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corbin
Mar 11, 2004, 2:41 AM
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How do you guys tighten your line?. I believe that ratchets and that sort of stuff have no place in slackline what so ever. But thats just me. Whats your take on this subject, and if you ever have used a ratchet did you like it. What system is used by you?
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wiscoclimbiner
Mar 11, 2004, 3:22 AM
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i will agree with you. they are very costly and have no bussiness in slacklining. useing a 2 biner pully system works just fine.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 11, 2004, 4:47 AM
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While an interesting look at the mentality of climbing, I doubt much useful will come from the debate other than reaffirming however someone feels.
If people always use the gear they've known to love and trust - no matter what evidence is presented - thats classifies it as a belief, just like a religion. (the way of telling is ask someone what it would take to make them change their mind - if facts don't work then it's a belief)
I don't think anyone has much business trying to change other peoples beliefs, it only stands to aggrevate people and use up precious oxygen (or in this case bandwidth and storage space).
On the other hand, if someone has an need for something that "works" with less rigging, less tugging and less climbing gear - me and many others find that they are highly effective. The only difference is a different method of mechanical advantage.
It's common knowledge I make and sell slacklines that use ratchets. I have used about every method commonly concieved to tighten lines and this is what I decided worked best for my needs, as have many others that fall in the backyard slacker catagory.
Pick what fills your need, the only evidence I can present is the weekly thank you letters and emails that I get saying how it's the "easiest to use system on the market by far" (quoted from one of the letters).
Ratchets costly? That I can debate - if you use a 1,300 lb rated 1" one for a 30 foot line it will cost 5-6 bucks each which you can use one or two depending on your need. Or you can go higher end and get 2" for around 15 that can handle 10,000 lbs of tension. With some custom add-ons I make I can tighten a 100 foot line solo without grunting - to me, thats what matters; 15 bucks to do a big line without breaking a sweat.
If your worried about "purity" of the sport, make sure and check out how many times the slackline sport gets slammed (The will slacklines just be another yuppie sport thread) by other climbers as "not a real sport" and just a distraction and not part of the climbing community.
Perhaps that wasted oxygen and bandwith could be best used on something we agree on since we all enjoy the same activity/sport?
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corbin
Mar 12, 2004, 2:19 AM
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Joe,
Im sorry if you were offended. I am just simply stating that ratchets have no place in slackline. If using ratchets works for you, go for it, i could care less. I would never switch over to the using of a ratchet. But thats just me. From what I can see on your site, many of the lines look fairly loose, umm... I posted this thing just to see how other people tightend their lines and the common system used. Primitive, pulley.... dunno what ever you use. Hope this is all ceared up.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 12, 2004, 2:43 AM
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Not offended all - I didn't mean to direct that to anyone in specific. Sorry if I gave that idea. But your statements pretty much exemplify what I was talking about. You've come to love your way of doing it and you enjoy the idea of tradition and purity of only climbing gear on a slackline. You believe that to be superior, and if I quoted off some physical pull ratios and other mathmatics that won't change your mind. - And thats fine with me because I love the sport and want to encourage it any way people can get their fix of webbing walking. Kodoos for you, your enjoying a really cool sport.
I do have to admit I hate getting hassled by the other makers and hardcore traditionalists about "bad karma of ratchets." As though something is magically wrong about using something from the industrail world when it involves anything related to climbing even when a lot of good technology has helped the sport that originally came from such uses (new forging techniques, softer rubber compounds and such).
I tend to prefer longer/tighter lines (65 feet range or so) I just don't have any photos of them on my site since I usually slack solo. It's hard to drag a non-slacker with you just to take photos of big lines, thats why most of the pics are on campus or by my house. I have to admit most of my longer (non-ratchet) setups were pretty unsuccessful since I didn't have pulleys, climbing rope, asenders or a lot of money to dedicate to it during my beginning into the sport.
