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maculated
Feb 5, 2004, 5:06 PM
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Hello all, the mods of the Accidents and Injuries forum would like to remind you that posting for beta about minor injuries is fine and dandy, but the responders aren't doctors (and if they are, this still goes), and cannot actually examine the situation.
What if that pullled tendon is something worse? Is it worth it? Hie thee to a doctor!
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stymingersfink
Apr 22, 2004, 3:46 AM
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Now, if I could go to a doctor who climbs, so much the better. At least s/he will understand where I'm coming from.
Too bad there isn't a reference for something like that. (hint)
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jv
Apr 22, 2004, 4:21 AM
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In reply to: Now, if I could go to a doctor who climbs, so much the better. At least s/he will understand where I'm coming from. Too bad there isn't a reference for something like that. (hint)
This is less of a problem now than it was when I started climbing. When I was a 20-something and told the doc I had injured myself while rock climbing, he looked at me like a leper and asked: "Why don't you take up something like sailing?"
Docs now are more accustomed to patients with risky hobbies. Still, there's not much a doc can do for your average climbing injury, unless you need surgery. Once you've ruled that out, get thee to a physical therapist. They know how to get you healed.
JV
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photon
Apr 30, 2004, 6:49 PM
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really? you mean these words looking at me aren't doctors examining me?
are you sure about this
In reply to: Hello all, the mods of the Accidents and Injuries forum would like to remind you that posting for beta about minor injuries is fine and dandy, but the responders aren't doctors (and if they are, this still goes), and cannot actually examine the situation. What if that pullled tendon is something worse? Is it worth it? Hie thee to a doctor! |
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andy_reagan
May 20, 2004, 7:23 PM
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What about the voices in my head? Can I trust them?
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katydid
May 20, 2004, 7:26 PM
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In reply to: What about the voices in my head? Can I trust them?
Depends. Have they been to medical school?
;)
k.
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dingus
May 20, 2004, 7:55 PM
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In reply to: Hello all, the moMs of the Accidents and Injuries forum would like to remind you
Feeling motherly in the Accidents Waiting to Happen Forum, are we?
LOL! Just kidding! (sort of...)
DMT
did he just say that to a woman he admires from afar???
he did
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maculated
May 22, 2004, 3:20 AM
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Duuuuuuuuuuude, you guys only noticed this sticky now? This is so 3 months ago. Go ahead, injure yourselves. God knows I'm good at it. :)
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aimeerose
May 24, 2004, 5:20 PM
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Please stay away from chiropractors for injuries. They are not licensed physicians although they like to portray that they are. Go to a physician or at the bare minimum a physical therapist. Physical therapists are not physicians either, but are trained in treating injuries. Some of them are even specialized hand therapists (denoted by the letters CHT after their name). And there are doctors that climb, BTW.
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gds
May 24, 2004, 6:01 PM
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In reply to: Please stay away from chiropractors for injuries. They are not licensed physicians although they like to portray that they are. Go to a physician or at the bare minimum a physical therapist. Physical therapists are not physicians either, but are trained in treating injuries. Some of them are even specialized hand therapists (denoted by the letters CHT after their name). And there are doctors that climb, BTW.
regardless of how you feel about the various "healing professions"
the facts are that Chiropraqcters are licensed as independent practioners and in many states PT are not. That means that you must first go to a licensed practitioner and get a referral.
My experience is that I have seen good and bad physicians, PT's, chiropracters, neuro muscular therapists, massage therapists, etc.
I tend to go with the person not the initials after their name.
Of course this comment doesn 't apply to such things as surgery, etc where you obviously need specific professional certification.
