorts of impurities and may not even have the agents listed on the bottle. It's like me standing in a straw hat in the 19th century crying "step right up step right up and have a shot of Dr. Shipman's elixir of life proven effective against rheumatism and evil spirits."
Remember the difference between a drug and a poison is knowledge of it's side-effects. We don't know the side effects of alot of this stuff. Be careful.
- Armchair analyst
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t-dog
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Oct 16, 2003, 6:03 PM
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Dude, you guys are taking all the wrong kinds of drugs. :wink:
Also, just because you are climbing harder doesn't mean that you have to put much more strain on your tendons.
Learn to use body tension and to make moves statically as opposed to dynamic lunges to poor crimpers. That will reduce your chances of hurting your tendons.
And there's nothing wrong with open handing crimpers, which will save your tendons lots of grief too.
just some thoughts...
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csoles
Oct 16, 2003, 6:35 PM
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Whenever this comes up, people should refer to http://www.supplementwatch.com. Since I'm having ACL surgery next week, I likely will try bromelain (a proteolytic enzyme) to help speed recovery. But the only thing I've seen that has good evidence for strengthening uninjured tendons doesn't come in a pill or liquid.
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deadpointman
Oct 16, 2003, 7:32 PM
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Dude, I know of this really rad supplement for preventing tendon injuries called dihydrogen monoxide or something like that.
Yes, water :!: Seriously, making sure you're fully hydrated while doing hard bouldering or climbing is probably the single most important step one can take in preventing damage to connective tissue such as tendon. The other thing to remember is to thoroughly warm up and stretch your finger flexors before pulling really hard on anything. I know, this stuff sounds basic, but if you're not doing it, you shouldn't even be thinking about supplements (because doing so would surely be an ineffecient use of time that could be spent putting water in a bottle or learning how to warm up properly). Can supplements make well cared-for tendons even more resistant to inury? Dunno, but good luck with the supplements. I take a few myself including glucosamine and chonroitin and vitamin C, vitamin E, and selenium (the latter 3 being my antioxidant cocktail).
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heath
Oct 16, 2003, 10:52 PM
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In reply to: And the primary similarity being that therapeutic effect of "protein enzymes" is about as real as the extraterrestrials.
If you're referring to bromelain, there is an article in volume 24 (1992) of the journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise that discusses a study done about it. I can't find an abstract, and that issue predates all the digital copies that I can find, but the references suggest that the study found bromelain to be an effective anti-inflammatory. I live near Stanford, which has the print edition at their medical library. Unfortunately, I'm leaving town tomorrow for a conference, when I return, I'll go down there and get a copy of the article. It seems to be a generally held belief that bromelain is an effective anti-inflammatory, which would make it beneficial for tendonitis. I would personally like an alternative to anti-inflammatory doses of NSAIDs and would consider bromelain for that purpose.
In reply to: In a pig's eye. How about we word it this way: "Some research has been done on some of the substances baalzimon mentioned. In some cases, this research has suggested that some of these supplements may have therapeutic effects. However, to date, little if any research on human subjects has been conducted. Hence, benefits have not been demonstrated. Furthermore, many supplements, which showed promise in non-human research, have failed to be beneficial when tested in clinical trials. Indeed, the record for supplements overall has been dismal. In light of this, reliance on unproven supplements is likely to be folly."
You're welcome to cite any research that supports your position. I would like to see it. I certainly understand your point. The supplement market is rife with shill artists and quacks that will make wild claims and references to "research" without any actual citations or evidence. It's difficult to sift through all the chaff to find real information about a given supplement. However, that doesn't mean that all supplements are ineffective.
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