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jason1
Jul 11, 2004, 5:18 AM
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the guys name is lou shoemaker... he rents the hunting cabin down the road... i think you should talk to him... do your due dilligence rob...
why not post up some directions for tillbury? to close to home?
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randisi
Jul 11, 2004, 1:13 PM
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I don't want to waste anymore time arguing with spiteful prevaricators. I do want to support Jason.
Rob, Jason didn't lie to you about the Black Snake Boogie. He merely got the name wrong. Jason often doesn't keep names straight. Common problem. There is a problem that traverses underneath Black Snake Boogie put up by Zweig called Sweet Bulimia. And yes, it's rated an unconfirmed V11. Please come, lie about climbing it and down-rate it to V6.
Randy
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fleamodee
Jul 11, 2004, 3:47 PM
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jkarns, I wasn't talking about hunters.
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jkarns
Jul 11, 2004, 6:53 PM
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In reply to: jkarns, I wasn't talking about hunters.
What exactly were you talking about, because I can't figure it out! (that's what the quote feature is for!)
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fleamodee
Jul 11, 2004, 7:31 PM
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Jkarns, I have no idea how to use the quote feature. Read the post right above where I write "It's not on public land..." Maybe I was talking about that post? In reply to: This area is in Black Moshannon state park. They allow climbing there. |
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rwaltermyer
Jul 12, 2004, 2:28 AM
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:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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nafod
Jul 15, 2004, 2:18 AM
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In reply to: Jason removed the directions to an area called Bear Rocks I posted. This area is in Black Moshannon state park. They allow climbing there.
It's not in the state park. It's on private land.
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rockjess
Jul 19, 2004, 10:30 PM
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Randolf said,Rob, Jason didn't lie to you about the Black Snake Boogie. He merely got the name wrong. Jason often doesn't keep names straight. Common problem.In reply to: Randolf, your quote above clearly states that Jason lance does not even know the name of a V11 at Hunter's; so you are saying that one of the hardest lines at Hunter's a so-called local who developed climbs there does not even know the name of? you say he In reply to: Well I guess that proves Robs point then. The Hunter's locals don't know #### about their own area and if it is as you say a common problem then I guess Rob is right on about his assesment of the poor history of the area. I saw pictures at a slide show of some legendary boulderers that were climbing at Hunter's a long long time ago. They developed stuff there. you have no clue who they were. You claim no one developed anything at Hunter's except you and your buddies a few years ago. you don't know crap about your own local bouldering area. When Rob's book comes out you are going to look like a bigger fool than you already do. Jessie |
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rockjess
Jul 19, 2004, 10:36 PM
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By the way Bear Rocks is in the state park. Why is it that State College locals spread heavy rumors about every spot in an hour drive of the town is closed yet they print and distribute a guidebook to Bellfonte quarry; one of the most access sensitive areas on the East Coast.
Jessie
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fleamodee
Jul 20, 2004, 2:31 AM
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In reply to: By the way Bear Rocks is in the state park.
Go to the county courthouse look up lou shoemaker and prove us wrong, you won't be able to.
In reply to: Why is it that State College locals spread heavy rumors about every spot in an hour drive of the town is closed yet they print and distribute a guidebook to Bellfonte quarry; one of the most access sensitive areas on the East Coast.
You think possible that could have been a couple of years ago before the access got shady?
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rockjess
Jul 20, 2004, 2:58 AM
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Fleamodee said,
In reply to: You think possible that could have been a couple of years ago before the access got shady?
Like when? When it was an operating quarry?
You said the guy rents a cabin at Bear. first of all if he rents that don't make him the land owner.
Second: Who does he rent from. Duh...maybee Black Moshannon State Park.
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jason1
Jul 20, 2004, 5:40 AM
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA...............
he owns the land and rents the cabin to hunters...
who knows, mebbie he's psyched to have a bunch of people running around bouldering.... i think someone should ask...
critical reading skills are lacking in this group....
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synrock
Jul 21, 2004, 12:30 AM
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Every access problem is different. The more "local" the person, the better position they are in to be able to formulate effective access policies.
Bellefonte is a quarry. Officially bellefonte is closed. Unofficially we climb there all the time.
What is the difference between Bellefonte and Hunters and Bear rocks?
Bellefonte is owned by a corporation and all they care about is liability. Officially it is closed. The locals and the cops who occasionally kick people out - are actually pro climbing. It's good for the local economy. It gives Bellefontians a small element of pride (and pocket cash) that people from all around the state go there to climb in the quarry that they all went swimming in when they were kids.
