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mandrake
Mar 9, 2004, 8:45 PM
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It had to happen: a nationalistic troll. :roll:
I give it a T5, the troll knows how patriotic most Americans are. OTOH, it's pretty unsubtle and not very witty. Surprised there haven't been more bites, though...
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mnanao
Mar 9, 2004, 8:56 PM
Post #27 of 44
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In reply to: what have americans accomplished in himalaya? i know you guys are among the best in aid climbing and you're so proud of your el cap and similar walls, but i believe the real ground is high himalaya with its altitude, extreme walls, awful weather etc...
In reply to: hmm... i wouldn't even go into my view of america and its society, filled with over-proud-so-patriotic rednecks... sadly, you prove the point of many non-americans...
and then
In reply to: i'm not trying to dis americans
WTF? Are you an idiot?
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slablizard
Mar 9, 2004, 9:44 PM
Post #28 of 44
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In reply to: It had to happen: a nationalistic troll. :roll: I give it a T5, the troll knows how patriotic most Americans are. OTOH, it's pretty unsubtle and not very witty. Surprised there haven't been more bites, though...
"first of all, you coated this post with words like "himalaya" and "accomplishments" in order to dis americans. that is your primary motive here and it comes through your terrible writing like the bad smell of Eastern European food, which is obviously where you are from.
This sound more like an insult that being "patriotic"
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wallwombat
Mar 9, 2004, 11:40 PM
Post #29 of 44
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In reply to: The difficulties of climbing with "altitude" and a "death zone" (as arbitrary and false as that word actually is) is just as stupid a comment as saying that a hard sport route is harder than a hard trad climb.
What exactly are you trying to say here, Sport. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
I'll concede that the media is largely responsible for the phrase 'Death Zone' in their never-ending search for a sensational headline . Never-the-less it has been found that even a well-acclimatised climber placed at 8000 meters or above in warm conditions, with enough food and drink will die in a few days. A lot of research has been done on this subject. Look it up if you want.
In reply to: Yes, the Himalayas are rad, but the 8,000m peaks of the Himalayas are not rad.
That is the funniest comment I have read in a long time. You have got to be kidding. Have you seen the Rupal Face on Nanga Parbat or the south face of Dhauligiri? Have you seen the south face of Annapurna? I dont know what your definition of 'rad' is but they certainly work for me. There is a lot more to the 8000 meter peaks than the standard routes on Everest or Cho Oyu or whatever. There is enormous scope on the 8000 meter peaks for alpine ascents.
In reply to: Yes, American alpinists have done a great deal in the himalayas. Maybe not in terms of peak bagging, or repeating routes in a new fastest time.
In terms of what, then? Speak up.
In reply to: Have you heard of John Bouchard? He's about three or four times the climber of your stupid, lying-about-routes Tomaz Humar.
That is really very funny. I have a mental picture of a climbing version of Derek Zoolander coming out with that one. You must be refering to Tomo Cesen and the controversy surrounding his ascent of the SSE spur of K2. Fair enough - a lot has been written on this subject and there are differing views. He did go on to complete a solo first ascent of the south face of Lhotse ( the then last great problem!) in 1990 which stands in favour of his K2 claims. Tomaz Humar completed the solo first ascent of Dhaulagiri's south face (the next last problem!). As far as I know he has never been accused of lying about his climbs. Let me see. John Bouchard (with Mark Richey) repeated a route on a 6000 meter peak called Shivling that had been first climbed in 1981 by two Australians, a Pom and a Frenchman. Impressive!
You are hearing 'dissing of Americans' where no dissing exists.Relax. Stop being so sensitive. After all,you are supposed to be a big, tough climber.
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overlord
Mar 10, 2004, 10:30 AM
Post #30 of 44
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In reply to: Look how many elite Slovenian alpinists have died over the years.
none that im aware of, at least in himalaya in recent time. the last fatality i know of was of a member of our last anapurna (i believe he was there) expedition and he died due to rokfall while escorting some newbies on Velika Baba near Jezersko, Slovenia. and wasnt elite jet.
