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spank_spank
Mar 14, 2002, 3:03 PM
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If you climb a lead route or a trad route on toprope, (without a fall or weighting the rope) is it a valid ascent?
Personally I feel that it is. There are so many routes out there I want to climb. If I send a route whether its on TR or on lead, I take it and move on to the next.
As one of my good friends has stated. The future of our sport is in Toproping. The elite guys and girls are going to be climbing a route that is to high to boulder and to scary to clip because the holds are to small.
Is toproping the future of our sport?
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treyr
Mar 14, 2002, 3:15 PM
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I think so
Trob
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case22
Mar 14, 2002, 3:19 PM
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I think that top-roping a route is fine. However, I don't think that people will start doing that instead of lead climbing or bouldering. I myself will just do more trad if stuff gets too hard to climb without top-roping it.
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kelownaclimber
Mar 14, 2002, 3:44 PM
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A toprope ascent is fine,however it is not the same as having to stop and clip or place gear.Remember working a route on TR so you can get the redpoint is great,but there is no glory in a toprope!!!
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dynomaster
Mar 14, 2002, 3:47 PM
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Plus there's no thrill! I think TR is good for training, but would much rather lead!
Dyno ON
Andy
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rrrADAM
Mar 14, 2002, 4:24 PM
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Glory ???
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traddad
Mar 14, 2002, 4:32 PM
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Do what you like, but as the old saw goes, "To thine own self be true". In other words, take pride in the ascent you did and do not equate it to the FA on lead. If I climbed "Indian Face" on top rope, I would be extatic, but I would never compare myself to Johnny Dawes or John Redhead. see:
www.johnnydawes.com/Indian_Face.htm
Traddad
[ This Message was edited by: traddad on 2002-03-14 09:52 ]
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rrrADAM
Mar 14, 2002, 4:38 PM
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I enjoy TRing a 5.7, just as much as leading a 5.11c Sport Route, or a 5.10c Trad Crack.
It's all climbing brutha.
rrrADAM
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camhead
Mar 14, 2002, 5:20 PM
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Yes, it is all climbing.
HOWEVER, placing gear will add tons to a climb's grade.
I can zip up a 12a crack no problem, but stopping to fiddle the right size cam or stopper into a placement will quickly reduce me to a quivering baby.
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rrrADAM
Mar 14, 2002, 5:46 PM
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Good reply "camhead".
My sentiments exactly, just no .12 cracks for me. I'd be crying as I was tying in.
rrrADAM
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-03-14 09:47 ]
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froggy
Mar 14, 2002, 5:52 PM
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I think climbing is climbing. Just get outside and enjoy. If you are TR-ing or hangin' out or leading, it is all way better and more enjoyable than sitting on your ass inside watching T.V.
Climb however you feel you want to climb, not for bragging rights, but for personal goals.
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jcclimber
Mar 14, 2002, 6:05 PM
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Toproping although good for practice, is no way near as challenging as a lead ascent, and therefore should not be recognized as one. The purpose of toproping is to not fall, and not hang on the rope. The idea is that after you toprope it you lead it. Toproping just adds comfort and safety to ones mind. Personally, I can redpoint 5.12b but I could toprope a 5.12d. When one is toproping he has taken away the mental aspect of leading, which plays a huge role in whether or not one will succeed or fail. I happen to toprope many harder routes before I lead them, just to learn the moves, etc... After I feel that I can make the climb, I lead it, thus giving me a 'headpoint'. If you feel that toproping is the future of the sport, you are dead wrong! The last time I checked, boulder problems were getting higher and harder, soloing is becoming more popular, and everthing else that you mentioned is the opposite. Congradulations on your toprope, but you in no way have the right to claim an ascent of whatever it was you climbed. Once you lead it, free it, or solo it, let me know and I will give credit. Don't be running around and spreading your poor thoughts and ideas to newbie climbers either. All we need is a bunch of toprope "first ascentionists".
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daisuke
Mar 14, 2002, 6:15 PM
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I'm of the oppinion that climbing is just climbing, I get scared when leading some routes. In the end climbing is all climbing, it's just the risks that change, and some are more chicken than others.
I wouldn't worry much about toprope first ascensionists, the ppl that toprope generally won't be tackling the bigger harder stuff. some routes can't be lead tho so you'll get some there but then you have no choice.
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spank_spank
Mar 14, 2002, 6:26 PM
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jcclimber - If somebody ask me if I have done a route and I did on top rope. I tell them that I have redpointed it on top rope. Also if I have done it on TR and not on lead, who cares? In my book the route is finished. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE GRADE, LIKE YOU DO!. And let me state this, 99% of my project have been done on lead. I sometime will TR something and if I do it without a fall, I am done with it.
Trust me, you will see an elite climber do an ascent on toprope someday. He or she will explain to people like you that it (at the time) was the safest way to do it. Of course, I am talking about grades that have not been done yet.
