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ropegirl
May 9, 2002, 8:15 PM
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I was out on the Pacific Coast this past weekend and saw some guys top-roping on a cliff overlooking one of the local beaches. The rocks are great there but there's nothing to anchor to (no bolts, no trees, etc.) They had parked their car (actually it was a small pickup truck) at the top of the cliff and anchored their top rope to the bumper.
I couldn't decide if this was safe or stupid. What do y'all think?
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spank_spank
May 9, 2002, 8:19 PM
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I wouldn't do it.
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robscate
May 9, 2002, 8:21 PM
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bumpers aren't the strongest,so I prefer a frame rail or and axel. this is totaly safe as long as the keys are out of the ignition, the tires are chocked and the parking brake is set full-on. fire departments have been doing this for years. lots of local Mountain rescue groups use this technique too.
Rob c
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crackaddict
May 9, 2002, 8:26 PM
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What Rob said!
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mitchal
May 9, 2002, 8:30 PM
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I prefer the windsheild wiper technique.When you get to a crux and need another inch of reach,just have one of the kids you leave in the car to turn on the wipers.
Perhaps this one should be in the bad advice thread?
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spectral
May 9, 2002, 8:36 PM
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Different cars have various force load limits on the bumper component. Specifically, bumpers are meant to withstand compressive impacts, not sustained tension. I would not trust a bumper, but would definitely opt for the rear axle or (at least) the bottom support frame. Don't forget to check for any sharp edges which could compromise the rope if it happens to move around.
I would not only put the parking brake on, but also put a wedge or a block of some sort behind the back wheel *just in case*. And always back it up with another anchor point.
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robscate
May 9, 2002, 8:36 PM
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I totally disagree with mitchal that this is bad advice. Cmc rope rescue actually teaches techniques of attaching lowering/raising systems to vehicle frames. The forces generated in a fall will not exceed the static force of fritcion holding the car on the road.
(edited for verb tense)
Rob c
[ This Message was edited by: robscate on 2002-05-09 13:37 ]
[ This Message was edited by: robscate on 2002-05-09 13:42 ]
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crazywacky
May 9, 2002, 8:52 PM
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I think he was talking about his proposed "Windshield Wiper" technique.
Not the bumper part...
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robscate
May 9, 2002, 8:57 PM
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Hopefully he is just talking about the wiper trick, if he is then I apologize and add this. Just jack up the car and wrap the rope aroung the drive wheel. If you cant make that last move, just have someone hit the gas.....
rob
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stewbabby
May 9, 2002, 8:58 PM
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Also always remember when doing this that both gas and grease are VERY BAD for ropes and webbing. If you use webbing for this anchor I would never use it again. Any solvent will compromise the integrity of your rope or webbing
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robscate
May 9, 2002, 9:04 PM
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the best way to avoid the grease/oil/petroliuem based car byproducts is to use some old fire hose (if you can find some ) just feed the webbing/rope through the middle of the old hose before wrapping it around the axel/framerail.
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melonhead
May 9, 2002, 9:09 PM
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I'd do it. Sounds safe enough for me. As mentioned above, watch out for greases, oil, etc.
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fo_d
May 9, 2002, 9:19 PM
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Just one other thing I would do if I had to use a car for an ancore, make sure it was parked sideways and engage the parking brake and put blocks on a couple of the wheels. I'm still not sure I would do this, I can see where it might be ok but I can also think of many things that could go wrong, I think I'd like to have someone I trusted staying with the car.
Les
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hunter
May 9, 2002, 9:47 PM
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Be my luck someone would steal the vehicle while I was on rope.
Other than that I'm sure it would work fine with the wheels chocked and brake set. I'd opt to mount to a frame mounted hitch though. Gets you attached to the frame, no sharp edges, and sticks out from under the vehicle so that it doesn't get greese or gas on the anchor rope.
Hunter
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clymber
May 9, 2002, 10:05 PM
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I personally would set everything off of the trailer hitch with the D shackle I use to pull out trucks that get stuck when 4 wheeling. Only thing on that is a bit off mud. If its strong enough to pull outa 3500 truck it will hold my 150lds body
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jono13
May 9, 2002, 11:52 PM
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i dont think i would, id rather solo
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ponyryan
May 10, 2002, 3:11 AM
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About the car being able to take a fall: you'd be set up TR so the impact shouldn't be that great (providing there is no penalty slack in the line).
About anchoring to a bumper: I once tried to pull my car (1974 bmw 2002) out of a very slight ditch by the bumper. The column supporting my bumper actually came apart from the bumper when the tow cable slid into it. Moral of the story: DON'T ANCHOR TO YOUR BUMPER!
Last thought is that for this to work right, you'll either have to park your car very very close to the edge of the cliff (not a good idea) or get a guard for the rope to run on along the edge of the cliff to prevent the rope from being damaged on the edge. I'd say to park your car a ways away and have someone watch it. If it looks to be moving after a fall, decide your next course of action. Whether that be to come down off the wall, or get to the top without taking another fall.
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phreakdigital
May 10, 2002, 3:41 AM
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i have repelled from the undercarage of my ford escort...and i didn't have any problems with it.
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fiend
May 10, 2002, 3:55 AM
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I think it was John Long in Rock Jocks, Wall Rats and Hang Dogs who wrote a funny story about a couple of guys who TR'd of their car and ended up pulling it partially off the cliff or something.
Can't remember, was a while ago that I read it
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krustyklimber
May 10, 2002, 4:04 AM
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John Long is an admitted strecher of the truth, if he told me his name was John Long I would have my doubts!
I fell for the Oliver Moon thing in the 80's, and I'm still pissed at Long!
Jeff
[ This Message was edited by: krustyklimber on 2002-05-09 21:05 ]
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toprope_media
May 10, 2002, 11:23 AM
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That new Xterra commeical doesn't do much to dispell the need to use your bumper as an anchor.
You all know the one. The two mountain dew dudes pull up to some cliff, harness up and anchor themselves to the bumper and away they go.
A million uses and counting? Damn, their ad agency had got that demographic nailed down.
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kyhangdog
May 10, 2002, 12:22 PM
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I've anchored to worst... so have most of you. If the choice is a tiny tree or a bumper... I'll take the bumper.
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beyond_gravity
May 10, 2002, 11:34 PM
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I know the trailer hitch on my explorer (the only only conected to the bumper) Is only rated to 350 lbs. I'd trust the one conected right to the frame of the car (rated to 4000lb)
Rapping is one thing, as it's only your weight, but a TR fall can generate more force, espically if your belayer is not paying attension.
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jono13
May 10, 2002, 11:44 PM
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yes, yes of course
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awsclimber
May 11, 2002, 6:04 AM
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Most cars have four attachment points right under the corners of the car, welded or cut right into the chasis. solid metal, so there wouldn't be any problem clipping a biner and equalizing. I was also thinking, what about the attachment points for the middle seat of a van. When you take it out there are four attaachement point, how would they work?
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