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krga20
Sep 16, 2004, 3:45 AM
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I was wondering if anyone has any input about their experiences / training for harder 12's. It seems I've hit the glass ceiling...
thanks!
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mungeclimber
Sep 16, 2004, 4:43 AM
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I don't climb at that level, but I know for a fact that some folks I've know about and also some that I've read about who ended up weight training to supplement the over trained climbing muscles, it really helped both for endurance, power, and reducing injuries (depending on how they weight trained).
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kalcario
Sep 16, 2004, 4:43 AM
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Train endurance so you can do v3/4 pumped.
But wait...what if you already have so much endurance that you're *not getting* pumped on the easy sections of the 12+'s? Then all you have to be able to do is v3/4 moves off the deck without your crash pads and spotters...
sport climbing begins at 12c...12+ is EASY
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fluxus
Sep 16, 2004, 8:44 PM
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In reply to: I was wondering if anyone has any input about their experiences / training for harder 12's. It seems I've hit the glass ceiling... thanks!
its difficult to offer help without specific information. For example, what does your pyramid look like how many 12bs, 12as, 11ds, 11cs, and 11bs have you done. and how reciently have you done them? How many tries does 12b take you now? What is your on-sight level?
also What is your current bouldering level, flash and with multiple tries?
How many days a week are you climbing?
What type of 12c/d are you trying to do?
How long have you been climbing?
that sort of thing
cheers
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rockprodigy
Sep 16, 2004, 8:46 PM
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d's are always hard. Just go right into 13a, then you can work on all the easy routes that are overated so the FA can hang that magic number on them.
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slablizard
Sep 16, 2004, 9:24 PM
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That's what I call a motivational speak man! :twisted:
Agree!
In reply to: sport climbing begins at 12c...12+ is EASY |
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bvb
Sep 16, 2004, 9:32 PM
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In reply to: That's what I call a motivational speak man! :twisted: Agree! In reply to: sport climbing begins at 12c...12+ is EASY
posuers. to me, "easy" means i flash it, or do it with little effort in two or three tries.
go to rumney and try any 12c or d on the waimea wall, or perhaps "monsters of the id", then report back to us all on your experiences.
pfffffffft
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superjosh
Sep 16, 2004, 9:39 PM
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I second kalcario. Climbing hard 5.12 is all about climbing V3 and V4 when your pumped. Learn to do that and you'll be all set.
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slablizard
Sep 16, 2004, 9:39 PM
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TR it first and work every move as you would do in any other route. If you can't do a move after maybe 5 tries, skip it and try the rest of the route, you might find out that you can do 40% of the route the first time.
Personally I get pretty obsessed with routes if I like them.
Keep trying, setting everitime the goal of going one move higher...or more if you can. Try the clippings also on TR. Pretend you are clipping a quick and the rope.
Try to find the best feet sequence, don't just pump your way up campusing. You'll need all your energies. Rest! Every restpoint you find...use it!It's climbing, not a marathon
Most of all...FOCUS! It's amazing what the right mental energy can do. I prefer quiet when I climb, better than the " Good job! Come on You can do it" kind of encouragement that actually deconcentrates me.
Having the right partner is crucial too. There should be a little healthy competitiveness bethween you and your partner. That means avoid if you can somebody that is a lot less stronger (or motivated to climb hard ) than you.
Other than that, obviously you need to have the base power to move on the rock.
In reply to: I was wondering if anyone has any input about their experiences / training for harder 12's. It seems I've hit the glass ceiling... thanks! |
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slablizard
Sep 16, 2004, 9:43 PM
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Believe me, I'll love to go Rumney! When I say motivational I mean that should push you ( and me ) to try harder! Not that is actually easy.
Even if I'm sure 12c is easy if you climb 13s
Very subjective.
ANd yes, I found some 12b very easy for me, since they were exactly in my climbing style...
No posing intended.
In reply to: In reply to: That's what I call a motivational speak man! :twisted: Agree! In reply to: sport climbing begins at 12c...12+ is EASY posuers. to me, "easy" means i flash it, or do it with little effort in two or three tries. go to rumney and try any 12c or d on the waimea wall, or perhaps "monsters of the id", then report back to us all on your experiences. pfffffffft |
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rockprodigy
Sep 16, 2004, 9:51 PM
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In reply to: I second kalcario. Climbing hard 5.12 is all about climbing V3 and V4 when your pumped. Learn to do that and you'll be all set.
I disagree with this, for me at least. I suppose there are some 12c/d routes that have no moves harder than V4, but many have harder cruxes. For me, I've always found that if I can do the crux, I can do the route...as the great Yaniro once said: "If you can't do the moves, then there is nothing to endure."
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slablizard
Sep 16, 2004, 10:06 PM
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That's cool, but you also have to get to the move...you need endurance to do that .Especially on lead.
Unless the crux is at the second bolt..
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therealdeal
Sep 16, 2004, 10:21 PM
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In reply to: d's are always hard. Just go right into 13a, then you can work on all the easy routes that are overated so the FA can hang that magic number on them.
i would agree...just go ahead and chase the number.
rifle is the perfect example...many of the 12ds are harder than a number of the 13bs...
if sport climbing starts at 12c i'm bummed...'cause i'm even worse than i thought!
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slablizard
Sep 16, 2004, 10:29 PM
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Don't be bummed. Be stronger ! :twisted:
In reply to: In reply to: d's are always hard. Just go right into 13a, then you can work on all the easy routes that are overated so the FA can hang that magic number on them. i would agree...just go ahead and chase the number. rifle is the perfect example...many of the 12ds are harder than a number of the 13bs... if sport climbing starts at 12c i'm bummed...'cause i'm even worse than i thought! |
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climbsomething
Sep 16, 2004, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: if sport climbing starts at 12c i'm bummed...'cause i'm even worse than i thought!