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aimeerose
May 24, 2004, 6:27 PM
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In many states, including Arizona, PTs are licensed as independent practioners (over 35 states have Direct Access to PTs). As the degree progressess to the Doctorate level, more states will follow this trend. The real issue in my mind is that Chiropractors often portray themselves as physicians when in fact they are not. They have had a stronger lobby in government affairs and insurance affairs in the past than PTs and therefore have more coverage and are able to order X-rays. However, most MDs will tell you the images they order are garbage. I feel it is irresponsible of chiropractors to claim to cure many ailments they can not. Chiropracty has it's place (ie. chronic or acute back pain symptomatic relief NOT cure), but often the practioners seem to overstep their boundaries.
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jt512
May 24, 2004, 6:42 PM
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In reply to: Chiropracty has it's place (ie. chronic or acute back pain symptomatic relief NOT cure), but often the practioners seem to overstep their boundaries.
Actually, I would say that I was "cured" of two long-standing back problems by chiropractic. I suffered with numbness and weakness between the shoulder blades when doing anything with my arms out in front of me for more than a few seconds. For instatnce washing the dishes was painful. I had this problem for at least 15 years. The other problem I had was pain and marked weakness in my right shoulder when trying to life anything over my head. I had that problem for about 3 years. After two or three visits to a chiropracter these problems were gone, and have not returned in 6 years. So, I think there are problems that really are caused by subluxation of the vertebrae for which chiropractic is ideally suited to treat. On the other hand, I agree with you entirely that many chiropractors misrepresent the scope of chiropractic. There are two "schools" of chiropractic, one of which basically teaches chiropractic as a religion, and the other (smaller, unfortunately) shool, which teaches a more scientific, evidence-based approach. Ironically, my chiroprator was from the religious school. He was a very competent adjuster, but you had to ignore the philosophy he preached.
-Jay
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aimeerose
May 24, 2004, 6:58 PM
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That's great it worked for you for those conditions. Interesting because I would have thought the shoulder was a rotator cuff problem and the other condition weak rhomboids (the muscles that lay between your shoulder blades). Did you do any exercises for either condition in conjunction with the adjustments?
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gds
May 24, 2004, 7:05 PM
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In reply to: I feel it is irresponsible of chiropractors to claim to cure many ailments they can not. Chiropracty has it's place (ie. chronic or acute back pain symptomatic relief NOT cure), but often the practioners seem to overstep their boundaries.
I had a great Chiropracter who helped me with shoulder, back, hip, and knee problems. Yes, he did manipulation and suggested specific exesizes. And yes I've heard horror stories from others. Goes back to my point--its the person not the initials.
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jt512
May 24, 2004, 7:20 PM
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In reply to: That's great it worked for you for those conditions. Interesting because I would have thought the shoulder was a rotator cuff problem and the other condition weak rhomboids (the muscles that lay between your shoulder blades). Did you do any exercises for either condition in conjunction with the adjustments?
No. This chiropractor didn't "believe in" exercises.
According to the chiropractor -- and I'm inclined to agree -- the shoulder problem was actually the result of a problem in my neck, possibly nerve impingement. It's hard for me to argue with this, since the result of the neck adjustment was so dramatic. The return of strength to the shoulder was immediate and I could lift my arm above my head with no pain for the first time in several years. Oddly enough, after the adjustment at first my shoulder drooped a bit, suggesting to me a muscle imbalance, which probably resulted from my having been unable to use my arm normally for so long. Gradually, over several weeks, the drooping corrected itself, though I think a regimen of exercises to aid in rehabilitation would have been appropriate.
-Jay
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climbingbetty22
May 24, 2004, 7:29 PM
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aimeerose-
Just an FYI- it is my understanding that chiropractors are given the title "Doctor" because they are legally able to make diagnoses within their scope of practice. A PT is not a "dcotor" per se because they are not legally able to make diagnoses, merely to treat them.
Chiropractic has two schools of thought- mixed and straight. Straight chiropractors stick pretty much to adjusting to fix their patients complaints (these a D.C. that people often seen as "fanatical" or "religious", while "mixers" will use a variety of techniques including PT-type exercises. For a person suffering neuromuscular problems, a chiropractor can be convenient in that they can be diagnosed and treated by one person instead of having to get a diagnosis from a MD who will refer then refer them to a PT.
