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dredsovrn
Jun 16, 2004, 9:44 PM
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Actually I am not sure if it is new, but I have never seen anyone do it. Which also make me question whether or not it is worthwhile.
Anyhow, why not clip the draw to the rope, then pull the draw up to clip the bolt hanger? The rope slack will feed more easily sliding through a biner, the rope is easier to get into the biner in this way to begin with, and the draw is easy to hold to clip the bolt.
I may be missing something but it seems a lot less likely that you would miss a clip this way. I am going to try it theis weekend. What do you think?
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nthusiastj
Jun 16, 2004, 9:52 PM
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I clip with my tongue. The ladies LOVE it. :wink:
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dredsovrn
Jun 16, 2004, 9:52 PM
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In reply to: I clip with my tongue. The ladies LOVE it. :wink:
Right.....hey, thanks for the feedback...WTF?
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joneiche
Jun 16, 2004, 9:53 PM
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Because you are more likely to drop the draw during the transition from clipping your rope to clipping the bolt. plus on a 150' pitch the weight of the rope would make clipping the draw awful.
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dredsovrn
Jun 16, 2004, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: Because you are more likely to drop the draw during the transition from clipping your rope to clipping the bolt. plus on a 150' pitch the weight of the rope would make clipping the draw awful.
Good points, but you have to pull the rope up anyway so the drag will be nearly the same. I am thinking that on particularly difficult clips it saves some time making the clip one motion instead of two though.
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slablizard
Jun 16, 2004, 10:01 PM
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Yep. Tried. At one point I remember buying a t-shirt with a sling sewed in it at your chest height, with 4/5 little loops to clip the quickdraw in, having the rope already clipped in all 5 of them.
It was easier to clip on shorter routes, but kind of messy when you fell.
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gds
Jun 16, 2004, 10:12 PM
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Never tried it but it seems to have a major drawback in that you need to carry the weight of the rope all the way to the bolt/piece. In the normal way of clipping only the weight of the draw is carried to the bolt/piece and then the rope is brought up to the lower biner. So, the rope isn't carried as far and the weight is not being held when at your most stretched out position.
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killclimbz
Jun 16, 2004, 10:15 PM
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The style you are speaking has been done over the years. There used to be the "express" draw, at least I think that was the name of it. Basically a closed metal ring on one end and a biner on the other. You would tie in to your harness after running the rope through the ring. The biner would be clipped to the front of your loop. The theory was on desperate clips you could grab that "draw" and clip it with the rope already running through it.
Then people starting doing what you were speaking of and that invention went the way of the dodo.
I've seen the technique used in places like Eldo, but not recently. I gave it a try, and it seemed to be more work than to clip the draw into the bolt and then snap the rope through. It really depended on the height of the clip. If the bolt was close, then it was quicker. If I really had to reach it was actually more work than tugging up a couple of loops. My technique is better than it was back then so maybe things have changed. I'll have to re-visit it on my next outing.
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big_mac
Jun 16, 2004, 10:20 PM
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one thing, the weight might cause you to drop the rope. if you do this while your just clipping the rope in all you have to do is pick up the rope again. If youve already got the draw on, it has now slid down to your last bolt...
But hey, let us know how it goes
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big_mac
Jun 16, 2004, 10:21 PM
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one thing, the weight might cause you to drop the rope. if you do this while your just clipping the rope in all you have to do is pick up the rope again. If youve already got the draw on, it has now slid down to your last bolt...
But hey, let us know how it goes
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crimpandgo
Jun 16, 2004, 10:37 PM
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yep, dont like it. what happens when you want to orient the rope differently due to the way you are climbing past the bolt. I think it is easier to put the draw on the hanger at head height than to look down and try and determine the best way to attach it to the rope. Then if I was wrong, I would have to take the rope back off and put it back on correctly. Cause you know half the time preplacing the rope on the draw will end up with a back-clipped configuration.
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climbsomething
Jun 16, 2004, 11:11 PM
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Not new, nor particularly efficient or advantageous. You'd be best sticking with the conventional bolt-first clipping style.
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itakealot
Jun 17, 2004, 12:00 AM
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I will concur, I know a couple of climbers who use that technique, but their climbing styles are sooo dialed, and they climb past the 12 range, so what you discovered is not a revolutionary new thing, and heed the advice to stick to conventional clipping.
Oh yeah, I discovered a new way to rack my draws on my harness by clipping the gates toward me, I wonder if I am the first one to do this?
