|
craig_climber
Apr 8, 2004, 8:42 PM
Post #1 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2004
Posts: 71
|
I was talking to a friend the other day at the gym. He had been climbing at our local crag a few days earlier and saw the following occur.
A father was teaching his son to climb. The kid was about 12. The father was allowing his son to climb an 80 foot wall without a rope. I believe it was a 5.4 climb. My friend did intervene.
A couple questions: Would you have intervened? (I hope so)
What the hell is wrong with people? :shock:
|
|
|
|
|
cratercreator
Apr 8, 2004, 8:51 PM
Post #2 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 38
|
I think it's poor judgment for a parent.
It represents climbers in a bad way.
Some might consider this abusive.
But, poor judgment or not I believe that this man should become more familiar with the dangers of climbing, but privately. This man should never be insulted or corrected in front of his children. It takes away from the whole respect. Once I figured out my parents weren't always right I questioned everything, and have done so ever since. This could break the foundation that this kid has. With out firm foundation he'll sure be a climber (metaphoricly speeking) for the rest of his life.
Sometimes I carry out strange scenarios while typing. When I look back I go WTF?
|
|
|
|
|
hellclimber
Apr 8, 2004, 9:02 PM
Post #3 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 205
|
Interfere and consider calling child protection service would probably be my choice of action. Having 12 year old kids free soloing seems like something every sane person would understand is nuts. Even non-experienced climbers should get this. You don't have to be a climber to understand the concept of gravity. If we are talking a scramble and not grade 5 climbing, I would leave them alone.
hellclimber
|
|
|
|
|
sandbag
Apr 8, 2004, 9:06 PM
Post #4 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 1443
|
last time i looked this was America not Amerika, and unless he forced the kid to go and solo this, just butt out. Youre the type of people that introduced gloves and helmets for kids on bicycles that still have the training wheels attached and even then would require a speed governor to keep them from attaining 3MPH. Lighten up.
|
|
|
|
|
hellclimber
Apr 8, 2004, 9:17 PM
Post #5 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 205
|
In reply to: ... blablabla America is so great and everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves, their children etc... Lighten up.
Ehm... first time I have been called a safety freak ever :roll: Comparing free soloing with biking, I guess you are talking a 1200cc motorbike (long live stupid comparisons) and as far as I know kids aren't allowed to ride them... even in your free America (with a C not to be confused with all the other horrible surrounding countries :P ). Not wanting to be part of a flame fest here I'll refrain from posting anything else in this thread.
hellclimber
|
|
|
|
|
climberchic
Apr 8, 2004, 9:20 PM
Post #6 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2000
Posts: 2077
|
How far up was he on the wall?
Is it possible your friend saw the kid climbing on the 80-foot wall but was not very far up?
I've seen this happen before and the parent will have the kid get down if they climb too high...
|
|
|
|
|
sandbag
Apr 8, 2004, 9:24 PM
Post #7 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 1443
|
In reply to: In reply to: ... blablabla America is so great and everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want to themselves, their children etc... Lighten up. Ehm... first time I have been called a safety freak ever :roll: Comparing free soloing with biking, I guess you are talking a 1200cc motorbike (long live stupid comparisons) and as far as I know kids aren't allowed to ride them... even in your free America (with a C not to be confused with all the other horrible surrounding countries :P ). Not wanting to be part of a flame fest here I'll refrain from posting anything else in this thread. hellclimber
If youre going to quote, then please dont waste time paraphrasing with bullsh*t i didnt say, or even imply. You extoll the virtue of not allowing personal responsibility, you want to 'help' the people that cannot help themselves. I think the comparison i made was closer to a tortured analogy but your rebut by far is more torturous to read, much less respond to, but C'est la vie, ill pour jet fuel onto the flame fest......
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Apr 8, 2004, 9:30 PM
Post #8 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
...I'm interested what you would think of this? I let my 12 year old daughter boulder a 30-35' V4 problem with a topout? I was apprehensive about it to say the least.
...thoughts?