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jt512
Mar 14, 2002, 6:58 PM
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"Redpoint on toprope" is a contradiction, since "redpoint" refers specifically to lead climbing. If you TRed a route without falling or resting on the rope, it is just a "clean toprope ascent."
-Jay
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camhead
Mar 14, 2002, 7:14 PM
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I'm going to plagiarize from Crackwhore's profile:
"I believe free soloing and toproping to be the highest forms of climbing ;just the movement-nothing else."
Aesthetically, TRing is beautiful. Sorry to sound like a floozy, but it really is. It is a special feeling to just get into a movement, a flow, and forget about placing gear or clipping in. It is damn fun climbing.
Since I do not plan to be free soloing anytime in the near future, toproping is the ONLY way to get into this 'flow' of climbing.
I love toproping, I do it to relax, to warm up, or whenever else I don't feel like leading. Don't let folks talk trash on it either. If it is all you want to do, fine, go for it.
p.s.
it would be cool if there was a Toprope level for the ascents lists on this site.
[ This Message was edited by: camhead on 2002-03-14 11:15 ]
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spank_spank
Mar 14, 2002, 7:18 PM
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I have never had somebody say that, "how can you redpoint on Toprope?".
Either way, what I mean by redpoint is to do a climb without falling or weighting the rope.
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rrrADAM
Mar 14, 2002, 7:24 PM
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"When one is toproping he has taken away the mental aspect of leading, which plays a huge role in whether or not one will succeed or fail."
jcclimber-I'm assuming that you are a Sport Climber... If so, come down to SoCal, and let me take you to Tahquitz or Suicide, so we can test your "mental aspect of leading, which plays a huge role in whether or not one will succeed or fail", on some run-out Trad lines.
Don't worry, I'll set up a top rope for you, so you can work the moves.
rrrADAM
[ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2002-03-14 11:53 ]
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froggy
Mar 14, 2002, 7:44 PM
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JCC I think that you are way off
I lead, TR, sport climb, hang out and just plain enjoy being out climbing. If I am leading a climb there might be a little more excitement about the accomplishment. But, when I TR'd my first 11.b w/-out taking a lot of falls I was pretty stoked too. Just enjoy it and do what feels right.
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saltspringer
Mar 14, 2002, 8:52 PM
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well...if TRing is the future of climbing then the future doesn't include traverses, multi-pitch or big roof problems, I guess! Tring is fine but you still need a way to get the rope to the top and that is what Trad leading is all about: discovering new territory by starting on the ground and seeing where it leads you. So, is a TR ascent "valid"? Sure, in some ways but it's not what the heart & soul of climbing is based upon. Also, I think that bouldering is probably the purest form of climbing along with soloing: minimal gear, total immersion
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climber1
Mar 14, 2002, 8:55 PM
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I don't believe there is anything wrong with TRing a route. it is a valid ascent. many of the routes in Joshua Tree were TR'd before being led.
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theamish
Mar 14, 2002, 8:58 PM
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As it's been said many times " climbing is climbing" no matter what type it is. Thelove of my life does not lead ....... why ?? she climbs (no kidding) 5.12 consistently but she also has two children that depend on her to be there every night and it's not worth the risk for her. Do I respect her any less ?? Hell no, I respect her more for not being self centered in her interests.
I climb because I love it and yes I've used TR many times. It's all fun as long as your out there.
P.S. If you ever find a climber, other than a boulderer perhaps, that hasn't TR'd sometime in their life, you've probably found a one of a kind. Also if you think back, you were probably pretty damn proud the first time you made it to the top and I'll bet it was on a TR.
[ This Message was edited by: theamish on 2002-03-14 13:07 ]
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sugarbaby
Mar 14, 2002, 9:09 PM
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toproping is still climbing
now if you have your belayer pull you up the rock (easy to do) then no you can't say you climbed anything. but alot of areas to climb at now are more dangerous, and i think toproping helpes safety alot. if you're climbing something harder than you've ever done, and you want to feel safer on it, toprope it. after you've tried it, then lead climb, cuz in actuality, that's the only way you can really feel you conquered it.
climb on!!
Jenna
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jt512
Mar 14, 2002, 9:22 PM
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Quote:Camhead: Aesthetically, TRing is beautiful. Sorry to sound like a floozy, but it really is. It is a special feeling to just get into a movement, a flow, and forget about placing gear or clipping in. It is damn fun climbing.
I agree. Some routes just flow when you don't have to stop and place gear or clip bolts.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-03-14 13:37 ]
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theamish
Mar 14, 2002, 9:23 PM
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Your belayer can pull you up the rock ??? Hmmmm either I'm terribly weak, your belayer is really strong, or you are incredibly light.
[ This Message was edited by: theamish on 2002-03-14 13:39 ]
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