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okc_discgolfer
Jan 14, 2004, 3:08 PM
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Registered: Dec 14, 2003
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well....i have done it again.
i managed to dislocate my L shoulder, but this time it was at the gym.
i cant really call it a climbing injury because of the history of my shoulder, but it did happen during a climb.
i had a couple guys at the gym "reduce" the shoulder (pop it back in). they were like"that was cool, you alright?"
after it was all done and over....i decide to create a way to reduce my own shoulder.....DON'T TRY THIS YOURSELF...I'M NOT A DR.......
first off u need to be able to suspend your body weight from a sling. you want the sling to go under both arm (not up to the armpit but just below)
now take a length of cord or webbing and make a small noose..put the end of the noose around the wrist of the dislocated arm......
now the idea is to totally relax the arm and the shoulder as well as your chest......take the tail end of the noose in the other hand and hold it around the waist allowing some to hang down....now with body and arm relaxed....place foot on tail end of noose and SLOWLY step down....relaxation is very important as the arm needs to be pulled from the axis......you will hear it and feal it return to the socket...and viola...you have just reduced you dislocated shoulder......
i have had my shoulder set by many Dr.'s and they always hurt the sh1t out of me. and the "preferred method" to reduce shoulders involves alot of rotation of the arm. and seems to aggravate the tendons that were not injured. ..i have stoped going to the Dr. for this now....with the help of 2 people i have reduced my shoulder quite a few times now.
i am sure we have a few members who are Dr.'s and i would be very interested in some feedback on "my" unassisted method. keep in mind that i would only be using this method if i didn't have any with me, or they lacked the strength to perform the reduction for me
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asaph
Jan 14, 2004, 4:07 PM
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arent there a lot of nerves you can hurt by not doing it properly?
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okc_discgolfer
Jan 14, 2004, 8:15 PM
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i don't know......WTF.....answer a ? with another ?
i can tell you this.......the pain from having it dislocated is bad.....the pain from having it set is slight....so you tell me....which would you prefer?
p.s.
http://www.ori.org.au/bonejoint/shoulder/contents.htm
try to google it before you ask questions, the internet is your tool....information is the project
but seriously....any Dr.'s have an opinion to my method of "self-reduction of a shoulder"??? i would be very grateful for any feedback(educated)
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aimeerose
Jan 15, 2004, 12:52 AM
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Registered: Jan 21, 2003
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Have you ever seen an orthopedic surgeon about your shoulder? If it dislocates all the time, surgery could help. You could also be damagin the labrum (the part that keeps your shoulder together) every time you dislocate it. It might be a good idea to get an MRI just to find out what kind of damage might be occuring.
I am not an MD, but I did take an EMT class that demonstrated self-reduction by lying prone (on your stomach) and dangling the arm off whatever you are lying on with a heavy object in your hand (they showed a gallon bucket with water in it). You kind of move your arm around until it reduces. I guess this was for an anterior dislocation, since they are the most common, but it didn't say.
Good luck.
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dwise
Jan 15, 2004, 1:19 AM
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I've dislocated both shoulders several times. I was always able to reduce my right shoulder quite easily and the pain would go away in a few days. I had surgery on my right shoulder and haven't had any issues since.
My left shoulder, though, comes out every few years. I've never been able to reduce it by myself (or even with 2 Army Special Forces medics tugging on it). I always end up drugged up at some emergency room with a doc tugging it around.
I'm no doc either, but I've had many warn against self-reducing because of the potential nerve damage, etc. I try the usual tricks to self reduce, but figure better safe than sorry. I'd stick with going to the doc. Better to have someone to kick and cuss at when they're reducing it anyway.
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kunzie
Jan 15, 2004, 2:01 AM
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I dislocated my shoulder early december, haven't gone climbing since, but I found I didn't need anyone else to pop it back it, it reduced itself as I probably tensed the shoulder (I lent back in my chair, went over the edge, put my arm down to support myself and my body weight just kept rolling over it... :cry: ). But, both parents being doctors, they told me to go see a physio mate of theirs, and he gave me various exercises to do to stabilise the shoulder. Have you tried seeing, as said before, a physiotherapist or orthopedic surgeon? Regular GP's tend to not have too much specialisation in muscular-skeletal injuries/systems, which is what my parents understand and why they sent me to someone else. Perhaps you need some rotator cuff strengthening exercises...
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jakedatc
Jan 15, 2004, 2:05 AM
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Aimee In reply to: I guess this was for an anterior dislocation, since they are the most common, but it didn't say.
There are lots of things you can damage reducing your own dislocations.. Nerve damage, shoulder socket fractures, labrum tears etc
the more times you dislocate your shoulder the easier it becomes to go out and back in.. the capsule stretches out
If your doctor kills ya reducing it.. see if he/she knows the technique where they actually move the scapula back to your humerus instead of the other way around.. quite cool (i believe it's used in combination of the weight thing)
now as an athletic trainer my job is quite simple.. pack in ice and ship away or let the team doctor handle it since its not in our Standard of Care legally
jake
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powen
Jan 15, 2004, 2:22 AM
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I did the same thing over the course of a year or two playing soccer, lifting things over my head, raquetball, bedroom antics etc. etc... I always managed to just roll my shoulder back into place by shrugging it somewhat and rolling it around. I never had to resort to slamming it into a wall or whatnot a la Mel Gibson "Lethal Weapon" style or by hanging from anything (thank goodness!).