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overlord
Mar 10, 2004, 10:43 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Have you heard of John Bouchard? He's about three or four times the climber of your stupid, lying-about-routes Tomaz Humar. That is really very funny. I have a mental picture of a climbing version of Derek Zoolander coming out with that one. You must be refering to Tomo Cesen and the controversy surrounding his ascent of the SSE spur of K2. Fair enough - a lot has been written on this subject and there are differing views. He did go on to complete a solo first ascent of the south face of Lhotse ( the then last great problem!) in 1990 which stands in favour of his K2 claims. Tomaz Humar completed the solo first ascent of Dhaulagiri's south face (the next last problem!). As far as I know he has never been accused of lying about his climbs.
i agree. no one ever contested any of humars ascents, but there was a lot of "controversy" about this (K2) ascent by tomo cesen. btw, he now trains our national sport climbing team.
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nonick
Mar 10, 2004, 11:25 AM
Post #32 of 44
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How can anyone forget the american attempts (1938/39) on K2 - or the first ascent of Nanda Devi with Shipton/ Tillman. I forget the names of the climbers, but these were first class climbs.
John Roskelly also did a great ascent of Nanda Devi.
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micahmcguire
Mar 10, 2004, 11:39 AM
Post #33 of 44
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howsabout Jim Wickwire's highest ever bivi? He had to spend the night a few hundred feet below the summit of K2! He gives a pretty raw description of the ordeal in a National Geographic Article about the first American ascent of K2. Cool stuff.
Anatoli Bourkeen lived in Santa Fe, New Mexico, does that count as American? :wink:
Norman Vaughan lives like five miles from me. He is quite a badass. He climbed the seven summits (including Everest-and a few more in the himalayas) and was one of the earliest explorers of the Antarctic continent. He is almost 100 years old now too. Cool guy.
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micahmcguire
Mar 10, 2004, 11:42 AM
Post #34 of 44
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and wallwombat, the question was phrased in a condecending tone that, while intentional or not, I felt I should address. Still waiting for you to suck my balls (please, they are very lonely).
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wallwombat
Mar 10, 2004, 12:43 PM
Post #35 of 44
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Put them in a vapour barrier sock and go for a jog. You'll be right in the morning.
I still can't believe I'm the only one who mentioned the first ascent of Gasherbrum 1 in 1958. And I'm an Australian.
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jurch
Mar 10, 2004, 10:58 PM
Post #36 of 44
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wow... how did that happen? a simple question and i'm allready half terrorist :) why the hell do you (mandrew) feel so threatened? i don't have any WMDs, you know :))
some of americans have this weird defense mechanism and belief that everyone is just waiting to bomb your precious country... ridiculous. and please let us not get into politics... wrong forum.
someone posted few of my quotes... well, i WASN'T trying to dis you at the beginning... but then mandrew started to act like america is the only country in the world, so...
anyway, NOT trying to fight :))
regards to all...
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deleted
Deleted
Mar 10, 2004, 11:25 PM
Post #37 of 44
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talk about terrorism...that was the biggest hijack of my posting career. all fatalities, no survivors. boom.
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wallwombat
Mar 11, 2004, 4:48 AM
Post #38 of 44
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What in the wide world of sports do you mean? You sounded like a total plonker in your last post and you sound like a total plonker now. The only casualty was your credibility. Work away solidly.
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micahmcguire
Mar 12, 2004, 4:18 AM
Post #39 of 44
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jurch, I just read some more of your obvious anti-american hoopla. go fornicate yourself with something sharp. so I spend every waking minute in pursiute of the almighty dollar do I? I'll wake up at 65 and wonder what my life was about will I? What is so great about your life that, at 65, you will find some kind of justification above and beyond anyone else's? How do you figure you don't suffer from the same monetary desires that all normal people do? You are obviously trying to pick a fight here, and are obviouly very anti-american. you sure do have alot of interesting ideas about us evil americans. Lets go through the generalizations.
1)"what have americans accomplished in himalaya?...you're so proud of your el cap and similar walls, but i believe the real ground is high himalaya"
again I call bullcrap. “The real ground”? By which you mean over 8000 meters? Better not catch you climbing at anything less than 25,000 feet, or you aren’t a “real” climber. There are harder lines in the Chugach Range than many in the Himalayas. Altitude, like every other mountainous feature, complicates things in a unique way, but does not make the climbing any more or less “real” than any other climb.