Oh, and I know a guy who's going straight from 12c to 13b. I think he's finally going to leave "moderate" and it only took him 20 years :P
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chimp-chimp
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Sep 16, 2004, 11:55 PM
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I personally don't believe in the whole pyramid system that many climbers adhere to. I don't think you need to have a certain number of 11a's under your belt before you can begin to work 11b's (or whatever grade!). If you want to climb harder, you could try running laps on something that you can just barely send (something right at your limit). It will certainly help with your endurance.
I dunno if anyone mentioned this yet, but bouldering always helps me to break plateaus in my route climbing.
Also, try and take a road trip. A few weeks outside, climbing almost everyday skyrocketed my climbing.
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rockprodigy
Sep 17, 2004, 12:51 AM
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I think when you're at the 12+ level vs. the 11- level, the pyramids become much more applicable.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 17, 2004, 1:03 AM
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For myself, given when I started climbing. I went to 12b with a trad ethic of no hanging and a few tries at most. (on routes or boulders)
All it took to move to 12c/d was discarding that ethic and working the heck out of a route.
Don't know where you are at right now, but if your project level has topped out. I would work on my OS level for a while, then do a project.
If you do not know every hand and foothold on the route, you do not have it wired.
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actionfigure
Sep 17, 2004, 1:07 AM
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In reply to: d's are always hard. Just go right into 13a, then you can work on all the easy routes that are overated so the FA can hang that magic number on them.
Yeah, just start projecting 13a and if you commit your time to it you'll be doing hard 12's very soon. Careful not to injure tendons though.
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benpullin
Sep 17, 2004, 1:41 AM
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In reply to: I personally don't believe in the whole pyramid system that many climbers adhere to.
I definitely don't think that you have to have a certain number of ascents at one grade to move on to the next, but there is something to be said for having a wide base. IMO, it makes you a better climber.
It's nice to be able to send a hard project at your local crag, but if you don't have a good base, you'll have to climb significantly lower grades at crags you're not used to.
I couldn't agree more that going on long road trips does wonders for your climbing.
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fluxus
Sep 17, 2004, 4:34 AM
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In reply to: i would agree...just go ahead and chase the number. rifle is the perfect example...many of the 12ds are harder than a number of the 13bs...
Which ones? :shock:
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fluxus
Sep 17, 2004, 4:55 AM
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In reply to: I personally don't believe in the whole pyramid system that many climbers adhere to. I don't think you need to have a certain number of 11a's under your belt before you can begin to work 11b's (or whatever grade!). If you want to climb harder, you could try running laps on something that you can just barely send (something right at your limit). It will certainly help with your endurance. I dunno if anyone mentioned this yet, but bouldering always helps me to break plateaus in my route climbing. Also, try and take a road trip. A few weeks outside, climbing almost everyday skyrocketed my climbing.
I am suprised by a lot of what I am reading here. at least two people saying don't do a pyramid, others saying work the heck out of the route, others saying skip a grade. Is this for real?
As for the above post. No you don't have to have a certain # of 11a's under your belt, but a pyramid is not a law, its merely a great tool to become a solid climber, to make lasting gains in ability, to make sure you get enough experience to keep progressing, to set and meet goals, to quantify your experience, to learn strengthes and weaknesses, to plan each day of climbing and training, to know what you should be capable of at any point in time. But beyond these trivial points a pyramid is useless.
of course I have a long track record of not letting climbers go to the next level until they have finished the one below it because they go throught their pyramids faster that way, they feel like they have earned the next level, and it makes them hungry.
Running laps on something at or near your limit will not improve endurance. Routes of that high an intensity will keep you well in your local anaerobic range if you try to lap down on them. In fact its not likely that many climbers could do laps on something of that high an intensity.
cheers
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kalcario
Sep 17, 2004, 5:19 AM
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* I suppose there are some 12c/d routes that have no moves harder than V4, but many have harder cruxes. For me, I've always found that if I can do the crux, I can do the route...as the great Yaniro once said: "If you can't do the moves, then there is nothing to endure."*
I would prefer if my opinions were not shot down in flames by people who have freed El Cap with no falls...please refrain from posting thank you
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curt
Sep 17, 2004, 5:31 AM
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In reply to: * I suppose there are some 12c/d routes that have no moves harder than V4, but many have harder cruxes. For me, I've always found that if I can do the crux, I can do the route...as the great Yaniro once said: "If you can't do the moves, then there is nothing to endure."* I would prefer if my opinions were not shot down in flames by people who have freed El Cap with no falls...please refrain from posting thank you
We are talking about trad routes here, right? Not sport wanking homo poseur "I wish I could really climb" routes, aren't we?
Curt
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hardmanknott
Sep 17, 2004, 7:07 AM
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Let your motivation dictate what kind of pyramid you should or shouldn't have.
<gratuitous spray alert>
My first redpoint was a scary 10b--onsight.
The next hardest route was an 11d.
The next hardest route after that was a 12c.
Since I'm an old fart, I then throttled back a bit and settled for a 12d.
So how's that for a pyramid?
gratuitous spray alert>
I think the best advice is to find the method that works for you.
I only had some success because I obsessively worked the routes
into oblivion. I think it would be better to be able to onsight hard routes.
That's where technique comes in -- and is something I still suck at.
I think it's smarter (and certainly more fun) to do a bunch of routes
below your limit while you get stronger and learn technique.
By far the most important thing is to not get injured.
I have been extremely careful to avoid any finger injuries,
and have had a blast climbing nothing but easy trad routes for
months on end. That's also why my name is Hardman Knott.
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