I eventually had shoulder surgery to correct the problem and have not had problems since, even though I have started climbing and snowboarding since (knocks on wood).
Your recurring injury sounds very different in that the amount of pain and time it takes to correct it is nowhere near what I had to deal with... I would, however, caution you against seeking the advice of a doctor on this board, I really doubt that a licensed physician would give you the thumbs up to perform a self reduction on a web forum. Some of the advice might be good, heck, I wouldn't question an EMT (nuff respect), I just doubt an MD would say anything but "go see an orthopedic specialist" without having you physically in his office.
Then again, I might be wrong:) If you do find out exactly what is causing it and it's the same as mine, PM me and I can tell you what I went thru in rehab (not bad at all). Either way, I hope you eventually get better and can start climbing again. Good luck!
PS: This is the exact description of what I had done:
Debridement, which includes removing loose fragments of tendon and bursa and other debris from inside the irritated, injured, or torn area of the subacromial space. Making more room in the subacromial space so that the rotator cuff tendon is not pinched or irritated. If necessary, this process may include shaving bone or removing growths on the upper point of the shoulder blade. Sewing the torn edges of the supraspinatus tendon together to the top of the upper arm bone (humerus). (all from webmd.com)
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okc_discgolfer
Jan 15, 2004, 2:49 AM
Post #9 of 13
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Registered: Dec 14, 2003
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well..as of now i do not have ins. :(
i would wouldn't be taking the advice over my Dr.'s.....
it's just that it doesnt allways happen when a Dr. is available.
i DO know that i require surgery, but until i can get it done im stuck in the this situation.......
i have read on how to self reduce it and have tried it....in a sitting posistion knees bent and arms over knees....and pull away...OUCH!!
i've tried it before and it was to painful to complete.
im just trying to think of a method that i am comfortable with....that has little risk of damage...
the problem i have had with the recomended method was that i was unable to relax in the sitting posistion. here is a link to the method i speek of http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2000/11_00/joy.htm
i dont want to have to worry about being close to a Dr. when i go camping with my wife ...personally i dont think she has the arm strength to pull in the manner needed.....
i just want to know how to get my arm in the right spot so i can get on with my biz. i understand the nerve damage and circulatory problems that might be associated with the shoulder and it is always my first concern.....
i have had it dislocate doing many things....including sleeping 3 times..drunken fight 1 time ...rough houseing with children 2 times..water sking 1 time...and climbing 1 time......and 1 time stoping some kids from beating up another kid......so im pretty sure it will happen again before i am in the position for surgery.
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dynobelay
Jan 17, 2004, 6:31 PM
Post #10 of 13
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Registered: Sep 10, 2003
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I agree with you. It's good to have a technique in mind to get it back in. In all practicality you often can't wait; its awkward, hurts, and a doctor is a long ways away. I've re-set mine 10 times mostly with help of someone pulling but several times on my own.
Relaxation helps but it is often hard to do. If my puller pads my armpit before putting his foot there and pulling my arm it usually works. Unpadded I can't help tensing up and resisting. Then I'd resort to the hanging weight method which works but takes time. One method I did once was lean over a table, grab table support by floor and pull thereby stretching my arm while the table top is pushing against chest; it worked great.
Oh, I've had it operated on twice. 1st one didn't work. It's good now but certainly not 100%, maybe 85% is my guess. I have to be carefull. My problem was that I ripped all the tendons off so it kept coming out untill they were reattached. I recommend regular surgery (not the scope); the scar is minor so let them see everything and do it right.
I think you should check in for surgery as soon as you are able. Ask about price. You might be able to afford it without insurance? Good luck.
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okcdirtbag
Jan 17, 2004, 7:49 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Registered: Sep 7, 2003
Posts: 65
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well it was cool to help ya put it back in, although i expected a much louder pop!
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polishbob
Jan 19, 2004, 2:26 AM
Post #12 of 13
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Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 58
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In reply to: Have you ever seen an orthopedic surgeon about your shoulder? If it dislocates all the time, surgery could help. You could also be damagin the labrum (the part that keeps your shoulder together) every time you dislocate it. It might be a good idea to get an MRI just to find out what kind of damage might be occuring. . Good luck. |
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okc_discgolfer
Jan 21, 2004, 4:23 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Registered: Dec 14, 2003
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well....as predicted it has dislocated again....this time when i woke up and did my morning stretch....
it went back in in less than 5 minutes in the manner i mentioned above in the first post.
i did decide to go to the Dr. and without ins. the only option was to go to the local teaching hospital.
x-ray shows that there is some bone damage and no telling what kind of damage the soft tissue has until i get into the clinic and get a MRI.
i just hope that they don't say "lets try to rehab it"...cause its too late for that in my opinion(granted im not a DR but it IS my arm)
i will follow up with the details as i find them out.
BTW
foremost.....it is most important to relax your upper body when trying to reduce your own shoulder(Dr. said so too) so if you find your self on the crag and your arms FUBAR keep it in mind.
and YES i will burst my own bubble.........i reduced my shoulder using nothing but 1 inch tubed webbing totally unassisted in an upright posistion.
im not trying to say my way is a better treatment than going to the Dr. but i never seen a Dr. do a "crag" call. so in essence .....my way is nothing more than quick self treatment until you can seek pro. advice
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