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
flechenbones
Apr 8, 2004, 9:31 PM
Post #9 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 46
|
He was right to say something. Injuries or deaths at the crag reflects poorly on the community and can result in access issues. I saw someone once who was letting his son try to walk out on a steep and very loose slope to the edge of a cliff at the grand canyon just to pick up his sisters hat that blew off in a gust. I told the dad to buy her another hat and he realized it was stupid and stopped his son part way out. People just don't think sometimes.
|
|
|
|
|
sandbag
Apr 8, 2004, 9:37 PM
Post #11 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 1443
|
(backs up his tanker truck of acetylene and liquid oxygen to prepare for the fun to erupt)
:P
(mental note: in html the <<>> dont show the original text you intended)
|
|
|
|
|
cin
Apr 8, 2004, 9:59 PM
Post #12 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 105
|
Tori Allen's parents watched her climb before she could walk. She would also go over 100ft in a tree chasing after her pet monkey! Do you think she was ever roped in?!!
Maybe this kid is a gonzo climber?
Maybe the parent was really an uncle who hates the little bastard-love-child of his sister and his best friend?
We need more of the story to really pass judgement on the parents.
Either way cratercreator had a good point and that is to handle the subject with some tact. This "parent" needs to be treated with respect even if he is in the wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
esoteric1
Apr 8, 2004, 10:12 PM
Post #13 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 8, 2002
Posts: 705
|
ok, all of you that have issues with someone elses kids....bend over, (you might need gloves for this) insert your fingers in your anus, look for the stick, and promptly pull it out.
thank you
|
|
|
|
|
amstone
Apr 8, 2004, 10:43 PM
Post #14 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 28, 2004
Posts: 102
|
Being a parent, I don't think there are absolutes in any situation. Maybe the kid is part monkey and climbs stuff like that as a warm up. Just keep an eye out and gently offering kind suggestions to 'lend gear' or offer a belay if Dad/Mom wants to watch. Much more effective than a slam or accusation. Like our mothers said......treat others the way you would like to be treated.
|
|
|
|
|
slablizard
Apr 8, 2004, 11:50 PM
Post #15 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 13, 2003
Posts: 5558
|
I go often scramble up boulders at Mt Diablo with the kids, they're not that tall, but tall enough to get hurt if you fall. Let''s say around 35ft. They're not scared and they are very attentive and good in following my directions, they're 5 and 7 and they love to go there "to have an adventure"
I did the same with my dad back then, and it's one of my best memories.
Probably the guy knew what he was doing, maybe they did that before roped, maybe they do that 3 times a week. What looks "AMAZING" for someone is just a warm up route for another.
Try not to judge. Unless there's an evident danger situation. And never ever humiliate a parent in front of their kids, unless you're absolutely sure you have to do that.
Just my opinion as a parnt and a climber.
|
|
|
|
|
rossgoddard
Apr 9, 2004, 12:02 AM
Post #16 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2003
Posts: 181
|
In reply to: ...I'm interested what you would think of this? I let my 12 year old daughter boulder a 30-35' V4 problem with a topout? I was apprehensive about it to say the least. ...thoughts? Bob |
|
|
|
|
angry
Apr 9, 2004, 12:12 AM
Post #17 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
I remember scrambling up steep rocks as a kid. It was a blast. I wasn't a climber then and had no idea. Likely this kid or his dad has never climbed, so they are unaware of the safety risks.
I think the story has been exaggerated. I doubt the kid was ever in any real danger. Second-hand stories just aren't that reliable.
|
|
|
|
|
gandaulf
Apr 9, 2004, 3:42 AM
Post #18 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 6
|
It's scary when someone above had said call social services or something like that ... that is just plain nuts. Only in America can people lose thier kids for being stupid. It's not a crime to be stupid ... just unfortunate. There may have been bad judgment here on the parents part but getting organizations involved that could take thier kids is just plain idiotic.
Common sense would have been to notify the Gym Attendants and let them handle it if it really looked that dangerous.
