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angry
Mar 12, 2004, 3:21 PM
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Maybe this has already been done, if it has...apologies.
I am not speaking about climbing comps. I am talking about hanging out at the crags and climbing. While it is certain that climbing requires athletisicm, mental focus, and training, there is no blatent competition. While there is spray and number chasing it isn't that important. If I were to go play a game of bastketball, even just for fun and among friends, we would keep score.
The "gaming" aspect of climbing is lacking, I believe this to be a good thing. It is what keeps me sane and keeps me motivated to climb. If climbing were a sport or a game, its purity would be lost, and thus much of its appeal. I hear climbing referred to as a sport and as a game, I think neither is true. Most sports have a competetive pinnicle, the best are the top competitors. I race a bike and long to have the legs of top European pros, to be able to win. Most climbers (that I know), couldn't care less about comps, they'd love to be able to crank hard but it's not about winning. It seems that the pinnicle of our sport (no pun intended) is intrinsic, self satisfying, and non-comparative. That sets climbing apart.
These are just some of my thoughts, and unlike most of my posts, there is a slight chance I am wrong. I'd like to hear others opinions on this.
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thinksinpictures
Mar 12, 2004, 3:24 PM
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Dude, people call chess a sport. It's competitive, but not athletic. People call running a sport, even if they don't compete. Climbing is climbing. Beyond that, it's no more or no less than you want it to be.
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curt
Mar 12, 2004, 3:30 PM
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I consider climbing to be a sport. I think we do "keep score" in a way and that competition with yourself and others you climb with is a central part of the activity. People (8a.nu and others) keep track of who does what and there does emerge a "ranking" of who is best.
Long before climbing competitions became popular, Jerry Moffatt said (in the 1984 movie "On the Rocks") that "competition is good in climbing. Its really great when you can burn somebody off."
By the way, scoring per se is not what makes something a sport in my mind. Golf, darts, bowling etc. all keep score--but are more games than sports to me. There's my $.02.
Curt
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usmc_2tothetop
Mar 12, 2004, 3:32 PM
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I think a sport can be a hobby. But I don't think it's a game. It all depends on peoples defenition of sport I guess.
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dirtineye
Mar 12, 2004, 3:34 PM
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I agree that for some, climbing is not about competition, at least, not competition with other climbers.
Others try to make it into a comp though. I think they are missing the best part of climbing by doing this.
I don't really like this analogy much, but here it is anyway, for those who have to keep score:
The only 'score' that matters in climbing is, you vs the rock. IF you go home in one piece, you win. If you get hurt or die, the rock wins.
In reply to: It seems that the pinnicle of our sport (no pun intended) is intrinsic, self satisfying, and non-comparative.
Nice way of puting it.
Anyone that thinks chess is not a sport has never played in competitive USCF or FIDE chess tournaments LOL.
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usmc_2tothetop
Mar 12, 2004, 3:35 PM
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I think curt has the best point
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climbingmusician
Mar 12, 2004, 3:36 PM
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[indigo]There are quite a few "sports" that shouldn't be considered a sport this is definately a sport much more than football for golf(sorry to those of you who like it) but as far as i'm conserned it is definately a sport no matter what. Heck climbers are more in shape than most althletes. :) :wink:[/indigo]
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curt
Mar 12, 2004, 3:38 PM
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Oh, and..............Chess is NOT a sport.
Curt
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j_ung
Mar 12, 2004, 3:38 PM
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I ride for the pure enjoyment of it: the freedom of movement, the wind in my face, etc. But biking is still a sport.
(PS - Hey, did you ever gain any weight from drinking better beer?)
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boulder_boy
Mar 12, 2004, 3:39 PM
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if climbing isnt a sport then I dont know what is
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diesel___smoke
Mar 12, 2004, 3:40 PM
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In reply to: Long before climbing competitions became popular, Jerry Moffatt said (in the 1984 movie "On the Rocks") that "competition is good in climbing. Its really great when you can burn somebody off." Curt
Hmm, not to give you a hard time Curt, but...
"Climbing for speed records will probably become more popular, a mania which has just begun. Climbers climb not just to see how fast and efficiently they can do it, but far worse, to see how much faster and more efficiently they are than a party which did the same climb a few days before. The climb becomes secondary, no more important than a racetrack. Man is pitted against man." — Yvon Chouinard.
Just throwing another point of view in...
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dirtineye
Mar 12, 2004, 3:41 PM
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In reply to: Oh, and..............Chess is NOT a sport. Curt
Do you play competitive chess Other Curt?
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andy_reagan
Mar 12, 2004, 3:41 PM
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its like anything else in life. Climbing will attract competitive people who do want to keep "score", but will also attract more laid back people who look at it as a lifestyle.