Continued climbing isn't going to hurt access there. Seeing that two of the bellefonte quarries have actually been FILLED IN a few years ago, I say climb there while the place STILL EXISTS! Get enough people fired up about the place so that maybe someday there will be enough momentum for the access fund or somebody to perhaps buy the place. Before they decide to fill in the main quarry. The new home owners that are now spitting distance from the top of coleman's want the place filled in. If everyone stops climbing there who is going to say no?
Hunters is owned by an old guy who has a cranky son. They have a cabin not far from the parking area. They don't spend much time there but last year the cranky son got fired up because someone broke into the cabin so he went patrolling around the place with a shotgun kicking people out. Obviously a different situation. Go to hunters if you are in the area but don't advertise the place. That is the best policy I can think of for hunters. Don't give the land owner cause to freak out by keeping visits to a minimum.
Bear Rocks is a big unkown. The land is actually posted. You come across the signs on the way in - although they are very very old. The guy that owns bear rocks uses the land as a hunting preserve.
You have to think.... Is this guy going to want lots of people strolling through his hunting preserve? I gotta say no. Best not to advertise the place.
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synrock
Jul 21, 2004, 1:05 AM
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In reply to: As for me not knowing about your other secret areas" angry Dragon" in Central PA. Maybee I will just post directions on this site to Mapleton, Chestnut Ridge, Goodman Quarry, Pulpit Rocks, Bear Rocks, Mach Chunck Ridge, The Spires, Black Rocks. Then we will see what I know about and dont know about. Want to take that chance I dont know where it is? They are all on State owned property.
There is no climbing area called angry dragon. That area on the video on the synrock website is unfortuantely on private land and it isn't anywhere you think it is.
Posting directions to mapleton would perhaps be tantamount to reckless endangerment. Mapleton is perhaps the most dangerous climbing area in the country. Go to the wrong area at the wrong time of year and you've got north face eiger rockfall. Get on the wrong climb or do the second pitch of something and you are not going to have a good time. I might do a small guide to the place just to lessen the chance of people dying - but only after word gets out. And there is no place to park and the mining company guys will kick you out.
Chestnut ridge is huge. You can't just say chestnut ridge, that is like saying the appalacians.
Pulpit rocks is very limited top-roping except for the secret sport pinnacle near there (unfortunately private land - we've been kicked out).
Goodman quarry has a parking access issue and it's also a bit on the dangerous side. And some guy with a shotgun "thinks" he owns it.
Mauch chunk is a geologic formation name. Ridges of it cross the entire state.
You are trolling for info. Spend your time looking - it will be more productive.
jim bowers
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roclimb
Jul 21, 2004, 1:30 AM
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Im not trolling for anything. Angry Dragon is at an area you call 22-boulders if I am correct. Its very close to Mapleton.
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rockjess
Jul 21, 2004, 1:54 AM
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Jim bowers,
Wow, your logic is truely perplexing. You have been distributing a guidebook for Bellfonte quarry for years, you admit the area is closed, yet somehow since you are the one doing it, it's ok. Yet someone want's to post directions to an area that is 90% on public lands and you have a problem with it. Not the sharpest piton on the rack are ya?
As for the dude with the shotgun and the broken in cabin, you said it was last year, huh? Come on dude I heard that B.S story 4-years ago. Does someone brake in his cabin every year? Any one on this site knows who has been to hunter's that B.S story has been goin round for years. A local told me it is a story they spread around to keep people out of their area. Like the B.S about the overturned cars. You guys need to get your lies straight dude.
As for Rob trolling......well I guess he knows enough about Bear Rocks to get your panties in a grind. Now you chalanged him again. Please, please Rob post directions to another one of their secret spots so I can go find it. Bear Rocks was a blast.
Dude, this Robbie guy is a PA encyclopedia of rock. He has forgotted about more areas than anyone in PA knows about.
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roclimb
Jul 21, 2004, 2:15 AM
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Jessie,
Lets put this topic to rest. It's going nowhere. Bear and Hunters are mostly public , thats why I posted directions but I am sorry there are a few of their secret spots that are on private land (a few but not all), so I am sorry but I can't in good conscience post directions to them.
Since no one seems to have problems with PM's though, I just sent you some directions to some spots I think you will like. You might want to check out Pecock road near you in lock heaven. It's a small spot but nice. And its on game lands so you can climb there. There is a nice spot on the ridge near Boyalsburgh too worth hiking to, I sent directions so you can check those and a few others out.
Kudos
~Rob :D
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synrock
Jul 21, 2004, 9:04 AM
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In reply to: Jim bowers, Wow, your logic is truely perplexing. You have been distributing a guidebook for Bellfonte quarry for years, you admit the area is closed, yet somehow since you are the one doing it, it's ok. Yet someone want's to post directions to an area that is 90% on public lands and you have a problem with it. Not the sharpest piton on the rack are ya?
