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mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 7:14 PM
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Swollen Knuckles
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My knuckles are swollen and sore on my middle and ring fingers on both hands. Typically after I climb this happens but last night, I bouldered indoors and they are far more swollen than normal. I am treating with ice and Advil today. The right middle finger is most swollen and I have it taped so that it will remain straight when I type (this feels pretty good). What I'm wondering is if anyone else experiences this? Is their any way to prevent my knuckles from swelling after I climb? I used to have tendon issues on those same fingers. The tendons feel fine on the palm side of my hand. Are there tendons up above as well?


And no, I WILL NOT go see a doctor over something like this.


rkhali


Sep 23, 2004, 7:18 PM
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And no, I WILL NOT go see a doctor over something like this.

Wise... specially since you had tendon issues on those same fingers.


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 7:19 PM
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In reply to:
And no, I WILL NOT go see a doctor over something like this.

Wise... specially since you had tendon issues on those same fingers.

And the first a$$hole steps up to the plate! Good job.

I already saw a doc a while ago and he told me to stop climbing.

If you can't answer the question, don't respond to my post!

And for your fellow brain dead, here are my questions again:

In reply to:
I'm wondering is if anyone else experiences this? Is their any way to prevent my knuckles from swelling after I climb? The tendons feel fine on the palm side of my hand. Are there tendons up above as well?


rkhali


Sep 23, 2004, 7:25 PM
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And the first a$$hole steps up to the plate! Good job.

I already saw a doc and he told me to stop climbing.

If you can't answer the question, don't respond to my post!

I don't think anyone likes to stop when they get injured. But unfortunately sometimes that's what you've got to do, or it keeps gettings worse.
Sorry, I didn't mean to piss you off that much.


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 7:25 PM
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Mmmm'kay, would you BOTH please chill and play nice?

Thanks,
Martha

Yes. Please and Thank You.


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 7:30 PM
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And the first a$$hole steps up to the plate! Good job.

I already saw a doc and he told me to stop climbing.

If you can't answer the question, don't respond to my post!

I don't think anyone likes to stop when they get injured. But unfortunately sometimes that's what you've got to do, or it keeps gettings worse.
Sorry, I didn't mean to piss you off that much.

You didn't piss me off. I'm just mean. Sorry.

I'm wondering if anyone else experiences this. It may be my joints, not my tendons. But I don't know my own body enough to know even if there are tendons in that area.


crankenstein


Sep 23, 2004, 7:59 PM
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I have the same thing going on and have had for 20 years. I can tell how long it's been since I climbed just by how easy or hard it is to put on my wedding ring. When I climb hard I can't get my ring on. When I haven't climbed for a couple of weeks it almost slides off my finger. I can sympathize with you, but I can't really offer any advice other than saying that advil seems to help.


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 8:01 PM
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I have the same thing going on and have had for 20 years. I can tell how long it's been since I climbed just by how easy or hard it is to put on my wedding ring. When I climb hard I can't get my ring on. When I haven't climbed for a couple of weeks it almost slides off my finger. I can sympathize with you, but I can't really offer any advice other than saying that advil seems to help.

Yeah, the Advil is good stuff. I'm amazed at how much the swelling has gone down in the past 2 hours.


Partner calamity_chk


Sep 23, 2004, 8:03 PM
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Some bio-trivia - Tendons connect bone to muscle. In your hands, they enable you to bend and straighten your fingers - the muscles which actually move your fingers are located up in your forearm, not in your fingers. The most common and difficult problem that people have with a tendon injury is stiffness - losing the ability to either fully bend or straighten the finger.

Personally, I think the problem sounds serious - you should probably consider amputation. Kidding. I've had similar problems and glucosamine helped. If it continues, you might consider seeing a different doc just to be sure that you're not causing permanent damage - especially if it's the middle knuckle that's hurting. That's apparently the one that's most susceptible to long-term damage, and the one that's most difficult to repair once damaged.

I say this mostly because it'd suck for me to lose my rope gun. ;)

amber


andy_reagan


Sep 23, 2004, 8:04 PM
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do you warmup and warmdown thoroughly, msheep?


gds


Sep 23, 2004, 8:06 PM
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And ice. Ice is really under rated for these types of conditions- at least by recreational athletes. Pro athletes are always icing down after workouts. Important word is after. You don't want to apply ice before.

I've had issues with all my finger joints for years. I spent lots of time in karate training and that is brutal on finger joints. Ice and ibuprofen was always the key.


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 8:13 PM
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do you warmup and warmdown thoroughly, msheep?

