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climbingbetty22
Apr 8, 2004, 1:20 PM
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I was reading this thread over in another forum about how people's social life has changed since taking up climbing. The general and repeated response is that they don't spend nearly as much time and money on stuff like movies and shopping, etc. They live a more simplistic life, generally free of the rat race to gather new, bigger, better things.
But here is the question I had...are you really less materialistic if you're a climber? Speaking only in gross generalities, most climbers pine after a shiny new set of cams or the newest soft shell from Arc'teryx or whatever. I mean, I've read posts where folks brag about having nearly 100 cams (no disrespect to them).
It seems like in reality, we are just as materialistic as we ever were, but some of us maybe get self-righteous about it because the things they acculumate and desire are atypical of what society tells us we should be desiring. (And I feel I can make that statement because at times I fit into this category as well.)
Just my 2 cents.
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dirtineye
Apr 8, 2004, 1:23 PM
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4k bucks of climbing gear and an old van (you can live in it haha, well sort of) to get to crags in does not even come close to a 500k home and a 90k vehicle.
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mazzystr
Apr 8, 2004, 2:39 PM
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very true dirtineye.
as of myself, i've been minimalising my life for the past 3yrs...i now live with a coworker and near all of my belongings will fit in a 4foot cubic box. i've found myself not penny-pinching the dumb things in life like passing on a box of girl scout cookies but instead passing on a nights worth of drinking at the bar. the only area i have trouble with materialism is in automobiles. i drive an audi and look down on people who drive fords and gms. cookie cutter cars for cookie cutter people is what i've always said. even that is being chipped away. i'm having trouble parting with expensive luxury vehicles...i'd really like to drop off the grid next summer for 6month road trip. the car just needs to get stolen or wrecked... *grins*
to the 100cams thing....gee i bet cams taste real good when one is hungry but has no money for food. it was prolly a lawyer or a doctor anyways, the type of person that buys shit then throws it in your face. look what iiiiiiiii got!
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moeman
Apr 9, 2004, 2:16 AM
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In reply to: to the 100cams thing....gee i bet cams taste real good when one is hungry but has no money for food. it was prolly a lawyer or a doctor anyways, the type of person that buys s--- then throws it in your face. look what iiiiiiiii got!
Or maybe he actually uses those cams. A big wall climber perhaps? Or maybe someone who climbs in Indian Creek a lot, where you can need 5 or moreor some sizes. Throw in some oddball cams (a set of hybrid aliens, etc), and your cam count can add up quick.
There is a difference between climber materialism and standard materialism. Most people say oooh I wan those shoes, that car, that house, etc not becuase they need it--what they have now fnctions just as well-- but becuase they want to show it off, to look good. But climbers (usually) buy things for functional reasons. I want that set of Micro Stoppers so I can protect myself better on trad routes, I want that Reverso to streamline my multi-pitch belays, I want that pair of V10's so I can really pull down on roof problems, I want the 0 degree down bag so I don't freeze my butt off when I go winter camping, I want that ultralight-weight tent so I don't kill myself on the hike in. The list goes on. While the gear-headedness can get out of hand sometimes, usually ouyr materialism is about function, not fashion. We seek new and better gear to help us go higher and farther on our adventures. Its not just shallow materialism; its about aiding our experiance.
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jpearl
Apr 9, 2004, 2:58 AM
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Materialism, I think, is more subjective than standard. It varies from person to person and lifestyle to lifestyle. I personally feel no more materialistic as a climber than I was as a cyclist or speedskater. I do, however, feel more materialistic living in New York City's corporate battlezone than I ever did living in a chill, personable place like Israel.
Then again, we climbers in general need less material goods on average to to do our sport (addiction!) than say a Skier or Mountain Biker, but we need a lot more material goods than say a Runner or Yoga practicianer. Still, to the uninformed average bystander, a person with a shiny SUV topped off with a roofrack full of skis and snowboards might appear more "materialistic" than the owner of a shiny SUV parked at the bottom of a crag next to a guy belaying a climber.
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crazygirl
Apr 9, 2004, 3:00 AM
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In reply to: I was reading this thread over in another forum about how people's social life has changed since taking up climbing. The general and repeated response is that they don't spend nearly as much time and money on stuff like movies and shopping, etc. They live a more simplistic life, generally free of the rat race to gather new, bigger, better things.
not me, i'm still in a rat race to gather bigger things
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jumpingrock
Apr 9, 2004, 3:07 AM
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Some climbers are materialistic. Some climbers are not.