I have a friend who golfs 3-4 times a week, he practices his swing, has a mini putting green at his home, but still views golf playing as a lifestyle choice, not a sport. This is very similar to myself who climbs 3-4 times a week, practices my technique, and have a hangboard in my room. I view climbing as a lifestyle choice (and a damn fun one at that). :D
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anfbymyrock
Mar 12, 2004, 3:48 PM
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In the same way racing "sports" are timed but not necessarily scored (swimming a 400 in 6:30 mins, running a mile in 8 mins, etc.), climbs are rated to give the competitor as well as the onlookers a system in which to categorize progress/rank.
Essentially, climbing could be considered an individual sport the same way running, swimming, biking, or whatever could be. Whoever is climbing is putting their body in motion for the sake of competition, whether that be with themselves or with someone else ("they just did that climb? I can totally flash that...I've gotta try it!").
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crazygirl
Mar 12, 2004, 3:49 PM
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there are lots of sports you can do without keeping score, or being competitive.
swimming, skiing, biking, surfing
:roll:
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drkodos
Mar 12, 2004, 3:51 PM
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Sport is defined as ANYTHING done for recreative purposes.
Climbing is a sport. It is not sporting.
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aklimerguy
Mar 12, 2004, 3:54 PM
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What difference does it make?...Sport, game, hobby...Who cares?! How about we just climb and have fun!
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murf
Mar 12, 2004, 3:54 PM
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In reply to: Sport is defined as ANYTHING done for procreative purposes. Climbing is a sport. It is not sporting.
I always knew sex was a sport.
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curt
Mar 12, 2004, 3:54 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Oh, and..............Chess is NOT a sport. Curt Do you play competitive chess Other Curt?
No. But I play competitive darts. Chess and darts are both games to me. Golf might be somewhere in between. Why? Because to me the true difference between a sport and a game has always been the physical aspect. Here's my definition.
To achieve or participate at the elite level of a sport, extreme strength and physical conditioning is required. Climbing fits this definition, so do gymnastics, basketball, baseball and most other things commonly called sports. However, it is theoretically possible to be a great chess player and weigh 300 pounds and/or be 80 yeras old--same thing with darts, which you can play with a pint in one hand.
Curt
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cutiger
Mar 12, 2004, 3:56 PM
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"There are only 3 real sports: bull-fighting, car racing and mountain climbing. All the others are mere games."
— Hemingway.
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drkodos
Mar 12, 2004, 3:58 PM
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curt, by definition, games are sport.
The definition of:
sport
1. to play or frolic
2. to divert or amuse.
3 ANY activity or experience that gives enjoyment or recreation, pastime, diversion.
4. fun; play
5. a thing joked about
6. a gambler
7. a person who has a sportsmanlike or sproting characteristics.
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oldsalt
Mar 12, 2004, 4:04 PM
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I surfed the North Shore one season and the East Coast of Florida for many years. I entered a competition when I was younger, and I can't remember where I placed. I was a competition judge later, but wised up.
Surfing is not about competition for the vast majority of surfers. My best days are not documented in films or magazines, but d*mn I've had some days. Surfing, skateboarding, and climbing are at least three very similar lifestyle sports. You have to be "different" in the head somehow to have the need to do them when no one is watching.
Personally, forget the stars, the champions, and just climb and worry about light or dark beer after. Enjoy the sight of ripped upper bodies and backup your rappels.
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jgrierson
Mar 12, 2004, 4:04 PM
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[quote="curt"]In reply to: In reply to: Oh, and..............Chess is NOT a sport. Curt :shock: To achieve or participate at the elite level of a sport, extreme strength and physical conditioning is required. :shock: Climbing fits this definition, so do gymnastics, basketball, baseball and most other things commonly called sports. However, it is theoretically possible to be a great chess player and weigh 300 pounds and/or be 80 yeras old--same thing with darts, which you can play with a pint in one hand. Curt
Good points Curt, In the UK darts is considered a sport!! I wouldn't say that extreme strength and physical conditioning is required. Unless of course you are talking about the players livers!!
There is one UK darts champion who's warm up before a competition involves drinking 25 beers and 3 shots of brandy, nice :)
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curt
Mar 12, 2004, 4:07 PM
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In reply to: curt, by definition, games are sport. The definition of: sport 1. to play or frolic 2. to divert or amuse. 3 ANY activity or experience that gives enjoyment or recreation, pastime, diversion. 4. fun; play 5. a thing joked about 6. a gambler 7. a person who has a sportsmanlike or sproting characteristics.
Well, then you're really saying that games and sport are synonyms, because the definition of game is:
1) A pastime
2) A competitive activity or sport
3) An organized athletic program or contest
To me they are different.
Curt
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drkodos
Mar 12, 2004, 4:11 PM
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They are synonymous. Correct.
I agree though, that the words have taken on bastardized and differnet meanings, but it is important to not have "personal" definitions of words.
If we cannot come to agreement to what single words mean, that it is impossible to understand more complex thoughts when words are strung together in sentences.
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