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off_route
Jun 12, 2004, 4:06 AM
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Cams are all the rage, I can see that. Many people climb without cowbells and I almost never hear of people using slings for pro as they climb. So has anyone forgone the nuts and gone all active?
Off_Route
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boltdude
Jun 12, 2004, 4:26 AM
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Sure, lots of people.
Can you say "Indian Creek"?
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brianthew
Jun 12, 2004, 4:27 AM
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I can think of a few pitches I've done with only active.
I mix it up on other climbs, of course, but some climbs (splitters, etc) just work better with cams.
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tahoe_rock_master
Jun 12, 2004, 5:29 AM
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I don't climb with hex's. Some climbs cams just have the best placements, but on other climbs if you didn't have stoppers you wouldn't have a bomber piece on the entire pitch. I love the combo of stoppers and cams, on most routes I use a mix.
Matt
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ikellen
Jun 12, 2004, 6:00 PM
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I've never climbed a crack that didnt have a good nut placement, so I find it hard thinking of a climb where you would use all active gear.
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xclimber
Jun 12, 2004, 7:11 PM
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I love hexes, and when I started out all I had was passive gear ($$$ considerations)... I sometimes fantasize about climbing ALL PASSIVE, but then I somehow come to my senses...
X
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caughtinside
Jun 12, 2004, 7:32 PM
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Cams are all the rage? That's so 2003!
Cams are passe. Nuts are only kind of starting to get cool again. If you're real hip, you sling everthing in sight! 8^)
And for goodness sakes, don't be caught dead with a hex!
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off_route
Jun 12, 2004, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: Cams are all the rage? That's so 2003! Cams are passe. Nuts are only kind of starting to get cool again. If you're real hip, you sling everthing in sight! 8^) And for goodness sakes, don't be caught dead with a hex!
You hit the nail on the head right there brother! :D
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grayzed
Jun 12, 2004, 8:42 PM
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cams kick ass thats for sure!
you can put them in quickly when your in a tight spot and it can be a godsend.
although sometimes its nice to get in a nice nut or hex, and mix and match with your own judgement..
I have climbed routes with little to no nuts haha but i wouldnt leave home with out em'
p.s. I LOVE BOBER HEXES
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areyoumydude
Jun 12, 2004, 11:47 PM
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Supercrack or as they called it Luxury Liner was put up without cams, and they went to the top. That being said I have never placed a nut at the creek. :)
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vegastradguy
Jun 13, 2004, 12:44 AM
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the other day, i climbed 13 pitches with no stoppers. why? left the nut tool on the deck. oh well.
i climbed Pine Line the day before with no cams.
normally, its a healthy mix. good stance, easy ground- passive (except for a directional), bad stance or tough ground-active.
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incogneato
Jun 13, 2004, 2:57 AM
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I climb pretty much only with cams. You need a decent stance to let go long enough to clip a nut - then your second has to take it out. Basically, if you want to climb fast, or climb hard, you use only cams. Except, ofcourse, for the occasional nut that is a crucial piece on a redpoint.
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coylec
Jun 13, 2004, 4:20 AM
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It takes the same amount of work to place a nut or a cam: you still have to place it, set it and deal with it. If placing nuts is a time-intensive task, you're either not doing it right or you're placing cams willy-nilly.
coylec
ps - i've always wanted to write willy-nilly in a post.
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euphoriagtrst
Jun 13, 2004, 4:30 AM
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one word-aliens, stoppers, & aluminum offsets
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incogneato
Jun 13, 2004, 6:05 AM
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Hey coylec, no it doesn't. You have to unclip the nut you just placed from the biner with all your other nuts, then clip a draw to the nut, then clip the rope to the draw.
In reply to: It takes the same amount of work to place a nut or a cam: you still have to place it, set it and deal with it.
If this was true then why don't speed aid climbers carry nuts?
And you don't have to set a cam - just clip the rope to it.
On hard redpoints I occasionally place nuts, just only when I have to. I will have figured out where they go during my first few attempts on said route (on the dog) and have each nut independatly racked on their own draw during an attempt
In reply to: you're either not doing it right or you're placing cams willy-nilly.