The reality of modern medicine is that a patient has many options to choose from in terms of how they treat their illness. Each individual should be allowed to determine what is the best course for themselves. Discouraging people from seeing certain practioners because of misinformation and prejudice I believe, is in poor taste nor in the best interest of the patient, which is ultimately the bottom line.
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photonicgirl
Jul 2, 2004, 8:19 PM
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Wow, what a great forum.
I've met really great doctors, and really great acupuncturists....and really great doctors who prescribed physical therapy when the other not so great doctors couldn't rehab my many times popped ankle with foot insoles (duh!).
I was once an okay EMT firefighter and saw some amazing accidents and stabbings in California and can assure everyone here that in the ER, you want a really great surgeon...
When I have a climbing/skiing/biking/kayaking/surfing injury that doesn't involve broken bones, I go to my favorite acupuncturist, who uses 4,000 year old scientific methods to open my closed due to injury meridians and make me feel sooo much better ....
Thanks for the great discussion folks. I just HAD to throw my two cents in.
Tally ho!
Jules
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nirvana
Jul 2, 2004, 8:30 PM
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Over the years, I've had very good results with chiropractors who have a sports medicine background. The "regular" docs always just told me to quit running/lifting/whatever caused the injury.
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gds
Jul 2, 2004, 8:34 PM
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In reply to: Over the years, I've had very good results with chiropractors who have a sports medicine background. The "regular" docs always just told me to quit running/lifting/whatever caused the injury.
I'll second that and apply it all types of practitioners. Those with a sports medicine (or athletic) background are much better at treating athletes. After all we don't want to "rest" if we don't have to.
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photonicgirl
Jul 2, 2004, 8:39 PM
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So true, so true....
The doc who finally helped with my ankle (for which I still will get acupuncture if needed) was an athlete himself, with two bad ankles. I gave him a new computer in the bike shop where I worked and then he hung around to talk injury with me. I didn't know he was a doc and he didn't know I had an injury....
The new computer was a bonues cos the company was replacing them for free. He didn't buy his at our shop but what the hey, he might buy something else someday.
As it turned out, he treated my ankle for free as I was a military wife at the time and he was a head cheese at the military hospital where I couldn't get treatment before. He gave me a script to use his personally developed slide pad in physical therapy that began with a round thing and culminated with the slide pad.
You never know when a good doctor will ride his road bike into your shop with a broken computer....
Be ready...
Jules
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iltripp
Jul 2, 2004, 9:29 PM
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I totally agree that a chiropractor can provide a range of benefits from symptomatic relief to an all-out cure of muscular/skeletal problems, and they definitely have their place in things. There is, however, the persistent belief that chiropractors can cure everything from back pain to the common cold. I find that line of thinking a bit retarded.
I especially disagree with those that think that exercise and PT are useless and only the adjustments will help. I had a chronic lower back problem that was solved by something called an osteopath (I think he was an MD, but I don't remember since it was so long ago). He combined some adjustments, which provided immediate relief, with showing me exercises and stretches that helped rehabilitate, strengthen, and add flexibility my back, solving the problem completely.
As for the original post about seeing a doctor. I, unfortunately, have to agree. I recently found out that the scaphoid in my wrist had been broken years ago and never healed properly. Now it is unfixable, and I am basically doomed to a great deal of pain, arthritis, and loss of strength and mobility, culminating in eventually having to fuse my wrist (losing almost all mobility) in about 10 years.
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reno
Jul 6, 2004, 3:57 AM
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Greetings, gang... Reno here.
I've offered to be a moderator for this forum, and now that I've finally settled in to my new home in Tempe, AZ (*sniff, sniff... I miss Colorado... sniff, sniff*) I've got a few free moments.