Ok first we need to have a little "reading" lession. Reading means you read words, and then you try to figure out what they mean. I'll go slow so maybe you have a chance.
I am advocating climbing at bellefonte because climbing there doesn't jepordize future access. There are plans to FILL IT IN! As in WIPE IT OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. I feel we need as many people as possible to climb there to provide access "voices" and maybe a reason not to get rid of it (tourism dollars to depressed town).
If you call app. ski and outdoors (234-3000) and ask about the chances of getting a Bellefonte guide book, they will laugh at you "well maybe in 6 months cause that lazy asshole jim bowers only brings in a half dozen every 6 months or so." I have no economic incentive in this situation.
Now, I am not advocating climbing at hunters because - now listen closely...
If you climb at hunters you will spend over 90% of the time on the posted land. IT IS POSTED. Someone took down the signs at the top of the hill but they are still at the bottom. IT is posted.
Now. Bear Rocks is 100% on posted land. Not 90% in a park. 100% on posted land.
What is the difference between bellefonte and the other 2?
Bellefonte owned by corporation - climbing will never be permitted, future trespassing is irrelvelant to that issue.
Hunters and Bear rocks are owed by a "person"
Maybe we can, maybe we can't - it is all up to the wims of 1 person. future trespassing by lots of people is revelant to this issue.
Do yah see the difference?
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synrock
Jul 21, 2004, 9:15 AM
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In reply to: I just sent you some directions to some spots I think you will like. You might want to check out Pecock road near you in lock heaven. It's a small spot but nice. And its on game lands so you can climb there. There is a nice spot on the ridge near Boyalsburgh too worth hiking to, I sent directions so you can check those and a few others out. Kudos ~Rob :D
Oh come on. Now you are sending this poor schmuck off to check out potential areas for you?
I've done that to friends I don't like - but never to complete strangers.
At least send him to elk. That's a real bouldering area and it's close to Lock Haven. I'd show the guy some cool stuff in the area but he doesn't make friends very well does he?
Making friends will get you a lot farther in this world son - a lot farther than bitching.
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roclimb
Jul 21, 2004, 1:42 PM
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Jim,
The stuff in Elk SF. I had been to the stuff off the hiking trail years ago. You know the trail with the nice rock passage that splits it. I dont see why people like it so much. The stuff near the Barillium Oside is not much better either. I guess people like it though.
If your interested I know of a spot identical to Hunters Rock. Its a Hunters sister area near Elk State Forest. (Not too far outside the park that is. Its not actually in Elk state Forest). It has bolted sport lines, and tons of boulders.
Let me know if you are interested.
~Rob :D
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rockjess
Jul 21, 2004, 3:20 PM
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Jim,
You said
"Bellefonte is owned by a corporation and all they care about is liability. Officially it is closed. The locals and the cops who occasionally kick people out - are actually pro climbing. It's good for the local economy. "
Do you actually believe the people escorting you off the land “like climbers” Ya it’s good for the local economy as they kick you off the property. Tell me Jim, do they hand you food vouchers good at any of the local shops as they pat you on the butt and say good riddens. Ya, now that I think of it all the restaurants post on their marquees “Welcome Climbers”, climbers are so known to shell out loads of cash freely when they visit places. I think they rank right up there with all those wealthy bankers that go on vacation in the Hamptons or Club Med.
You have a strange way of justifying that you did a guidebook for a closed and access dangered area dude.
You pretend to be such an access advocate Jim then why don’t you do something about Bellfonte Jim? Instead of spreading a guidebook out to a closed area and lashing out at climbers for going to areas on State Game Lands (like Hunter's) where they can climb why not do something productive like talking to the quarry and getting them to turn the land over to climbers rather than sitting on your butt and doing nothing while they fill it in and saying “lots of climbers should now about this place cause I did a guide and they are filling the place in”
Does the quarry know you printed a guidebook to their private property? Maybe you should tell them about it and how many millions of dollars the climbers contribute to their local economy.
You say that no one should know about Hunter’s because the land owner who owns only 10% of the land there will get pissed and not allow climbing, yet every weekend I go there there are at lease 20 climbers there. YOU regularly go there. What happens if he runs into you there? It will have the same effect if a climber who got directions there is caught. So what’s the difference? Is he going to say “Oh Jim bowers is ok to climb here cause he already knows about the spot but anyone who got directions of rocclimbing.com has to get off my land”. From what I understand, you, this Randy guy, and Jason are the ones who hyped the place up in the first place. Supposedly only a few dozen climbers had been climbing there prior to 1998 then “BING” you guys came there and now hundreds
Dont compare Bellfonte and Hunter's as being adversly different access situations just so you can sleep at night nowing you are distributing a guidebook for one of the most access endangered areas in the country dude. Be realistic; Hunter's is 90% on public lands, let the community know this by guidebook,online directions etc. that clearly state you can only climb in certain boundaries. They do it at peterskill.