I don't think so. I really noticed it earlier this summer after doing long routes. How can I warm my fingers up before a long climb? Maybe there is something I can do on the approach? Last night before bouldering, I didn't warm up at all either. The routes that I started with seemed to be pretty burley on the fingers.


rangerfan94


Sep 23, 2004, 8:27 PM
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Stretching each finger individually and each hand as a whole should help before climbing/bouldering. As said in a previous post ice can help. I would try soaking in epsom salts. It's suppose to be good for swollen feet so it should work for hands/fingers. Just take it easy and don't pop something!


rangerfan94


Sep 23, 2004, 8:32 PM
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Here's a link that gives some uses for epsom salts.

http://www.care2.com/...s/solutions/self/290


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 8:34 PM
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In reply to:
Here's a link that gives some uses for epsom salts.

http://www.care2.com/...s/solutions/self/290

Hey! Thanks! As far as stretching the fingers, does that consist of just bending them backwards and forwards?


dsqrd


Sep 23, 2004, 8:37 PM
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Hey, I have the same problem and haven't come up with a better solution (yet) than advil and ice.

It's definitely worse when I boulder.

anybody know a good (as in helpful with climbing injuries) sports med doc in SF? (might as well use the med insurance that my corporate indenturing allows...)


Partner neuroshock


Sep 23, 2004, 8:39 PM
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my middle & ring fingers' middle knuckle (both hands) tend to swell after climbing hard. for me, there's some loose correlation between bouldering/climbing hard on crimpy problems/routes and the swelling.

for prevention/recovery, what i've found works is (note: i have no medical background, nor did i get consultation) to stretch out thoroughly both before and after, be consciously aware of warming up gradually/properly, ibuprofin afterwards, icing afterwards (if i feel it's severe enough to warrant), and periodically massaging those joints (even when not climbing, say, while at my desk at work).

most importantly, to listen to my body and to know when to call it quits before it gets too bad.


crotch


Sep 23, 2004, 8:42 PM
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But I don't know my own body enough to know even if there are tendons in that area.

Do yourself a favor and buy

http://images.amazon.com/...8819.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0914168819/qid=1095972040/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-2412801-0872965?v=glance&s=books


rangerfan94


Sep 23, 2004, 8:51 PM
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As far as stretching the fingers, does that consist of just bending them backwards and forwards?
In reply to:

That's the usual method but another exercise is to stretch the fingers out like a fan and hold for ten seconds, relax, then make a fist and hold for ten seconds. Repeat 5 to 10 times or whatever feel comfortable.


jklinke


Sep 23, 2004, 8:57 PM
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I remember Clyde Soles' book (Climbing: Training for Peak Performance) including stretching exercises for fingers and hands. I have been doing rehab for my injured index finger (rotated it 180 deg in its socket where it's attached to the hand) for almost three years now and I still don't have full range of motion back (maybe 60%). Went to PT and a specialist, but they both said that those kind of soft tissue injuries take a long time to heal and that there's not much more I could do. Even surgery would not help.

Maybe I'll try the glucosamine that amber_chk suggested.


une


Sep 23, 2004, 8:59 PM
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I've been having similar problems with my knuckles as well. I always figgured that between climbing at night, typing during the day I would be doing some damage but untill recently it hasn't been bad. About a month ago my fingers would ache when I woke up. They still do so I've cut back my climbing to twice a week in the gym. This has helped a bit but I still have soreness the day after I climb.

My solution so far has been to take Aleve. Is Advil better at reducing swelling? Also, does anyone use Bengay, or Icy/Hot on their hands. I've thought about these but never tried them.


crankingclimber


Sep 23, 2004, 9:02 PM
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Glucosamine is a miracle drug.

A couple of years ago I had this same problem, in a bad way. At first I thought it was just general soreness, and that I would get over it. Not so. I over did it one time by bouldering outdoors all day, and then going indoors that night to round off a killer workout. Made my muscles stronger I'm sure, but the next morning I woke up and my knuckles were so swollen that I litterally couldn't close my fingers around a door knob, let alone open it. Just to make it to the shower I had to grab the door knob between the palms of both hands and twist. Several weeks off are what it took to recover, along with ice and ibuprofen.

I kept using ibuprofen, with fairly good results, for another year, and then discovered the miracle that is glucosamine. I started taking the recommended dosage of this stuff, and felt a difference in a matter of weeks. I then went to Yosemite for a month and climbed harder than I've ever climbed in my life, and didn't have a knuckle problem the entire trip. Since then I can boulder crimps to my hearts content, and suffer VERY little soreness whatsoever.

That being said, I know people who've used glucosamine and seen no results. I think it completely depends on how your individual body absorbs the nutrients, how it distributes them, how your body takes care of it's own knuckles, age, etc. All I know is that for me, it helps, immeasurabley at that.

Will


reno


Sep 23, 2004, 9:41 PM
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Human Anatomy, Lesson 2: The Fingers.

