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a4naught
Jun 13, 2002, 2:04 AM
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What criteria do you use in finding climbing partners who are safe? I have a very hard time trusting others' with my life on belay, especially when it has to do with my beginning leading forays. My partner is out for a while recovering from surgery and I am interested in finding other climbers to go with in the SoCal area, but...I am paranoid! I try to be safe myself and am, in fact, still learning some of the practical aspects that are more involved (anchors, to anchor or not while on lead belay, position relative to the rock and clips, and on). Do you ask for input from more experienced others, as I am attempting to do? I have been reading up a storm, but find that there is a real gap in understanding by the books and getting out there to practise it. I know the principles, but have no idea how many others do as well, or whether they are merely winging it! How do I know whether someone is trustworthy, or just a fabulous and lucky climber?? Anyone have an "audition" that seems to work? I find that I am intimidated by those I perceive as being advanced climbers and anything I might have "known" before seems to fly right out of my head in their presence (sorry, Jay...I am very appreciative nonetheless), so I fear that I might be perceived as less than safe and suffer the same suspicion!I totally understand. But, I see that others seem to be able to get beyond these safety things and just "climb on," where I am afraid of making an unfortunate error in judging others that could be deadly. I keep myself on my toes by a continuously asking myself "what if"? I just can't bring myself to "jump into the mix" for the comradeship...
Any ideas, besides slapping me upside my head and telling me to get over it??
Sorry for the long post...I think I am now babbling...:/
[ This Message was edited by: a4naught on 2002-06-12 19:05 ]
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climbsomething
Jun 13, 2002, 3:20 AM
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hey, your concern is totally okay... after all, it IS your life. so here are some things I'd think about for a potential partner, in no particular order:
1) how long have they been climbing? consistently?
2) how well do they know the area you're going to?
3) are they accomplished trad climbers? not to knock sport at all - I am, after all, admittedly a sport weenie myself - but I really, really end up trusting my friends/partners who have done a lot of trad. something about trusting your life to a #1 nut or some well-knotted webbing, and being (pretty) calm about it, that gets you paying close attention to what you and others are doing. just a personal thing.
4) do they know first aid?
5) what are their methods for anchors? I know a guy who *never* puts the rope through draws, he just runs it through the chains/shuts, whatnot for seconds. I really really don't like that. I really really won't climb with him. I also met some people who girth-hitched slings to the anchor shuts, attached biners to the other ends, and ran the rope through that. gah!
to "audition" some partners, I'd just say tag along with another group, and watch your prospects with each other. do they belay attentively? do they let out too much/not enough slack? do you feel at ease around them? (I get nervous with negative reinforcement or overly competitive climbers. just keep it real, keep it fun, yo! but, that's annother rant ...)
dunno if this is helping much, I may be rambling too, but in a nutshell, just hitch along with a group of prospective buddies and evaluate them from the ground. trust your gut. be safe and have fun!
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nailzz
Jun 13, 2002, 4:23 AM
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Ask questions. Talk about climbing on the car ride or approach to the crag. Mention books that you've read. Ask if they've read them too.
In my experience, most people out I've met have been competent, safety-consciuos and smart. The ones who weren't, it was painfully obvious after just one outing. Granted, one outing can be one too many with an unsafe climber, but that's the time to suck it up and be a total @$$ and insist that they do it your way if they're doing something stupid. The stupid people I have had the unfortunate opportunity to climb with don't get a second chance.
Honestly, though, like I said most folks out there are reasonably intelligent and realize that one mistake is all it takes. They value their lives as much as you value yours and I value mine. They are not out to become vegetables or worse, they are out to have fun and to return home to do it again.
Sorry I don't have any hard and fast rules but like I said, it's pretty plain when you're with somebody who is not worthy of any trust. Like Nancy Reagan said, "Just Say No."
Have fun.
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jansuw
Jun 13, 2002, 4:37 AM
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Yeah, talk while going there, about everything, anything you can think of. Once climbing you can simply say that you don't feel thats safe and most people will understand and be reasonable. If you both disagree, ask other climbers at the crag. I've never met a rude climber (yet) and most everyone is willing to help. One thing though, if you don't feel safe at all, don't climb. If you don't trust your belayer, the bolts, the gear what not, don't get off the ground.