Here is what some people have said about my setups:
http://www.slacklineexpress.com/gearreviews.htm
I've yet to have anything negative said about them by customers or anyone at my slackline workshops even if they have used all of the different types of setups.
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uncleslackline
Mar 13, 2004, 5:45 AM
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Joe you say you like longer lines, 65 footers?
Well I guess you don't know how you are talking to, because Corbin just became the world record holder with a two hundred footer.
Believe it Joe ratchets are dead! I used to enjoy watching you and Sean go at it, But this all joe all the time is ruining this fourm!
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coldclimb
Mar 13, 2004, 6:31 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but a ratchet will only tighten so far before it wraps up too much slack to continue, right? On my 30 foot line, I can suck up about five feet in the tightening system with ease. I had a thought the other day of just sticking the ratchet on the line with the more primitive system, tightening the line, and then continuing the tightening with the ratchet. Have no clue if this would work, but it would sure make some tight lines if it did. At the moment, without a ratchet, I can just barely get mine to the point where I can jump on it. I'm experimenting with different tightening systems, but I don't happen to have a ratchet, so I've never had a chance to try one.
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corbin
Mar 14, 2004, 5:06 AM
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Haahhaa, 200 footer. naah man, i did a 270-280 footer awhile ago. Thats near the record. dean did a 300+ fooer few years back. I had to tie two lines together. haahah, i would like to see that tightend with a ratchet!!! Probably break. Guessing ratchets hold near 10,000 pounds. The line broke on me, 20 feet above the knot. To not break at the knot, using one time used webbing that took 8400 pounds to pop. (stuffs rated to half the maunfatures say it is) And i was using a 135:1 MA. twas pretty dang cool.
-corbin usinger.
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slackinfl
Mar 14, 2004, 4:02 PM
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I have to agree with uncleslackline. The all Joe all the time is old. You can hardly find a post on here without Joes advice. His posts seem like he wants to help, but I think it may have something to do with that free link to his site everytime someone who needs help reads one of his posts.
Whats up with the black BDU's in most of the pics on your site Joe?
Sorry to join in on the anti joe-anti ratchet thread but you gotta expect it when you give as much advice that goes against what most of the slackers think.
Corbin 280'!! That is bad ass my friend. How high was it?
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corbin
Mar 14, 2004, 5:13 PM
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Wasnt a highline, more like a mid line- 10 feet off the deck. I had to tie two lines together, one was a 200 foot line and the other was a 70 foot line. Im gonna take lines like that up higher this summer.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 14, 2004, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: Correct me if I'm wrong, but a ratchet will only tighten so far before it wraps up too much slack to continue, right?
Sorry for the delay, I just got back from three day trip to Arkansas.
Yes, your exactly right - thats where my add-ons that I mention come into play and your the first person to ask about it.
You can fill up the spool which will get a 50 fairly tight, then lock off the line using the slide lock, release the ratchet but the slide lock holds the line in place. That lets you slickly get another "bite" with the ratchet and keep going until you get it full again. Wash Rinse Repeat.
The reduced diameter of the spool by resetting it also has a benifit of providing an additional mechanical advantage boost, making it easier to set.
Sets a 60-70 (and much longer) in just a couple minutes as tight as you'd want. I got nervous when I set a line around the 100-115 feet mark that was only 7 feet up but it did it, of course staying on it in the middle was a whole other ball game. I gotta work on that. Your mileage may vary.
Here's a page describing it with a photo: http://www.slacklineexpress.com/slidelock.htm
I'm planning on offering those speciailized slide locks preassembled but I haven'tt got a steady supply so they have went to all my friends first. I hope to offer them reasonably soon as I have a bunch on order but they are incredibly slow to get. I'm not worried about selling anything, so if you can find those locks go for it, they work fantastic.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 14, 2004, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: Whats up with the black BDU's in most of the pics on your site Joe?
I work in them, I climb in them and I slack in them, they are comfy, have side pockets, very durable and I can get them really cheap.