First, a little about my background, so you know what makes me somewhat qualified to take on this task:
I've got a Bachelor's Degree in Sports Medicine, with a focus in Athletic Training. My second degree is in Exercise Physiology. I worked in this field for a time, acting as the trainer for an NCAA-II College, an Orthopedic Surgery Group, and with the Minnesota Twins. Wanting a new challenge, I went BACK to school and got a degree in Emergency Medicine - Paramedicine. I've been a paramedic for about 8 years, and now work as a flight paramedic. Suffice it to say I've been there, seen it, and treated it. So, after reading several past posts where the advice ranged from good to mediocre to dangerous, I figured I'd offer my assistance.
My disclaimer is much the same as in the first part of this topic... Get advice from a doctor if you are unsure in any fashion. This is your body we're talking about, and you only get one.
So what kind of doctor, many of you might ask. Well, not a bad question. My suggestion is to seek the care of an Orthopedic Surgeon for any musculoskeletal injury (broken bone, severe sprain, dislocation, etc.) If the injury is of a more general nature, yet still affects your climbing, you would do well to find a physician specializing in Sports Medicine (see below.) An Emergency Room doctor will be able to provide emergent care, but will also frequently refer you to a specialist. Then there's always the reliable stand-by: Your personal family physician. Current trends in societal values have led people to seek "new" types of medicine: Chiropractic, Traditional Eastern Medicine (accupuncture, accupressure, etc.), homeopathic cures (herbs, teas, incense, meditation, etc.) and the like.
Each climber needs to take the time and effort to seek out as much information as possible about the choices available in medical care. While Chinese Accupuncture may indeed be 4000 years old, and Western Surgical Care is only 100 years old at best, let's not forget that 4,000 years ago people 1) were not climbing 5.12, 2) had a life span of 40 years or less, 3) didn't have nearly as many co-morbid factors in life (pollution, poor diet, etc.) Conversely, more and more Western Physicians are finding evidence that "Letting the Body heal itself" is a good idea in many cases, and the dogma of IV medications and procedures is not as good as they once thought. So research various disciplines, and keep your eyes open. Not everything is what it seems.
If you click HERE you will get to a webpage that lists the chapters of the American College of Sports Medicine. Each chapter should be able to provide a list of Board Certified Sports Medicine Specialists in your area.
THIS LINK will get you to a webpage where you can locate an orthopedic surgeon, for those broken bones and dislocated joints.
Finally, but perhaps most important: Get some training in Wilderness First Aid or Wilderness EMT. While neither course is going to FULLY prepare you for all situations you may encounter, they are both good at teaching you the basics. NOLS runs a decent ship, so to speak, and the folks there have been setting the standard for wilderness medicine for years.
If I can be of any assistance in answering questions about injuries or illness, don't hesitate to ask. Keep in mind that I can't diagnose anything over the internet, but I'll do my best to offer what I can.
Happy climbing, and be safe.
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maculated
Aug 26, 2004, 3:05 PM
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You know, it's interesting that you all are worried about chiropractors, but what you should REALLY be worried about are witch doctors.
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timstich
Aug 26, 2004, 3:20 PM
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In reply to: You know, it's interesting that you all are worried about chiropractors, but what you should REALLY be worried about are witch doctors.
The only thing you should be worried about chiropractors is them taking your money and you avoiding doing the right exercises to prevent your back problems. Chiros just treat the symptoms and you never really improve that much, which suits their wallets. Just like Freudian psychotherapy.
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chicanodoc
Oct 1, 2004, 6:32 AM
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As a physician and seasoned climber I would have to agree with this last post. You as well as us climbing physicians are at a huge disadvantage in NO PHYSICAL exam can be done on a forum post. My advice is to use your judgment and consult your doctor accordingly.
Best of health,
E. Quinones, MD
p.s. understanding that not all have the resources of medical insurance there are free clinics and such need based healthcare in most communities.
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Please consult a physician, chiropractor, witch doctor . . .
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