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climbchick
Jun 13, 2002, 5:04 AM
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I think all climbers have some concerns when climbing with someone they don't know. Most would be very willing to answer your questions and do what they can to make you feel comfortable because they understand where you're coming from. Even though it feels rude to question someone or object to what they're doing, never hesitate for a moment and never go along with something that you have doubts about just because you don't want to seem fussy. If you can't see the anchor, it's OK to ask how it's been set up, or even go over it beforehand on the drive. I personally feel safer if I go with a group -- that way there are more people watching what's going on and also I can usually observe the others before I climb and make sure they belay properly (that's usually what weighs on my mind the most). Then, once you've had the chance to get comfortable with a few people in a group situation, you'll feel better about climbing with them alone. If you can't manage to get a group set up, you could always try climbing with the new person at the gym first -- both of you will have to demonstrate belay technique etc and you'll be able to get used to each other in a relatively safe environment.
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a4naught
Jun 27, 2002, 3:20 AM
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Excellent advice, all. As it happens, a guy at the gym called on my little "Climbing Partner Wanted" ad and then it turned into a big 'ol group outing this Saturday, which is great. He and one of the gals seems like a trustworthy belay and they are good enough that it may very well be a big top rope day instead of scary leading with unknowns. Good input on the trad thing, as this fellow's experience is mostly trad. Watched him climb one of the little gym cracks expertly and without breaking a sweat (tho I know that is no indication of safety). And, he was asking questions of one of the group and seemed to be scoping out concerns as well that I overheard on a couple occasions. All good signs.
Excellent forum, again!
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k9rocko
Jun 27, 2002, 3:55 AM
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Another thing I wasn't sure I saw in the above replies:
Dont climb with someone who doesn't respect (his/her) and your ability....
An overconfident climber can get you both into trouble, and possibly an experience with search and rescue. I prefer climb with somebody who has a little knowledge of how to self rescue. In addition, I have read and practiced basic self rescue. Also, it isn't fun when your partner promotes you to belay slave and wants to climb stuff that is above your head. Two reasons, if he/she thinks all you want to do is belay.... Also, if your partner takes a whipper, and gets a good bell-ringing.... you might have to climb the route to stabilize/rescue your partner. Just some extra food for thought.
[ This Message was edited by: k9rocko on 2002-06-26 20:56 ]
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doosh
Jun 27, 2002, 6:05 AM
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I am usually like: JUST DONT f---ING SPOT ME!!""!"!!°||
But, sometimes I softly purr:
Keep me off those pointy rocks.
Hopefully, they brought a lighter.
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samshafer
Jun 27, 2002, 8:19 AM
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It really sounds to me like you're sweating this whole issue way too much. I've had some really terrible belayers & I've been able to train each one with about 5-10 minutes of pep talk. I also don't usually attempt some incredibly hard route that I'm not confident about with a first-time belayer either.
Well, by Nailzz definition I'm an unsafe climber. I've never read a climbing book (except the one by the Russian who survived the Everest debacle). I'm just now subscribing to Climbing magazine (a Father's day present) & I've been climbing regularly since '88 (less a couple years living on an island). Everything I learned was taught me by other climbers (or learned the hard way). I also run my ropes directly through the chains for rappelling or anchoring. I usually rope solo these days for lack of a consistent partner.
If I do have a belayer, it's either my wife who is the world's worst belayer, doesn't understand English well & doesn't climb, or some first-timer who never saw a rope before.
My answer & that of my former partner (now doing time in the pen), either don't fall when leading or give the belayer a Gri-Gri. Probably the Gri-Gri is easier.
Like Lynn used to say, "If you don't fall, the protection doesn't matter".
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totigers
Dec 15, 2002, 7:49 PM
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I understand your concerns. My last climbing trip, three of us were set up for the climb when another climber came up and behind him was a young lady that he had met here on this site and agreed to go for a climb. She was suppose to be belaying him when he took a short fall and danced on the floor a bit before catching himself. That I would say is a lousy belayer. I was tired already so I pretty much tried to belay everyone since we started sharing ropes and climbing next to each other.
So know your belayer and make sure that you keep your Leader with the toughtness that THEY prefer.
If your not sure then just do the small stuff. Keep it safe.
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