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fleamodee
Jul 21, 2004, 3:39 PM
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Rockjess, read the damn posts. They have filled in some of the quarries with dirt, i.e. no climbing ever again. Therefore, if people don't climb at the main quarry there will be no voices to save it if and when they decide to fill it in as well. Do you understand? NO CLIMBERS = filled in quarry, that isn't an access issue that means it will be IMPOSSIBLE to climb there. As far as money in people's pockets, stop at the Penn state sub shop in bellefonte some time bring up climbing with the owner, he will say he has no problem with you parking there, and will then say he would appreciate if you could stop and get some food/drinks/ice cream when you are done. He may tell you not to swim in the pool because there's some cars there, other than that he's all about people being there. I don't think you are close enough to the situation to have a basis to make any judgements upon access, that goes for hunters, bear rocks, bellefonte, the meteor boulders, polymorphic boulders, homunculus boulders, or the nowhere boulders. BrianM
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mackavus
Jul 21, 2004, 4:28 PM
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Guys, guys, guys, guys, everyone in here... chill out a bit.
I felt really strongly about this whole thing, but now I feel differently. I honestly still hold my ground, but I have seen the other sides point of view and wont post directions out of respect for them. I am not trying to make it sound like I am doing them a favor or anything, because I dont feel that way. Like I said, I definetly disagree here but see what you guys mean and I think we should just leave this at a disagreement. I can do that. I totally regret starting this thread. I should have known better. I hereby apologize to everyone for this as it has gotten a little out of control here and I think it is starting to make enemies. Lets let it go. I did not intend to have one half of the state hating the other half here. I am not going to be posting directions to hunters.
To my own disbelief however, I am really starting to agree with Jim on the Bellefonte issue. I mean, no climbers = no voices and voices is what that place needs. I think we may actually be on to something with advertising the quarry and telling more people to go there.
A serious few questions though. I would prefer if Bowers answered these as I would trust he knows more than anyone else in here about the quarry.
I thought the PS Sub Shop had cars towed?
Actual parking situation/access at the col de sac at the end of the street near the little league field.
What about parking at the little league field?
I ask these because we cant have directions without a place to park. Directions have to lead you somewhere, and the two places that I know of cant possibly hold more than 4 cars. If the Sub Shop for instance only let a few cars stay there unoficially, and would be pissed if it got out of control... we could never give directions to it, or even list it. We would have to PLAN on a semi worst case scenario. This is what we would need to have figured out before anything was made public.
To clear something up by the way. Hunters isnt on Games Lands as was said. It lies in Rocky Ridge Natural Area. Well, most of it does anyway. There are game lands directly bordering it however.
Ok now a question to anyone who knows:
Really what the hell is the deal with Bear Rocks. In the park? Outta the park? Near the park? Half in half out? Part in most out? Most in part out?
We cant seem to agree on this at all. Rob? Jim?
Peace dudes.
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fleamodee
Jul 21, 2004, 4:57 PM
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Bear rocks is on private land, you can see the posted signs as you walk in and people have talked to the land owner. Now rob may be talking about some place else due to the directions he gave would cause someone to walk/drive around black mo. for hours trying to find the boulders, even knowing exactly where the place is I still get lost sometimes it's super stealth access to the place. Anyway I agree this thing is absurd, although when false statements are made someone needs to respond with the correct info.
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synrock
Jul 21, 2004, 6:50 PM
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Jess - Just stop making crap up in your head.
I deal with information.
Case in point. Last incident I heard about involving cops at bellefonte - my friend mike f was at the parking area when a cop pulled up. he ask mike (who was standing there with a pack and rope) "you aren't going into that quarry are you?" - "why no officer" and then the guy winked and drove off.
We've talked to the cops - they really are symphathetic but officially they have to say no.
We've talked to the owners - they are symphathetic but officially they have to say no.
And why do you come up with this crap that I advocate climbing at bellefonte because I wrote a guidebook for there 15 years ago? Go ahead and try and buy one of those guidebooks. You'll have a long wait.
I don't make money on them.
As for hunters, I rarely climb there these days and never on weekends or if lots of people are there. You are assuming I climb there alot. Not basing that on observation. In fact, you havn't based any of the things you have been saying on information and observation.
Get out of your own head son. You are still young and you have a chance to put lots of stuff in there - but not if you think you know everything.
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