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organic
Sep 14, 2004, 2:31 AM
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So I have been training hard for the upcoming Triple Crown and hit a plateau for a few weeks. Well then I decided to start working my core strength. Someone taught me, hanging from and overhang or rock rings lift your feet up and touch your hands or around that area and come down slowly not swinging wow they build up great strength. Anyways so I feel way more confident on my feet now, my body tension has increased, so when I step on tiny feet I feel more comfortable. I never knew that core strength actually helps with footwork! What are your guys views on core strength? Do you work it much? Does it help?
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corpse
Sep 14, 2004, 3:02 AM
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Although my discipline stinks, core strength is certainly way important. I do a basic amount of exercises to improve core strength - but for me, it's mostly so this dead dude doesn't have a wrecked back.. strong abs is certainly part of core strength - and your abs do ALOT.. Just as you hang and pull your feet up, you obviously feel your abs doing most of the work, which can make it easier to control where your feet go.. (Think of me bumping my heel hook up to that second ledge in so ill)
Another thing I do (still not religiously enough), is lay on your side, and support your weight on your elbow and keep your body straight (I hope this description is good), when you do that you'll feel your side muscles (floor side) get tight to keep your body stiff.
Get one of those exercise balls - they are awesome for core strength. I started to use one in physical therapy, and they rule. The crunches you do on em are WICKED - your body is stretched backwards (comfortably), and you do your crunches - and this not only stretches your abs, but it forces you to use more of them. In a short amount of time, I can feel a BIG difference.
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missedyno
Sep 14, 2004, 5:10 PM
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i've had similar personal experiences. I've been concentrating on core strength for a while now and i've noticed a great deal of improvement in control and technique.
Enough of a change to encourage me to keep it up!
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gritstone
Sep 14, 2004, 5:17 PM
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I've found that core strength is a huge deal when climbing. Granted, I'm a runner and surefer as well, but if your core is up to par, your all-around body tension is better. Rock and Ice has a whole article on core strength in the new issue with exercises and stuff.
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deleted
Deleted
Sep 14, 2004, 5:28 PM
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[quote:a78ab808e8="corpse"]Get one of those exercise balls...your body is stretched backwards (comfortably), and you do your crunches...[/quote:a78ab808e8]
I may have misunderstood you, but I hear that it's bad for your lower spine if it bends backwards during crunches. I try not to let it go past straight. Be careful.
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jt512
Sep 14, 2004, 5:49 PM
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In reply to: The more I study what happens in the middle body during movement the more of a mystery it becomes. There is no question in my mind that the middle body, that is the hip joints, pelvis and lumbar spine are of the greatest importance in climbing movement. It not just about body tension though, this is also a place where a great deal of movement is initiated. The one thing I would say is that the abs are only one small piece of the picture. In many many climbing moves we extend both the hips and spine so we want to train the extensor muscles even more than we train the abs. As far as I can tell the main role of the abs in climbing movement is to stablize the pelvis.
Maybe that explains a paradox I've wondered about for a long time. I've always thought it's the lower back muscles that are mainly used to keep your feet sticking to small holds on a steep wall, since you have to push with that leg. If that is true then I always wondered why boulderers are so obsessed with abs training.
-Jay
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nrvna963
Sep 14, 2004, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: So I have been training hard for the upcoming Triple Crown |
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pbjosh
Sep 14, 2004, 8:38 PM
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In reply to: If that is true then I always wondered why boulderers are so obsessed with abs training. -Jay
To look good. Duh.
On steep terrain which muscles get used depends on body position and what you're doing with your legs. I agree that pushing feet onto small holds is going to require more than your abs. But I've personally given myself extremely sore abdominals trying to toe hook - hand match and then remove the hand and slowly lower out so as to hang from one hand and one toe hook - to the point that I thought I would vomit when I got out of bed the following morning. There is a lot of use of the abs in this position. Likewise, I've given myself a very sore left rear deltoid and left lat doing a move that involved pressing off a left gaston and right foot that were quite wide (thus a stretched out body trying to stay tense with no support from the other two limbs).