Around the joints in the body is a fibrous sheath that is called synovial tissue. This tissue is more-or-less uniform and contains a small amount of fluid, much like a lubricant. This fluid is called... synovial fluid. (See how easy they make it? That's so simple minded folk like myself can understand it.)

A thickened part of that synovial sheath is commonly known as a ligament, by the way.

Now, the purpose of the synovial fluid is to lubricate the joint, so that when you bend your fingers, you don't get friction (which can hurt -- See "Human Disease Pathophysiology, Lesson 95: Arthritis.")

"Cracking your knuckles" is no more than creating a small opening in that sheath, and thereby releasing the pressure within the joint. Hence, the "pop" or "crack."

After a long day of climbing, where you repeatedly bend/straighten your fingers (unless you're climbing at Indian Creek, where straight fingers and hand jams will get you through,) you've released a bit of that synovial fluid. The body, in an attempt to compensate, will make extra synovial fluid. This extra fluid, combined with fluids released during the inflammation process, causes swelling.

There's really no sure-fire way to stop this from happening. It's gonna happen, and all you can do is treat it when it does.

The standard therapy, in the immediate moment, is application of cryotherapy (cold) to the area. An ice bag, applied to the hands for about 15 minutes, after climbing, will help limit swelling, and facilitate reduction of the inflammatory process (histamine release, hyperosmolarity of cellular fluids, etc.)




HOWEVER!




Since it is rare that one has a bag of ice cubes handy after a long multi-pitch route, one must find a suitable, and more logistically feasable alternative.

Try this (it works for me...) Get thee six bottles of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Keep 'em cold by immersion in Boulder Creek. After climbing, plunge your hand into the creek (the technique is straightforward, if complicated... knees bent, back straight, feet shoulder-width apart, etc.) and grasp the individual bottles one at a time. Hold said bottle until it becomes warm or emtpy, whichever comes first, and repeat.

One set of three grabs per hand. May be repeated as needed, but such repetition may make one so fatigued as to be unable to safely operate a motor vehicle, so make arangements beforehand.

Oh, and take two aspirin and call me a week before Thanksgiving, so we can discuss your progress. Wouldn't want you hampered at Red Rocks.

That is all.

"Nurse? Can you call the next patient, please?"


mother_sheep


Sep 23, 2004, 10:07 PM
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In reply to:
Human Anatomy, Lesson 2: The Fingers.

Around the joints in the body is a fibrous sheath that is called synovial tissue. This tissue is more-or-less uniform and contains a small amount of fluid, much like a lubricant. This fluid is called... synovial fluid. (See how easy they make it? That's so simple minded folk like myself can understand it.)

A thickened part of that synovial sheath is commonly known as a ligament, by the way.

Now, the purpose of the synovial fluid is to lubricate the joint, so that when you bend your fingers, you don't get friction (which can hurt -- See "Human Disease Pathophysiology, Lesson 95: Arthritis.")

"Cracking your knuckles" is no more than creating a small opening in that sheath, and thereby releasing the pressure within the joint. Hence, the "pop" or "crack."

After a long day of climbing, where you repeatedly bend/straighten your fingers (unless you're climbing at Indian Creek, where straight fingers and hand jams will get you through,) you've released a bit of that synovial fluid. The body, in an attempt to compensate, will make extra synovial fluid. This extra fluid, combined with fluids released during the inflammation process, causes swelling.

There's really no sure-fire way to stop this from happening. It's gonna happen, and all you can do is treat it when it does.

The standard therapy, in the immediate moment, is application of cryotherapy (cold) to the area. An ice bag, applied to the hands for about 15 minutes, after climbing, will help limit swelling, and facilitate reduction of the inflammatory process (histamine release, hyperosmolarity of cellular fluids, etc.)




HOWEVER!




Since it is rare that one has a bag of ice cubes handy after a long multi-pitch route, one must find a suitable, and more logistically feasable alternative.

Try this (it works for me...) Get thee six bottles of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Keep 'em cold by immersion in Boulder Creek. After climbing, plunge your hand into the creek (the technique is straightforward, if complicated... knees bent, back straight, feet shoulder-width apart, etc.) and grasp the individual bottles one at a time. Hold said bottle until it becomes warm or emtpy, whichever comes first, and repeat.

One set of three grabs per hand. May be repeated as needed, but such repetition may make one so fatigued as to be unable to safely operate a motor vehicle, so make arangements beforehand.

Oh, and take two aspirin and call me a week before Thanksgiving, so we can discuss your progress. Wouldn't want you hampered at Red Rocks.

That is all.

"Nurse? Can you call the next patient, please?"

HAHAHAHAAH! Reno, you're the bestest in the westes!


reno


Sep 23, 2004, 10:09 PM
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HAHAHAHAAH! Reno, you're the bestest in the westes!

:oops: :oops: :oops:

Awww, shucks.

T'was nothing.

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