Some people are materialistic. Some people are not.
That's the truth of it. You can't stereotype either climbers or people. And this "Climbers are more functionally materialistic" is crap. The fact is that climbing in it's base case is a very cheap sport. But those of us who have money will spend it. Some people who spent the money to become a Doctor or a Lawyer will spend the money earned to have the best gear and likely buy a nice house and a serious TV and the like.
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dirtineye
Apr 9, 2004, 3:53 AM
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In reply to: Some climbers are materialistic. Some climbers are not. Some people are materialistic. Some people are not. That's the truth of it. You can't stereotype either climbers or people. And this "Climbers are more functionally materialistic" is crap. The fact is that climbing in it's base case is a very cheap sport. But those of us who have money will spend it. Some people who spent the money to become a Doctor or a Lawyer will spend the money earned to have the best gear and likely buy a nice house and a serious TV and the like.
Oh come now, what would RC.com be without the stereotyping taht goes on here? IF you can't judge someone you've never met by a few stupid posts on a stupid message board, what good is it?
What we need is MORE stereotyping and LESS knwledge in our efforts to make meaningless judgements about other people! That will get somethign done around here.
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curt
Apr 9, 2004, 4:00 AM
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Materialism? It makes no difference if you are rich or poor -
as long as you have a bunch of money. :D
Curt
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angry
Apr 9, 2004, 4:54 AM
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Climbers are a marketing group. Certain companies do research on what climbers want and what we will buy. Then they determine the highest price we'll pay for it. The whole profit margin vs quanitity comparison.
We might not feel materialistic but we have been brought up in staff meetings. REI or EMS is sadly not much different than Soundtrack or Best Buy. Different audience, different product, same goal.
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chalkdustpwr
Apr 9, 2004, 5:15 AM
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yeah, materialism sucks, but materialism is what makes the world go round. I've read some of those old forums about materialism, but i don't think it's about how they became less materialistic, it' about how their priorities have changed. people grow, people change.
would you like me to get even more philosophical?
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atg200
Apr 9, 2004, 5:33 AM
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i like to live a good comfortable life with the things i want to make me happy. i really don't much care whether or not that makes you think i am materialistic.
i have about 60-70 cams - i use all of them on a regular basis in the desert.
i own a new toyota tacoma - i love it. don't have smoke pouring out of the clutch like i did with my last subaru.
i drink very expensive scotch and tequila, and smoke good cigars. too bad you can't, eh?
i also climb 4-5 days a week nowadays.
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curt
Apr 9, 2004, 5:43 AM
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In reply to: i drink very expensive scotch and tequila, and smoke good cigars. too bad you can't, eh?
Oh, but I do. I do. I do I do. I do.
In reply to: i also climb 4-5 days a week nowadays.
OK, I don't do that. Haha.
Curt
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euroford
Apr 9, 2004, 6:13 PM
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i've thought a good bit about this, and came to a conclusion a long time ago that i think of myself as being materialistic, without being superficial. i'll gladly admit, i make pretty decent money and spend it on things that i want. i don't think these things make me a better person, or that i can use them to show off to poeple, but i do understand that i gather great personal enjoyment from all of my rather indulgent expenditures. i would definitly include climbing in the same list as my audiophile/home theater system, salt water reef aquarium and large home.
i feel bad for allot of poeple who constantly seam to chase thier tales trying to find enjoyment from excess expenditures while plunging themselves into debt and then they never really seam to have the time to enjoy the things they work so hard for. i consider myself very lucky to have a job i love which gives me the time and money to enjoy the things i love. and i give myself a large pat on the back for being able to provide myself and my wife with a lavish home in the city and the nice things inside it while maintaining almost zero debt and high security.
i've definitly not ever understood the 'dirtbag climber lifestyle', it seams so 1 dimensional. sure climbing is great, but it takes more than that to fill your life up. i'm sure a couple years of slacking would be great fun, but where does it leave you afterword??
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overlord
Apr 9, 2004, 6:21 PM
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im not a materialist until it comes to climbing gear.
then i wont look at the pricetag if i want something.