2) "that 1963 west ridge of yours is really something... the route goes 'over' the ridge and then instead of going up the ridge it goes into that hornbein couloir... avoids all real trouble (yellow band) and technically only touches the west ridge..."
I detect an inferiority complex leading to an attempted pissing match. There are plenty of other mountains, and even more specific climbs than the one you are talking about. Who cares what one group of climbers did on one route? Does that set the bar for all of us? I guess you Slovenians just like to do everything the hard way eh? Good for you.
3) "what kind of life do you americans have since you're most of the time collecting every single dollar available"
go piss up a rope, dickhead. Where does it say Americans are after every dollar available? I think its safe to say that everyone is interested in their own finincial well-being. Its the intelligence with which people pursue those desires that makes the difference. I’m sure none of your countries leaders are wealthy, and no one in your precious country wants to be well-off. Its an absolutely ridiculous generalization. Idiot.
4) "america and its society, filled with over-proud-so-patriotic rednecks... sadly, you prove the point of many non-americans..."
How is that? Is it because we like our country and don’t like taking crap from representatives of other countries? I guess in a country that has only existed since 1991, you wouldn’t know anything about patriotism or social stability. Your country is filled with smelly euro-trash. Oooooo, ouch. I'm telling mommy.
5) i'm not trying to dis americans (even though you're a perfect reason to do so).
Oh I see, so generalizing about all of us in an effort to ridicule one person is not a mockery of us all. OK, Slovenians are all motherloving bastards, by which I mean that only Jurch is a motherloving bastard, not all Slovenians. Go to hell dude.
6) some of americans have this weird defense mechanism and belief that everyone is just waiting to bomb your precious country... ridiculous
I don’t know where this hubris is coming from, but its unfounded. When was anyone worried that everyone was out to bomb America? I didn’t see that on here anywhere. I’m not as worried as you should be.
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jurch
Mar 12, 2004, 11:43 PM
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getting a bit tired of it... emm, i know too many stupid slovenians, definetely. but, unfortunately all the americans i've met (and my friends have) are a bunch of so under-educated guys that hurts. And they see life through money. It's also perfectly clear in your way of life, runned by big companies, social system, foreign politics etc...
BUT, as i said there are many great people too. and even if it seems, i'm not trying to generalize... obviously you don't consider yourself as one, since you have such problems with it...
and about everyone in himalaya... there are a lot of routes, that are better than slovene ones, so... that was just an example (it kind of bugged me when you read american magazines and the 1963 climb is mentioned as the ''best ever''; so i guess i took it a bit personal...)
being patriotic is not bad at all. everyone should love his country. but, i hate a bit your absolute ignorance to other world. whether your politics or average citizen, they mostly think of america as the only country in space and unfortunately act like that...
the best thing would be if one moderator would delete this topic... :)
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micahmcguire
Mar 13, 2004, 1:28 AM
Post #41 of 44
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yeah that'd be particularly convienient for you wouldn't it? your embarassment could simply disappear with this thread. mighty pussified of you, don't you think?
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jurch
Mar 13, 2004, 6:21 PM
Post #42 of 44
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no.... so i don't have to argue with you anymore (or with the other guy...)
god, i've met all sorts of people. the best ones were germans (or nazis, as you would say...), spaniards are great, brits are awesome to talk to... italians are nice, haven't met many people from scandinavian or france, so i can't say much about them; BUT americans... better not say anything at all :) actually, the worst combination is american soldier... i even felt sorry for a person being so limited (however you take)...
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micahmcguire
Mar 13, 2004, 6:48 PM
Post #43 of 44
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oh, nazis as I would say? yeah, I am obtuse enough that WWII and the fall of nazi Germany has still not set in. need I prove my point any further? believe it or not, I've met a damn lot of people too, and been to nearly every country in western europe. so far, you are my least favorite european. congrats. every time you post you prove how ignorant and biased you are against americans. quit speaking asshole, you are just digging your own grave. may I suggest you just piss off.
and no one is forcing you to argue, you pathetically predictable moron
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wallwombat
Mar 14, 2004, 9:35 PM
Post #44 of 44
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Did I mention the 1958 American first ascent of Gasherbrum 1?
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