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m-earle
Sep 30, 2007, 10:54 PM
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Ty Wagner fell 30' to the ground, landing directly on his back on the climb "Deseret Moon" at the cat wall. He was leading the direct stemming start, when he had three cams rip after falling from the crux exit move. The gear was most likey placed poorly, but even so, if you're leading this climb, try not to fall from the crux. Apart from being sore as a muther f*cker, ty sustained no serious injuries.
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majid_sabet
Sep 30, 2007, 11:02 PM
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What type, size cams where used ?
Distance between each protections ?
How tall is this climb ?
How much rope was in use between belayer and climber ?
Type of belay device ?
Thanks
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m-earle
Sep 30, 2007, 11:20 PM
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He had 4 cams in total. the three that ripped were within feet of each other and in the half inch range. the fourth cam was about fifteen feet up the climb, but took little or no force from the fall. The belayer hardly any weight. Belayer was using an ATC.
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johnathon78
Oct 1, 2007, 12:09 AM
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Duh Duh Duh DAA! Majid_Sabet to the rescue!
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joeforte
Oct 1, 2007, 12:40 AM
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I noticed many skate-marks from ripping cams in Arches N.P. Do cams tend to rip out in the sandstone of IC, or is that just due to a bad/flaring placement?
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m-earle
Oct 1, 2007, 5:30 PM
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Gear is usualy pretty strong at the creek, but it is sandstone, and it is extremely important to place small gear well... and not to take big falls on it.
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tradmanclimbs
Oct 1, 2007, 5:34 PM
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Right at the crux of Prayer Stick the stone is totaly grooved out from big cams ripping. looks like at least a 30 footer to the last drilled angle below that
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maldaly
Oct 1, 2007, 6:01 PM
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There was another fall yesterday at the Meat Wall. Multiple fractures and the Monticello Sherrif was out in full force to rescue. Anyone know anything about this? There was a helo at the base around 5:30 or so.
I hope the rescue went well.
Mal
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roy_hinkley_jr
Oct 1, 2007, 6:09 PM
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Desert sandstone = Metolius FatCams. Nothing else is even close.
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glahhg
Oct 1, 2007, 6:15 PM
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johnathon78 wrote: Duh Duh Duh DAA! Majid_Sabet to the rescue!
Shut the fuck up, dude. He's asking relevant questions in this post. Go bash him where he's actually doing something dumb.
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camhead
Oct 1, 2007, 6:20 PM
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the direct start to Deseret Moon consists of twin, overhanging less-than-tips cracks on either side of an inset pillar. The cracks mostly take 0 Metolius size, .2 microcamalot, or .4 friend. There used to be a bolt to protect this start; it was removed a few years back.
I always suspected that, due to the inset pillar, the gear was not too good at the start of this climb. The leader should be definitely be comfortable with .11+ stemming.
here's a pic--
Roy Hinkley, I don't think that they make fatcams that small, do they? Even if they did, I would not trust them on this particular route.
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cracklover
Oct 1, 2007, 6:58 PM
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Camhead, do you think the pillar moves? Do you think it would be possible to protect it better by putting a small cam on either side and equalizing them, so the forces one either side of the pillar would balance out? I haven't been on the climb, so pardon if this is a stupid suggestion for some reason.
GO
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camhead
Oct 1, 2007, 7:06 PM
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the pillar doesn't move per se, but it definitely resonates when you thump it! I thought about the equalizing two pieces on either side, but it always seemed like too much trouble while in the middle of hard stemming and chimneying.
I am sure that plenty of people have fallen on gear on this climb (since it's in such a popular area, and is so aesthetic. But I am likewise not surprised that this accident occurred (and glad the climber is okay).
Like the OP said, the best pro on this variation is to have your shit together and not fall. Not all of the Creek is "sport-trad".
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cracklover
Oct 1, 2007, 8:33 PM
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camhead wrote: I thought about the equalizing two pieces on either side, but it always seemed like too much trouble while in the middle of hard stemming and chimneying.
No doubt! I hesitated to even ask because of it!
I'm also curious to know why the OP said: In reply to: The gear was most likey placed poorly
What's the story with that?
GO
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roy_hinkley_jr
Oct 1, 2007, 8:43 PM
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camhead wrote: The cracks mostly take 0 Metolius size, .2 microcamalot, or .4 friend.
Nope, no fatties that small. In that case, Metolius Power Cams would be the best bet. The smaller cam angle gives them greater holding power than any other cam (the advantage of less expansion range) so less chance of tracking out. Perhaps a Leeper Antipiton would work better if you could find one and place it on lead. Sounds like don't fall is the best option.
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camhead
Oct 1, 2007, 8:52 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: camhead wrote: The cracks mostly take 0 Metolius size, .2 microcamalot, or .4 friend. Nope, no fatties that small. In that case, Metolius Power Cams would be the best bet. The smaller cam angle gives them greater holding power than any other cam (the advantage of less expansion range) so less chance of tracking out. Perhaps a Leeper Antipiton would work better if you could find one and place it on lead. Sounds like don't fall is the best option.
yeah, although I don't even think that Metolius makes four-camming units that small, so you would have to go with a TCU and its three points of contact, as opposed to the four points on a BD or an alien.
okay, enough gear nitpicking...
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roy_hinkley_jr
Oct 1, 2007, 9:04 PM
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FWIW, they make the 4CU down to 00.
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majid_sabet
Oct 1, 2007, 9:05 PM
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m-earle wrote: He had 4 cams in total. the three that ripped were within feet of each other and in the half inch range. the fourth cam was about fifteen feet up the climb, but took little or no force from the fall. The belayer hardly any weight. Belayer was using an ATC.
Thanks for the update, now the 4th cam actually stop his fall or no he decked?
Also if 4th one failed , where would he ended up ? ( how far till next protection if any).
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sinrtb
Oct 1, 2007, 9:21 PM
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majid: I gathered from the op that the 4th one did not fail because he had hit the ground.
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angry
Oct 1, 2007, 9:33 PM
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Pro at the creek is weird. I've whipped on a black alien that kept me off the deck. I've also whipped on a 0 C3 that held just fine.
Then there's #2 friend placements that I totally don't trust (and do everything I can to avoid falling on stuff like that).
I guess it's not as sport safe as we like to think.
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areyoumydude
Oct 2, 2007, 1:22 AM
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(This post was edited by areyoumydude on Oct 2, 2007, 1:34 AM)
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m-earle
Oct 2, 2007, 1:32 AM
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The foruth cam (yellow alien) did not take any force from the fall. His back, however, took about 100% when it met the ground. he landed on a patch of dirt at the start of the route. Lucky f*ck'n kid.
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insainio
Oct 2, 2007, 5:18 PM
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Mal,
My group and I were heading back to the car from tenderloin wall while the rescue was taking place. The helo dropped paramedics off onto a boulder feet from the wall and evacuated the injured climber the same way. The pilot had some skills. As for the climber, don't now his injuries or what happened. Just now he was evacuated by copter on a backboard. Weird thing is there was no yells for help or any sign of trouble till the helo showed up, which was well after the accident.
Kevin
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