I'm doing it right.
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coclimber26
Jun 13, 2004, 1:20 PM
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On easier routes I'm all about plug and go pro.
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vegastradguy
Jun 13, 2004, 2:26 PM
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incogneato-
wow, you dont give your cams a tug to make sure they're good? you're braver than me!
as for speed aid climbers- you sure about that? i'm no authority, but i cant imagine getting on a big wall without stoppers. someone please correct me if i'm wrong...ammon?
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climboard
Jun 13, 2004, 2:42 PM
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In reply to: I climb pretty much only with cams. You need a decent stance to let go long enough to clip a nut - then your second has to take it out. Basically, if you want to climb fast, or climb hard, you use only cams. Except, ofcourse, for the occasional nut that is a crucial piece on a redpoint.
I disagree- it generally takes me the same amount of time to place a nut as a cam. It's more about what is the best piece for the crack at hand.
Most of the areas near me (sandstone) lend themselves to great nut placements but when I climb in Yosemite or other Granite areas I find myself placing cams almost exclusively. I would feel comfortable climbing there with just active pro, however, carrying a half set of nuts takes up as much room and weight as a medium size cam so I bring them along for the ride.
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bellatoris
Jun 13, 2004, 8:00 PM
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Cams take about a quarter of the time to place than nuts, esp. when moving fast, eg. you see a slot higher up while moving closer, glance at the rack, grab your piece then stuff it the crack, clip, then move past, hardly stopping. Nuts can be bomber too though, esp. in out of reach and constricting cracks, that accept more than one size. But to answer your original question, for the most part yes. Mainly because they are quicker and easier to place and remove.
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bigwalling
Jun 13, 2004, 9:56 PM
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Cams are way faster than nuts if both will fit. Why tug a good cam?
Speed aid climbers go with cams before nuts... I think. Remove a cam that has been aided on and then remove a nut. Which comes out easier?
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vegastradguy
Jun 14, 2004, 1:15 AM
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i should note that obviously aid climbers will choose a cam before a nut, but somehow i doubt any aid climber would leave all of their stoppers on the ground....obviously a cam will clean quicker...but cams also dont always work.
btw-i dont tug good cams, i tug cams i either cant see all 4 lobes or i place in a dirty placement....just to make sure they're good. this happens quite a bit where i climb...i find myself tugging far less in Yosemite than in RR...
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dirtineye
Jun 14, 2004, 1:33 AM
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Warning Warning!!!! Stupididty levels in this thread approaching critical!
Nuts often place faster than cams. You are NOT doing it right, and you should know who you are.
I'd give examples, but anyone who has climbed enough already knows what sort of places nuts go in faster than cams, and the grade of the climb is irrelevant to that aspect. There is this thing called PREPARATION.
A few astonishing ideas are expressed here, to be sure
I smell a sport climber trying to trad in here somewhere....
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 14, 2004, 2:20 AM
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In the east I carry a mixed rack and place whatever is going to be the best option. I certainly don't tell myself that it is too hard to place a nut. that is bull honkey. On climbs that are hard for me i will pre rack the nut. on a draw or sling (provideing i have the beta) but I will do the same thing with a cam. I may leave the deck with 3 or 4 pieces ready to go in the order that I need them. I am not afraid to use a cam,nut or tricam if that is the best tool for the job. desert splitters are a different story however. Only a total fool would wast time placeing anything other than a cam at the creek 8^) leave the deck with 8#2 camalots an 6 #3's and everything is all warm and fuzzy :D
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incogneato
Jun 14, 2004, 6:01 PM
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I will pre-rack nuts independantly if I have the beta, but otherwize, no, I don't bother carrying them.
In reply to: Nuts often place faster than cams. You are NOT doing it right, and you should know who you are.
Tells us then, what is the right way to place nuts?
In reply to: I smell a sport climber trying to trad in here somewhere....
A high-level sport climber that has never climbed trad is far more likely to climb a hard traditional route than a climber who has placed gear all his life but never climbed hard.
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