I got hooked on them while being required to wear them for four years. Black just passes as dress pants and "stylish" where I work. Why not PM me about that?
As for the other stuff in the thread, I get harped at for either not being "innovative" since lots of other people have done it first AND for not doing things the "usual way" so I'm seeing a conflict there on trying to make certain people happy.
If my advise goes against what you think, then PLEASE post up and share. Thats what a forum is for isn't it. I would love it if more long time slacker gurus would participate on the board more in a reasonable manner, I wouldn't feel like I should post my thoughts to answer other peoples questions as they would be a better source of information. I'm no expert, I just read a lot and try to help when I see a question. I like seeing fresh info and techniques.
If "ratchets are dead" then why do so many people buy them and say they love them, after using other methods? - Ah, thats a whole other thread so I'll drop it....
If someone wants to correct me on technical info, fantastic - it means I get to learn something important. If someone wants to be so competitive that I quit making kits, thats ok, then I'd be down to 2 jobs and grad school instead of 3. However, if they want to aruge about a belief about how something should be done, I really don't want to touch it as I try to respect other's beliefs. Thats kind of like aruging politics or religion; lots of oxygen gets used but almost everyone ends up where they started, no one happy and all sides absolutely convinced they are right.
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corbin
Mar 14, 2004, 11:48 PM
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"I got nervous when I set a line around the 100-115 feet mark that was only 7 feet up but it did it, of course staying on it in the middle was a whole other ball game"
Imagine- 140 feet out- looking out onto another 140 feet go. with a fattie beefed up knot to pass. Shoulders tired, line is "flopping" from side to side screwing with your balance.... multiply your 100-115 foot line, by three... heh heh....
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slacklinejoe
Mar 15, 2004, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: "I got nervous when I set a line around the 100-115 feet mark that was only 7 feet up but it did it, of course staying on it in the middle was a whole other ball game" Imagine- 140 feet out- looking out onto another 140 feet go. with a fattie beefed up knot to pass. Shoulders tired, line is "flopping" from side to side screwing with your balance.... multiply your 100-115 foot line, by three... heh heh....
Trust me, I'm working on it. My summer goal is to get at least semi-confident on a 100+ line by the end of summer. I think thats reasonable given how much time I dedicate to the sport.
BTW: why not use a solid 300' line or so? Sure it uses a whole spool but at least you don't have splices.
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organic
Mar 15, 2004, 12:00 AM
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I went to the hardware store and bought a ratchet for around $13. I can setup a slackline with little to no energy in about 1 minute. I do not setup long lines or care to. I do not setup highlines or care to. So why should I use anything else? If you do not have a permanent place for a slackline and it is just you and some buddies goofing off why the heck would you not want to own a webbing ratchet?
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lunchbox
Mar 15, 2004, 1:34 AM
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Hey guys I just bought a slack jack for my home setup here in Phoenix, it has a 6:1 mechanical advantage, I think its a really slick device. If you want to see pictures of my setup send me an email address and I'll reply with an attachment. I can't figure out how to insert an image here.
Scott
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corbin
Mar 15, 2004, 6:12 AM
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Yeah, I have heard that is a really cool peice. Develpoed by scott balcom. Post up some pictures. Im kinda unsure how it self locks on it self? I hear good things about those tho.
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rngrchad
Mar 15, 2004, 4:56 PM
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I use a Petzl FIXE pulley in my slackline setup. It is used in a 3:1 system with the other 2 components being oval biner's. This has been the best thing I've found, and works well with a 45 ft line. Two people together can get it really taught. I know, I doubt this would work with any more than 70 ft of webbing but most people don't need that much line anyways :)
http://www.petzl.com/petzl/Produit?Produit=351&Conseil=&Activite=&Famille=&SousFamille=&News=
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lunchbox
Mar 16, 2004, 1:48 PM
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Hey Corbin, I'd like to post a picture but I don't know how. I've seen other posts with the .jpg right in the eamil but it looks like you need to link it to a website, in .html? Anyhow of you give me an email address I can send you .pdf or give me some good beta on how to post, could use some tips on learning how to balance on my s/l too.
