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israelclimber
Dec 9, 2003, 12:45 AM
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I have climbed in Israel where we have no cam friendly cracks. I am always climbing stuff that I won't fall on and always place from a stance. I have only used passive pro and feel fine with that but was looking into purchasing some cams. I was going to start with BD .5-3.0. Would anyone suggest getting some aliens (red, yellow, green) and or TCUs 00,0,1 or will I never use them? I will be climbing in Cathedral, Whitehorse, NH and the Gunks, NY.
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rokshoxbkr19
Dec 9, 2003, 12:51 AM
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it is always good to have a few aliens up your sleeve. Most people will tell you that they are an aid climbers best friend, but the super flexy stem can be useful in the Gunks and in some areas all over the place. You don't really NEED any, but gear is fun. I would suggest starting out with your passive stuff and the BD's (good choice :D ) and see for yourself. If you are going to be climbing in the Gunks, I would tell you to invest in tricams (pink, red and brown) before you get aliens. Have fun!!!
any more questons PM me.
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crackboy
Dec 9, 2003, 5:56 AM
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the smallest you'll probably should go is the green alien, smaller than that on the grade level you are climbing, and you can most likely find a larger placement, granted i have placed smaller on climbs that hard, but still
definitly pick up some tricams for a northeast us trip. 2 pink, 2 red ought to do ya good and if you are feeling gear envy get a brown
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j_ung
Dec 11, 2003, 9:09 PM
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Yeah man, you can't call your rack complete without small cams! Every climb is different, but I place gear of all sizes on climbs of all grades. Tricams are awsome, too. But if you go that route, wrap a bunch of ducktape around the webbing to 1) protect that thin-ass sh-t, and 2) stiffen the piece to make it easier to place one handed. (No penis jokes, please!)
j_ung
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jimdavis
Dec 11, 2003, 9:20 PM
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I'd recommend Metolius Cams (power or TCU's) and Aliens for the small stuff. BD is heavy, overpriced, and you can't clip in short on them. Rock and Ice just did a review of small cams, Metolius came in first.
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olympicmtnboy
Dec 13, 2003, 5:11 PM
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In response to your question though, in most areas, no. I don'y have any cams smaller than a 0.5 camalot and I just moved into 5.9 this year. Now I'm really starting to need some smaller gear, but I got by just fine until now. Of course you can find some route somewhere that is 5.7 and only takes tiny cam placements, but I'd guess for the majority of routes in that range you'll either be able to find a nut placement, or a bigger cam placement, or move up 3 feet and you'll find one and still not be too run out.
Yes, more gear is great, if you've got money burning in your pocket go buy some aliens or TCUs. I'd rather spend it on climbing trips until you start climbing harder and then realize your route is deficient there. At some point you'll want smaller cams, but you probably don't NEED them just yet. That's just my $0.02.
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andypro
Dec 13, 2003, 7:03 PM
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In reply to: or TCUs 00,0,1 or will I never use them?
The 00 and veen the 0 soemtimes are rpetty useless in my opinion. I think even the 00 says for direct aid only. If I were in a position ot use either of them, I'd put a nut in it and be done wiht it. If it wont take ANYHTING else but either of those cams...eesh. Dont fall.
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pico23
Dec 13, 2003, 7:12 PM
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I don't really feel that particular cam sizes are for particular grades. Climbing in the Gunks you can definitely find places for the small cams on the 5.2-5.6 climbs. The reason is there is usually plentiful protection options and your only limited by what you limit yourself to.
The reason people feel small cams are better suited for harder climbs is there is a general assumption that the harder you're climbing the more experience you have. Placing those little cams competently takes a much better eye and has much less room for error than a bigger cam. THe difference between well cammed and under cammed on a green alien isn't much and a beginner might not have a good eye for that placement.
I frequently use the red alien in the gunks on climbs under 5.7. It's almost the same size as the .5 camalot but it always seems to sink in at the right time.
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petsfed
Dec 13, 2003, 9:32 PM
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Definitely. In Eldo you might see a really juggy face route protected with micro cams. There is a route at Vedauwoo (Cornelius) that takes an even mix of nuts and cams, none larger than about an inch. Its 5.5. Have a good range from about finger width to around 3-4" and you'll be good to go for most any situation that presents itself.
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billcoe_
Dec 19, 2003, 5:52 AM
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no
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timstich
Dec 20, 2003, 3:22 AM
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But what about the 5.5 slab I climbed last weekend? But...but????
Bill's pulling your leg. Runout easy slabs can have little to no pro, with only a thin seam that will take a RURP to protect 100 feet. There is no rhyme or reason to the pro sizes and difficulty level.
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smellyhippie
Dec 20, 2003, 5:36 AM
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Agreed with timstitch.
Just cuz a climb is only 5.5. don't mean it won't eat the small stuff.
Personally I love the small stuff, because 4 Aliens weigh about the same a number 3 BD, and although you can't really justify not carrying the #3 because the climb you're on might require it, you might have four placements with the little fellas for the same weight as the #3.
Did that make sense?
Anyway, I like carrying lots of little stuff and using it in the belay anchor for multipitching.
Ultimately you'll probably end up buying it all so you're choice of routes won't be dictated by the gear you got.
Thats all I got.
Nate
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billcoe_
Dec 21, 2003, 5:23 AM
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I always agree with timstich as well, but I thought the question was "Do I need anything smaller than .5 BD Cam for 5.7 and down?".
Small nuts would be cheaper and probably work better most of the time. If you want small TCUS hey, go ahead of course, but most of those climbs were probably FAed with pins or nuts only years ago and many times since without cams. I would expect you wouldn't NEED small tcus. Doesn't mean they wouldn't be nice to have.
B
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mheyman
Dec 21, 2003, 6:31 AM
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For BD down to and including the 0.4. BDs aren't bad below 0.4, They are strong and stable. But because they are very wide they are of more limited use in the very small sizes than Aliens
Absolutely carry small gear. It's small light. Learn to use it. If/when you lighten your rack for some reason (like a short hard section) the big cams come off first unless you know you will need them. The small ones come off last. They are small and light. Did I already say that? Aliens for the small stuff.
Really you could make do with any decent cams though WC, BD, Met, Aliens. Pick what you like.
For the Gunks Tricams are great Don't go without a red and pink if you can help it. I lek the first four or so sizes. As stated many people double up on red and pink.
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