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thrillseeker05
Apr 9, 2004, 6:29 PM
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:twisted: I think everyone here is a consumer of materialistic obsession and those that claim not to be are just living in a façade.
You see no matter what activity you chose you still need possessions..
Even if you claim you are so simple that your entire life fits in your Van. The mere fact that you own and drive a van shows your own weakness to materialism.. why not walk?
I too am in the same boat.. daydreaming of my next purchase. I thrive in my hypocrisy of desire and need.
We all do.. it’s just the way it is.
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calamity_chk
Apr 9, 2004, 8:41 PM
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"you know that we are liv-ing in a material world, and i am a material girl"
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fredo
Apr 9, 2004, 9:01 PM
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From a climbing stand point, if I need something I buy it. Most other things I scimp on. I have my demons like everyone else but they may be less materialistic. eg. I spent $6 last week on carousel rides with my little girl. Yeah she is two and really likes the "horseies" so it was no big deal. The odd thing is that I walked 3 blocks from the free lot rather than pay the $0.50 to park for an hour right next to the merry go round. To me it made sense, but maybe not for others....
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padge
Apr 9, 2004, 10:48 PM
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All climbers are dirty, long greasy haired, two dollar poncho wearing, exastentialists who carry around copies of Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintainance, and the Tao Te Ching. And have no Desire but to wake up face down in the dirt next to the fire and the chair they fell out of the night before in the sun cave site at Hidden Valley Campground, all they have to look foreward to is stumbling through the desert with a porta-bed on their back in a stoned haze.
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fredo
Apr 10, 2004, 2:29 AM
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In reply to: All climbers are dirty, long greasy haired, two dollar poncho wearing, exastentialists who carry around copies of Zen and the Art of Motorcyle Maintainance, .
I did not really like that book. Granted, I read it some time ago and was not as "mature in years" as I am now. Made some good points but it did not seem to resonate with me like it did with some others I know.....
Now ...Desert Solitare, The Book of Sand and House of the Dead..those rocked my world
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elemeno
Apr 10, 2004, 2:48 AM
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Desert solitaire good
Mormon doctors bad
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fredo
Apr 10, 2004, 3:47 AM
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In reply to: Desert solitaire good Mormon doctors bad
Not sure what you mean by Morman doctors bad (at least with regrd to the books)...Book of Sand, Jorge Luis Borges collection of short stories..House of the Dead by Dostoyesvky??? Or is that the Zen and the Art of thing..like I mentioned it has been while :D
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danooguy
Apr 10, 2004, 4:29 AM
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I'd like to buy a Jews harp. I had one once. I always wanted to look up that kid from Deliverance and make an album with him. Then I could give him my share of the profits and he could move to the city and buy a pair of shoes and Lexus.
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wildtrail
Apr 10, 2004, 5:19 AM
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In reply to: But here is the question I had...are you really less materialistic if you're a climber? Speaking only in gross generalities, most climbers pine after a shiny new set of cams or the newest soft shell from Arc'teryx or whatever. I mean, I've read posts where folks brag about having nearly 100 cams (no disrespect to them).
Yes, but it is money that has been better spent. Instead on purchasing wasteful things like a huge TV that you don't need or some stupid $400 watch, you are purchasing material items for a specific, more useful purpose. One may brag about having 100 cams, but at least he/she is using said item for a real purpose of enjoying life and protecting life at the same time, instead of sitting on his/her ass channel surfing. Everyone is materialistic in some way or another.
In reply to: It seems like in reality, we are just as materialistic as we ever were, but some of us maybe get self-righteous about it because the things they acculumate and desire are atypical of what society tells us we should be desiring. (And I feel I can make that statement because at times I fit into this category as well.) Just my 2 cents.
That's a good point, but anything "atypical of what society tells us" is a good thing. It's proof of a person with a thinking brain, rather than just another corporate drone buying Nike shoes and watching "American Idol" eating Pringles drinking Coca-Cola. Know what I mean?
I know I'm materialistic, but the things I purchase (gear, golf clubs, backpacking equipment, fishing equipment, and other travel oriented/outdoorsy things) let's me really experience life. It's pretty much the same with everyone on this site. It's one of the common bonds of being climbers. We aren't those Lexus SUV/BMW in the driveway, American Idol watching, go to Disney World because they say that's a real vacation idiots. I'm not saying we are better (are we?), we're just not as much of societal drones.
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