|
jm_rip
Jun 6, 2002, 6:18 PM
Post #1 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 9
|
yeah, my subject heading doesnt really relate to my question at all but its catchy right. well my question is this, "i want to set up toprope with webbing by anchoring to a tree. I know that you need at least two points of protection but i'm wondering how you go about setting this system up. any info would be greatly appreciated.
live without boundaries
|
|
|
|
|
radistrad
Jun 6, 2002, 6:25 PM
Post #2 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 800
|
Depending on the size of the tree you may only have to use one tree.. a 60' pine is not going to pull out, a 3' shrub will pull out
I would simply girth hitch two seperate (redundancy) pieces of webbing around the tree, have the lengths the same, you now have your set up..
|
|
|
|
|
jm_rip
Jun 6, 2002, 6:46 PM
Post #3 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 9
|
well i kinda have it on lock that far. what i'm asking is how do i set up the anchor system, like, how to i set it up to hold a rope. and what knot should i use?
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jun 6, 2002, 6:51 PM
Post #4 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
Have you set up TR before? Be sure that you go with someone who knows what they are doing and has set up TR using natural anchors - it can be alot tougher than it looks. Observe them setting up, then ask them to watch you set it up to be sure that it looks good. Some general principles you need to follow: Redundancy -- Like you said, at least 2 anchor points - preferably not just around the tree, but if nothing else is there then it's all you got. Equalized -- your anchors should all come together in the direction of force and be the same length so that if one were to fail, the climber would not fall or swing much at all. Independant -- Anchors need to be independant of each other, if one fails the other one will not fail as well.
The amount of webbing or static line you will need varies greatly depending on the climbs you do - it's good to have a couple of lengths. A 30' static line is generally good, and then 20', 30' and 40' webbing lengths. But again, make sure someone is with you who knows how to set up using natural anchors. Safety counts!
EDIT: Ok it does not sound like you really know how to set this system up. The knots you need are the 'water knot' for webbing - it's an easy overhand knot, but like I said make sure someone is with you who knows!
[ This Message was edited by: howitzer on 2002-06-06 11:52 ]
|
|
|
|
|
jm_rip
Jun 6, 2002, 6:57 PM
Post #5 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 9
|
see thats the problem, nobody who can show me is going. and i thought i needed the waterknot, but wasnt sure. i've seen it set up b/4 so i know the general idea of it. i was just wanting to go over it. really the only part i'm not understanding is how to connect the anchor to the rope. haha
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 6, 2002, 7:07 PM
Post #6 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
jm_rip, unless you want your username to be etched on your gravestone in the near future, I suggest you get some formal climbing instruction and/or do some reading before setting up any topropes. The question you are asking is answered in every basic climbing instruction book ever written. The fact that you have to ask it on-line indicates that you have not read any of these books. You cannot learn to set up topropes safely by asking questions on the internet. You are currently in no position to go out and set up topropes on your own. Doing so will only endanger yourself and your partners. Read. Get instruction.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
jhwnewengland
Jun 6, 2002, 7:08 PM
Post #7 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2002
Posts: 470
|
If you know you can set up a good anchor and only need to connect it to the rope, what you want is to use two biners (preferably locking), opposite and opposed, at the end of the anchor. Opposite means that the gates are on opposite sides of each other, and opposed means that if they happened to be on the same side (like if one biner flipped) then their gates would open up in two different directions, not in the same direction.
Then you just clip the rope through those biners at the half way point or whatever, lock the biners, and toss the rope off the edge.
|
|
|
|
|
tl351698
Jun 6, 2002, 7:08 PM
Post #8 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 5, 2002
Posts: 8
|
make sure you use two locking biners with the gates opposite each other
|
|
|
|
|
jhwnewengland
Jun 6, 2002, 7:10 PM
Post #9 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2002
Posts: 470
|
Although I second jt... if you're at all confused you better find someone who knows what they're doing or read a book with diagrams.
|
|
|
|
|
radistrad
Jun 6, 2002, 7:10 PM
Post #10 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 25, 2002
Posts: 800
|
Lets see.. always use the water knot to tie flat (tubular) webbing, be sure you tie is right...