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caughtinside
Jun 17, 2004, 12:02 AM
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I've done it a couple times, but only on the first bolt. Plus, I've clipped the bolt end to the collar of my t-shirt, so you don't have to pull up much slack.
I did it because I saw someone else do it, and wanted to try it. Not much of an advantage unless the first clipping stance sucks.
ALSO: the guy I learned that from did it because he always used a locker on the rope end of his first QD. This method let him lock the biner with the rope in ahead of time, so there would be no fiddling or finagle-ing once he was on route.
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rgold
Jun 17, 2004, 1:23 AM
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When you pull the rope up with your hand, you have to lift just the rope weight. When you pull it up with the draw, you are using a pulley and therefore have to lift twice the rope weight. You might not notice the difference at the bottom of a pitch, but you sure will at the top.
There is a related technique for difficult clips, where there is concern about falling with the clipping slack pulled up but not yet clipped in. In this method, you add a long sling to the top biner of the draw, put a biner on the long sling, and clip that biner to the rope. The sling has to be long enough so that you don't lift the rope when clipping. Once you have got the top biner in, the slack can be pulled up and clipped to the draw. If you fall doing this, you are protected by the biner in the long sling.
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coldclimb
Jun 17, 2004, 1:24 AM
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I've done it before. In some situations it works very well. I don't do it all the time though. Not for any particular reason, just because I can use the normal method just fine. :?
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korporal
Jun 17, 2004, 3:06 AM
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It suprises me that no one has mention that it would be easier to back clip. Pulling the twice the weight of the rope wouldn't be fun either.
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dredsovrn
Jun 17, 2004, 12:50 PM
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With the exception of a few of the usual idiot responses, thanks for the feedback. I guess like many things in climbing there are arguments both for and against.
I really had this in mind for a fairly desparate clip on a sustained .12b with a good stretch between bolt 4 and 5. I clipped the 5th bolt with a draw and burned and peeled before I could pull enough slack to clip making for an exciting fall.
I don't think it will become my primary method, but for situations like that, if it works, it may be another tool in the arsenal.
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tecais
Jun 17, 2004, 2:32 PM
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Another issue not mentioned here - usually you need to pull up two arm spans of slack to clip a bolt at max reach. To do this the rope is clenched in your teeth after the first span of slack is hauled up. Now imagine trying this with a pre-clipped draw that you naturally hold by the top (bolt clipping) biner. No efficient way to cinch off the slack in your mouth now.
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shorty
Jun 17, 2004, 2:35 PM
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In reply to: I really had this in mind for a fairly desparate clip on a sustained .12b with a good stretch between bolt 4 and 5. I clipped the 5th bolt with a draw and burned and peeled before I could pull enough slack to clip making for an exciting fall.
In reply to: With the exception of a few of the usual idiot responses... |
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cchildre
Jun 17, 2004, 3:43 PM
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Just remember that if you miss the clip and were to drop the quickdraw. Cha-ching down goes your quickdraw and you might need to consider retiring that draw. Micro cracks can make an appearance in aluminum and significantly weaken it. Letting them clang down the wall to the next bolt can do microscopic damage. Also consider that if you miss the clip to the bolt and take a fall, the draw clipped into a whipping, jerking rope could swing around smack you in the face, ouch. I had considered using this same technique but quickly realized it's drawbacks. Also, I see no problem with my current clipping method that would be solved by using this technique. That is just one mans opinion.
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timstich
Jun 17, 2004, 3:46 PM
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In reply to: Micro cracks can make an appearance in aluminum and significantly weaken it.
Not true. The microcrack issue is a myth. I used to believe this myth as well. Carabiners that were dropped from El Cap have tested to failure at or above their rated strength.
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miklaw
Jun 17, 2004, 3:59 PM
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The only time it can be a big advantage is for a death clip, when you are really stressed getting to a bolt and may crater if you fail while pulling up rope (you add about 5' of slack to the system when clipping).
Clip the rope into one end of a long (3 - 4 ') sling and the other end to your harness and that way you can clip the end from your harness without pulling up any extra slack. If you want you can have a std draw clipped to the top biner and move the rope up to there later to shorten any subsequent falls.
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gds
Jun 17, 2004, 4:29 PM
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In reply to: When you pull the rope up with your hand, you have to lift just the rope weight. When you pull it up with the draw, you are using a pulley and therefore have to lift twice the rope weight. |
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