Just my thoughts ...
p.s. I probably would have mentioned something to the parent like ... "has he/she done this before because a fall like that could be very serious" and sense the response. Many times parents just don't know.
|
|
|
|
|
adalta
Apr 10, 2004, 3:08 PM
Post #19 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2004
Posts: 7
|
if parents were never humiliated in front of there kids they would look like gods which they are deffinatly not i find my father tells me im a "no it all" and hes the one telling me how to climb (he has never climbed in his life) maybe if the child saw his parents were being humiliated he would question there judgment and come down (depending on how good he is) and if this kid is an awsome climber who cares older people free solo all the time why should it be diffrent for a just as good climbing 10 year old
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Apr 10, 2004, 3:25 PM
Post #20 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
In reply to: It's scary when someone above had said call social services or something like that ... that is just plain nuts. Only in America can people lose thier kids for being stupid. It's not a crime to be stupid ... just unfortunate.
Damn straight. People who think that the foster care system is a better place than with a parent that lets them climb on some friggin' rocks need serious gut punches. Remeber all those lost foster kids in Florida? Huh, what? You don't remember the ones kept in cages for the money? What about the ones they lost records for? Give me a break.
|
|
|
|
|
jfk
Apr 10, 2004, 6:21 PM
Post #21 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 25, 2004
Posts: 36
|
Maybe this child's father was guilty of stupidity, but just like every other situation in life, our response requires a bit of common sense as well.
If the dad is yelling at the kid to climb higher, while he cries, "Daddy, daddy, no...", call protective services.
If the kid is obviously a well honed VSharma prodigy, leave 'em alone.
Otherwise, I like the suggestion to politely inquire about their abilities and experience on the route, and offer help, a belay, etc.
Ignorance is our greatest risk factor.
|
|
|
|
|
a_scender
Apr 10, 2004, 7:05 PM
Post #22 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 88
|
I tend to agree with most of the posts here in that I wouldn't have said anything unless the child was being pushed, or looked uncomfortable up there. It is just to hard to say what the correct response would be without witnessing it first hand.
On another note, I have seen some pretty irresponsible action at the gym. There was a father with a young son, and each time the kid would top out on the lead cave he would have his dad give him slack. Then he would hang from his toes along the headboard and drop head first. That was alarming, and thankfully the gym put a stop to his climbing there before he ever got hurt. I guess my point is that sometimes kids can have too much control. I'm not sure what the dad was thinking.
|
|
|
|
|
kpalsson
Apr 13, 2004, 2:08 AM
Post #23 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 127
|
Do you stop family trips from going backcountry peakbagging? Where the "fourth class" ascents and descents are often as hard or harder than 5.4?
I'd say butt out, but I wasn't there :) And neither was anyone else, so I'm just going to stick to armchair governating with the best of them :)
Cheers,
Karl P
|
|
|
|
|
micahmcguire
Apr 13, 2004, 2:37 AM
Post #24 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 889
|
80 foot 5.4? meh, thats not so bad...
|
|
|
|
|
devin
Apr 13, 2004, 2:49 AM
Post #25 of 36
(3790 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 1, 2003
Posts: 29
|
Ok, first of all things like this just piss me off. No, not parents who dont give 2 sh!ts about what their kids are doing, and no, not when parents possibly encourage kids to do stupid things. It pisses me off when people blame the parent for the actions of the kid. I dont care how old the kid is, if he is old enough to climb things, he is old enough to see that there IS danger. My little brother is 11 years old, and he wouldn't climb a fence if his life depended on it. This reminds me of people who blame their parents because they chose to smoke, whiny pricks, take resposibility for yourself! It doesn't matter how old the kid is, if hes old enough to climb, hes old enough to fall. Maybe the kid will fall and die. Maybe that will be enough for the dad to not have anymore kids or to change his ways. What it comes down to is if the kid climbs like a monkey and lives, he may become an awesome climber. If he dies, well, he probably deserved it, and the father probably deserved the guilt. Thank you, George Carlin, for putting it best. "The kid who swallows too many marbles doesn't grow up to kids of his own!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