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gds
Sep 14, 2004, 8:54 PM
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In reply to: I'm an advocate for the idea that we want to strengthen ALL the muscles that move the spine, pelvis and hips not just the abs.
And, in fact, that is a good working definiton of core strength.
As a BTW. In many sports core strength is the key strength, far more important than legs, arms, etc. Core strength is the foundation from which other strength comes. Tennis players, golfers, baseball batters, boxers, karateka all develop power from rotational movement for which core strength is key.
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corpse
Sep 14, 2004, 9:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Get one of those exercise balls...your body is stretched backwards (comfortably), and you do your crunches... I may have misunderstood you, but I hear that it's bad for your lower spine if it bends backwards during crunches. I try not to let it go past straight. Be careful.
I understand your concern, quite a bit.. I "suffer" from severe muscle spazms in my lower right back, and my back can get thrown out of wack really easily. I was really skeptical about the ball too - but I use it everyday now.. I do about 15 crunches, keel over from my abs burnin up.. Rest a bit, and do as many as I can till I keel over.. rest and once more.. I'll try and do this twice a day if I'm up for it. My back only slightly bends backwards, which the ball does a GREAT job of supporting the back.. I voiced my concern to the PT about this, who works in the same practice as my chiro, and thats what he recommended. My back has been doing TREMENDOUSLY better.. However, if the ball is too much under my butt, to the point where I can stretch backwards too far, then it WILL hurt - I postition the ball under my lower back, so the backward stretch is not too bad, but enough to get my abs to stretch.
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fluxus
Sep 14, 2004, 9:50 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If that is true then I always wondered why boulderers are so obsessed with abs training. -Jay On steep terrain which muscles get used depends on body position and what you're doing with your legs. I agree that pushing feet onto small holds is going to require more than your abs. But I've personally given myself extremely sore abdominals trying to toe hook - hand match and then remove the hand and slowly lower out so as to hang from one hand and one toe hook - to the point that I thought I would vomit when I got out of bed the following morning. There is a lot of use of the abs in this position. Likewise, I've given myself a very sore left rear deltoid and left lat doing a move that involved pressing off a left gaston and right foot that were quite wide (thus a stretched out body trying to stay tense with no support from the other two limbs).
Without any hositlity, what exactly is the point here? Your description is vague and all you are really saying is "dude, I use my abs." that's fine. But . . .
Without knowing the hows and whys, that is the mechanics behind different moves we can't understand what role specific muscles play in movement. Are they prime movers, do they stabilize a bone or joint? What other muscles are at work? what are the actions of the joints in question? I think Jay was addressing the issue on a less superficial level than you appear to be.
peace
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solan
Sep 15, 2004, 10:47 AM
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Aye! Have any of you tried the drills in Pavel Tsatsouline's Bullet proof Abs?
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jakemojo13
Sep 15, 2004, 1:02 PM
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I started doing my wife's pilates video because my flexibility stunk. It has done wonders for core strength and flexibility. I don't know if it will give me six pack abs or not, but I think it develops you in a way that is very applicable to climbing.
I use the Maury Winsor dvd bought off of the TV infomercial. Warning: working out to videos does not feel particularly manly......but you can always close the blinds.
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fluxus
Sep 15, 2004, 4:47 PM
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In reply to: Warning: working out to videos does not feel particularly manly......but you can always close the blinds.
my wife got me a Pilates kit for father's day, and my brother-in-law was visably amused by the pastell colors on the packaging and pictures of skinny women on the box. . . . so I ckicked his ass, yea!
I close the blinds every time. :oops:
peace
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anykineclimb
Oct 1, 2004, 11:19 AM
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In reply to: Aye! Have any of you tried the drills in Pavel Tsatsouline's Bullet proof Abs?
Pavel ROCKS!!
someone give me money for Kettlebells...
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eastvillage
Oct 1, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Hey Gritstone, I'm also surf and run.
Core strength is key to all physical activity. I take a Pilates class at my gym once a week along with, running, gym, etc. Pilates is very good and very difficult, but since all the focus is on your core strength, the results are amazing. Strong core strength also reduces back and knee injuries.