Once you have tied your webbing to the trees/pro use two (2) locking 'biners (note: the gtaes should be opposed) and clip it to the webbing where the rope is going to go, once you have clipped to the webbing find the middle of the rope and clip it through both (2) 'biners and toss the rope down the cliff. be sure that both ends of the rope reach the ground
Hope this helps..
|
|
|
|
|
howitzer
Jun 6, 2002, 7:12 PM
Post #11 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 2511
|
OK, you really should wait for someone who can go with you then! But if you aren't going to do that, the least we can do is get you set up for what you are going to do. First things first, sling the tree (around at least once) with the webbing, tying a water knot to link the webbing into a loop. You do this with each of your anchors (remember at least 2!). At this point you bring your anchors together at the point of force (where you will be coming up the wall) making sure they are the same lengths, if they are not you can adjust by moving webbing through the water knot. Now tie an over and knot in each anchor (or you can tie a big overhand knot tying all three together) - this is where the rope will anchor into. Then sling two biners through the loops you just created in the webbing - opposing so that the gates make an X when you push them open. Locking biners are even better to use. At this point I usually check to make sure there is no slack in my anchors (if so adjust the knots again), and that the anchor is centered over where I will be climbing. Now you attach the rope to the biners at the ropes center point, Yell ROPE! if you hear no response or clear, toss the rope (becareful it doesn't knot up - flake the rope out first). Check to make sure that the rope and your webbing are not over a sharp edge of rock - if they are you need to extend your anchor, or you can put some foam or padding under it to protect it from fraying and breaking. I hope this helps, I am sure I'm forgetting some things, it's easier when you're out there doing it to remember everything. Please remember that you really should go with someone who knows, but it doesn't sound like you are going to do that so be as safe as possible!
|
|
|
|
|
climbracer
Jun 6, 2002, 7:15 PM
Post #12 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 226
|
Check this: http://www.gunks.com/rock/rock_frame_toprope.htm
|
|
|
|
|
krustyklimber
Jun 6, 2002, 8:33 PM
Post #13 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 25, 2002
Posts: 1650
|
Great job Howitzer and Climbracer!
We got smart girls all over this site!
All of these techniques could be taught in your local park or maybe your back yard, you should have someone that knows how (but can't go) come over and show you before you go!
Jeff
|
|
|
|
|
jm_rip
Jun 10, 2002, 1:16 AM
Post #14 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 9
|
i just wanted to let everyone know i'm still alive, i got a buddy to show me how to set up the anchors so it went smoothly, thanx for the input
|
|
|
|
|
spike_in_milton
Jun 10, 2002, 1:32 AM
Post #15 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: 118
|
Glad to hear you're still alive . Seriously though, find a TP setup course, pay the money, and learn all the physics, knots, approaches, equipment and safety you can afford. You'll not regret it.
|
|
|
|
|
drock
Jun 10, 2002, 1:58 AM
Post #16 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 31, 2002
Posts: 6
|
Glad to hear your trip went safely, but I hope to add a couple of things. PAD the trees. We nearly lost access to a stellar climbing area in Chattanooga, sunset park, due to webbing destroying the bark, and eventaully the trees, in a popular toproping area. Secondly, huge trees on top of cliffs can grow in a few inches of soil and be pulled out with surprisingly little force, this is from experience. Test the tree while watching for any movement in the soil around it.
|
|
|
|
|
rockjock04
Jun 10, 2002, 3:01 AM
Post #17 of 17
(3332 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2001
Posts: 517
|
All good advice. There are a few more points I would like to make in addition to those listed above. You know, secrets of the trade.
You already have the anchor set up and the two locking carabiners hanging over the edge of the cliff. Now, when you go to clip in the rope, there is a certain direction the rope must go in. Make sure your webbing does not twist as it lays over the edge of the cliff. with this done, you can either snap the rope in two ways. backwards or forwards. Imagine clipping the rope in and letting it dangle freely, straight down. Now, all you need to make sure is, that the side that is hanging against the cliff is the side that you want your climber to tie into. If it is not, you've clipped in backwards. This will cause either the webbing to to twist, thus kinda offsetting your anchor. or your rope to run over itself just under the biners, causing unnecessary friction and wear.
Number two, I find it convenient to cut up my webbing and tie the pieces together utilizing a water knot. I have a variety of lengths including, 1,2,3,4,5,8, and 15 foot lengths. You can get about 100 feet of webbing for $10-15 dollars if you find on sale for around $.22 a foot. Make sure to leave tails in the water knot so it doesn't work itself out when arresting a fall. All this pre-tying stuff is not necessity. It is simply convenience. If you have the pretied slings, you dont have to worry about trying to untie the water-knot each time you put your weight on it. One time, it took me an hour and a half to undo one knot. tuff stuff. so I suggest tying some slings.
Another important thing is running the rope over rock. I made that mistake the first time I went out. Just let me say it doesn't matter how little the angle is between the biners, the rock and the climber, It will wear the sheath like crazy which = bad.
And last but not least, use your brain. Double check your knots, biners, and harnesses. although top rope is safe, it can turn nasty with only something as simple as not doubling back the waist loop on your harness.
Have fun, be safe.
Me
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
