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dynoguy
Feb 25, 2004, 6:13 AM
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We all see them and wonder about the mutants who put them up there, but would you trust them if you didn't know how long they were there? Smith is widely decorated with this "jewlery", and I have often thought about jumping on some of the harder climbs because I won't have to worry about losing a draw. What do you guys think about project draws?
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dynoguy
Feb 25, 2004, 4:36 PM
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Does sitting in the sun all that time weaken them?
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redpoint73
Feb 25, 2004, 4:48 PM
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Project draws are usually only up for maybe a couple weeks, tops (at least where I climb). I would not be too worried about UV damage to the dogbone, or corrosion to the biners. Climb away! I do.
Fixed draws on severely overhanging routes are another story. Corrosion may not be too much of a problem if the draws never get wet. But UV damage to the slings/dogbones if worth considering. As with any permanently fixed gear, keep an eye out for excessive wear, and approach them with a bit of skepticism. If you see gear that needs replacing, try to let the local stewards know. Or replace it yourself if possible.
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overlord
Feb 25, 2004, 10:02 PM
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if they are not obviously weakened, i would trust them.
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dynoguy
Feb 25, 2004, 10:05 PM
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How exactly do you tell if they are weakened?
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climbsomething
Feb 25, 2004, 10:07 PM
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This topic has been discussed at much length several times already, but that probly won't stop this from going to at least 5 pages of "lazy sport muffin cheater- weak bitter gumby - booty eyesore- asdfasdfasdf!!!!!!11 " :roll:
Seriously, do a search. It's a gold mine out there.
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skecthballer
Feb 25, 2004, 10:10 PM
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I'd trust them
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abalch
Feb 25, 2004, 10:27 PM
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Which brings us to the question--when do project draws become booty?
There is a route at a small crag in Portland that has had the same draws on it since the fall. There hasn't seemed to be any action on this route in the last couple months, and the person has left six or seven draws attached to the route. I have to question whether the person even remembers that they left these draws behind. So, how long to wait before those draws are considered booty?
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dynoguy
Feb 25, 2004, 10:36 PM
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In reply to: Which brings us to the question--when do project draws become booty? There is a route at a small crag in Portland that has had the same draws on it since the fall. There hasn't seemed to be any action on this route in the last couple months, and the person has left six or seven draws attached to the route. I have to question whether the person even remembers that they left these draws behind. So, how long to wait before those draws are considered booty?
Hey, No highjacking :lol:
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climbingbum
Feb 25, 2004, 10:36 PM
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They never become booty. If you take them, you're a thief. Climb on them, fall on them, lower on them, but don't effin take them.
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abalch
Feb 25, 2004, 10:57 PM
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In reply to: They never become booty. If you take them, you're a thief. Climb on them, fall on them, lower on them, but don't effin take them.
So, as someone said earlier, if you are not comfortable using them, don't clip to them, but you should just leave them forever on the rock. Is a quickdraw left on a bolt inviolate? Can it never be remeoved? I ask only out of coriousity. I can't climb the route in question, and if I did, I doubt I would trust to clip to these draws after them seeing an Oregon winter. All of theat rain, then sun on the dogbones would have likely weakened them by this point. If I could figure out who is climbing this route, I would try to remind them that they have left all this gear on this route.
Again, I ask out of curiousity. It goes hand in hand with respecting people's redpoint attempts. Many people would aggree, if you can tell that a route has yet to see a first free ascent (usually by the red webbing left on the first bolt of a new route) you shouldn't climb it. How about if that route has the red webbing disintegrating off of the first bolt. My question was about trying to reach a consensus of when people would consider a route abandoned?
Let's put it into a different light. If you saw a route that was sewn up with cams and nuts, you would probably think someone was working their project, right? Now, if you came back week after week, and saw no change in the gear(unlikely, because people seem more likely to steal a cam than a draw) would you not start to believe that the gear has been abandoned? A lone draw or piece of gear immediately points to bail gear, and it is booty as soon as the person comes off the route and walks away, but when does multiple pieces become booty?
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climbingbum
Feb 26, 2004, 12:03 AM
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Sorry Abalch,
I think I mis-understood your original post. I thought you wanted to take the draws for your own personal use, and you were posting to get reassurence from other climbers just to clear your conscience... If the situation is that they are not safe, then by all means clean them. Same as coming across a loose bolt. I'll pull it and replace it with a new one at my local crag. Not sure of the ethics at other crags, so I wouldn't touch it, but here it's encouraged.
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jt512
Feb 26, 2004, 2:26 AM
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In reply to: Which brings us to the question--when do project draws become booty?
Never. Period.
-Jay
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dynoguy
Feb 26, 2004, 2:47 AM
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Stop high-jacking my the thread :x . The subject is about wether or not project draws are safe not wether or not they are booty.
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redpoint73
Feb 26, 2004, 6:00 PM
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In reply to: I have to question whether the person even remembers that they left these draws behind. So, how long to wait before those draws are considered booty?
Thats ridiculous.
Would YOU forget about leaving seven shiny hard-earned draws on a sport climb???
OF COURSE NOT!!!!!
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lordjim
Feb 26, 2004, 6:39 PM
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1-2 draws equals booty
3+ equals project
You get bonus karma if you return the booty to it's previous owner.
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