Scott
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corbin
Mar 17, 2004, 2:48 AM
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Lunchbox- prety cool a frame setup you have there. I like the slack jack also, i get how it brakes on it self now too. pretty ingenious. as for the balance- just have fun with it, dont take it all that seriously, dont get frustrated, one foot in front of the other, one step at a time, learn from the form of other people, surf the line, build confidence..... dunno.. having fun is the key part of it all though. good luck.
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metoliusshawn
Mar 17, 2004, 3:07 AM
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ss
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uncleslackline
Mar 17, 2004, 3:54 AM
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MA Rules !!!
Once you truly understand the principles of MA. Ratchets, come-a- longs, truck tightening of lines, are absolutly useless!
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theturtle
Mar 17, 2004, 5:28 AM
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In reply to: the slack jack is a well thought out pully system and works very well. if i was going to recommend a pully system that was cheap, well made and safe for setting up smaller lines the slack jack would be the one.
For those of you that don’t know, a “smaller line” for metoliussean is 70 feet or less. He’s also one of the few slackers that actually knows how to rig highlines and walks them, so you can believe he knows what he’s talking about.
The Slack-Jack IS the best tool for tightening lines less than 100 feet, however the stock model comes with a medium length pull strap, which can tighten lines up to around 50 feet. The solution is a longer pull strap, which can be easily ordered from the manufacturer, Slack Daddy Slackline Tools. Not For Climbing Slackline Equipment has been working closely with Slack Daddy on the development of this tool. We have an extra long pull strap and have used the Slack-Jack to tighten over 100 Slacklines, some as long as 100 feet.
The question “how do you tension a slackline?” has finally been answered. The Slack-Jack was designed specifically for Slackline tensioning and there is no system of pulleys, or ratcheting device from Home Depot that works as efficiently or as safely for tensioning a recreational length Slackline.
The Slack-Jack is currently available on www.notforclimbing.com, and will soon be available at your local climbing shop as well.
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slacklinejoe
Mar 17, 2004, 5:47 AM
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No one argues that. If we all had the cash we'd all have some sort of really nice high ratio pulley system if we can handle the bulk for our purpose.
However, for those of us "mere mortals" other methods are cheap, quick and effective at letting us get our slack on. I think the big sticking point here is that there is a line somewhere in there that has hardcore slackers and riggers drawing a line of seperation from those who just enjoy the sport.
Experience also becomes a factor for people new to the sport with no rigging experience.
I've gotten a lot of non-climbers into the sport (about 30-50+) so how do they fit into the picture? They want to try it and want me to teach them how.
Should I tell them "No, go away until you can climb at least a 5.9 and understand Chongo's hauling system" ? Should I tell a new climber they have to drop over 100 to 250 to get into the sport "properly"?
I know a fairly hard core boulderer who used to wire walk specifically because he didn't have the cash to buy a "proper" slackline until he decided to get one of mine.
Heck, the only reason I started making my own specifically because I couldn't justify the expense for the ones on the market already and I had next to zero rigging experience at the time. $23 (or less) for a easy to use 30' line gets awefully tempting at that state.
Highliners and hard core slackers of course can most likely justify buying a "proper" line (or the components) because they are so committed to the pursuit of the sport and most likely already have lots of climbing gear and experience. (People buy a Gri-Gri even though they already had a belay device and could get around without one?)
I'm not real sure where I'm going with this, other than saying that I agree with you to a point and I can see why you'd say what you say. I don't think most hard core slackers or highliners are even interested in slacking on a line that was set with a ratchet (even if you remove the tightening system from the line) - but a lot of us backyard slackers on the other hand have the same addiction with a lot less emphasis on how we get our fix (think of it as drinking cheap beer).
Cheers,
- Joe
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