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sul-pont
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Oct 1, 2004, 1:10 PM
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I agree completely that pilates is terrific for core strength and translates well to climbing. It also helps balance and concentration. I've found a routine that combines pilates with some yoga moves works well for me. It may be no coincidence that Steph Davis practiced the warrior pose and other yoga poses repeatedly in order to send a crux move on the Huber pitch of her recent Free Rider free ascent.
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cklein
Oct 1, 2004, 2:11 PM
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Ashtanga yoga is the best thing I've done to help improve my climbing. Although, It helps to find a teacher who emphasizes ab-work during the practice.
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gripontheworld
Oct 1, 2004, 8:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Aye! Have any of you tried the drills in Pavel Tsatsouline's Bullet proof Abs? Pavel ROCKS!! someone give me money for Kettlebells...
Another wicked training device that Pavel recommends for the core is the ab wheel. For $10 at sports authority, it's money well spent.
Here's the device I'm talking about:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/aa/ab.html
Just a simple little wheel. When you can start from a standing position with two hands and roll all the way out and back, the next step is to split the wheels so you have a mini axle. Now you can grab the device with one hand and really work the core.
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mattmax45
Oct 8, 2004, 6:59 AM
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All I can really add to this post is this,
from the core comes great power, monks of tibet and others form the world of martial arts refer to it as CHI (key) or energy, when force is exerted rapidly, a great deal of inner core strength is expended, when an asian man 5'7" 137lbs skip kicked a 360lb punching bag breaking the chain and blowing the bag apart, thats core strength. One of the best methods I personaly know of is System Board Training, developed by the Huber Bro's, the training constists of strengthening the whole body form head to toe. In doing so the body front to back and side to side becomes very strong, strong enough to do front levers all day long, even your feet and toes get strong, and of course you grow wings for lats and tips prefer match stick crimps to play on. The abs and lower back are worked hard to tighten them up for even more core strength, so really there isn't a part that doesn't go through hell, literally.
This is all I know on the matter of achieving core strength, I hope this helps.
Matt.
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pushsendnorcal
Oct 8, 2004, 4:27 PM
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I am a believer of training isolation and intregration phases. Where you start out training the core in parts and then you train the core as a whole
Ex.
Focusing on the abdominals
Dragon Flag
L-hang
Focusing on the obliques
Russian Twist
Saxon Side Bend
Focusing on the lower back
Hyper-extensions
Deadlifts
Intregreation Exercises
Jackknife Wheel
V-ups
Front lever (although this works the upperbody a lot too)
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rice701
Oct 12, 2004, 2:47 AM
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someone told me once that slacklining greatly improved core strength while also improving the obvious balance. I was wondering what yalls opinion of that are?
THanks
Andrew
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sto
Oct 12, 2004, 4:43 PM
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Slacklining won't really help core strength unless you are pretty weak in that area to begin with. If slacklining helps climbing at all (which people disagree about) it would be in the ability to focus intensely and at will.
I heard about a Lynn Hill exercise for core strength which is to do a long easyish horizontal roof problem but between each hand movement drop your legs to vertical and then back up to holds on the roof. Try not to sag your butt. It's harder than it sounds.
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jayson
Oct 23, 2004, 6:41 PM
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This goes to pushsendnorcal; i was wondering if you have a website or any location i can find out information on those exercises you mentioned above? I know how to do some of them but others i do not know.
Thanks Jayson
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on_sight_man
Nov 14, 2004, 5:58 PM
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In reply to: I heard about a Lynn Hill exercise for core strength which is to do a long easyish horizontal roof problem but between each hand movement drop your legs to vertical and then back up to holds on the roof. Try not to sag your butt. It's harder than it sounds.
My problem with exercises in general is that I just don't do them. I climb because it's fun, I don't exercise because it's not. So I was about to post to this forum asking for a core strength excersise that involved actually climbing since it's fun and saw this. I bet this would be fun to do in the gym. Maybe one or two easy overhanging routes (or just jug up any hold)
Any other ideas that are actually fun?
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