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smeshy123
Jul 28, 2008, 12:52 AM
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I'd like to try and set up a training program that includes the following as different independent sets of actions:
abs, swimming, running, climbing, weight lifting. The reason for this is that I am trying to build good physical physique while at the same time building strength and endurance for climbing. The swimming needs to be included because it is very good for rehabilitation of muscles and joints.
I have a slim build and some muscle. 5'8" 130lbs.
What I need is advice on how best to set up a good program Monday through Friday.
For example:
Monday = abs, climbing
Tuesday = running, weight lifting
etc.
Any advice on which activities should be placed on which days would be greatly appreciated. Also advice on what kind of exercising I should do during those days, ex: endurance, strength, etc. would be appreciated, but I think I can figure that part out on my own. If you think I'm going about this the wrong way, let me know why!
Thanks!
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manacubus
Jul 28, 2008, 1:57 AM
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It doesn't seem like you need to lose weight. That being the case, swimming, running and weight lifting will do stuff all to actually better your rockclimbing compared with the gains you will get from actually climbing.
You mention rehab. Why do you need rehab - have you been injured? If so, then certainly this needs to be factored into any given plan.
So if getting better at climbing is your primary focus (is it?), forget the cross training and build yourself a program with high specificity to climbing. For a start, haver a read of rockprodigy's training plan article here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ockprodigy__258.html
Lee Cujes
Upskill Climbing Coaching
http://www.upskillclimbing.com
(This post was edited by manacubus on Jul 28, 2008, 2:04 AM)
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healyje
Jul 28, 2008, 4:47 AM
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I'd say skip the weights - swim more or add Astanga Yoga instead of the weights...
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jt512
Jul 28, 2008, 6:10 AM
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healyje wrote: I'd say skip the weights - swim more or add Astanga Yoga instead of the weights...
Is random advice better than none at all? On average, no.
Jay
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healyje
Jul 28, 2008, 8:40 AM
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Well, as someone who does run, swim and do yoga as cross-training I'd say there's nothing random about it.
Random criticism on the other hand...
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 11:01 AM
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I'd say there's nothing wrong with light free-height work mixed in with body weight work.
Here's my advice (do what I say, not what I do! the training schedule I wish I followed):
Day 1-
AM, go for a light jog or swim before work, get the motab going in the morning and feel more energetic all day. Make sure to take it really easy in the morning, your body is not warmed up whatsoever, easiest time time tweak something (in the bad way).
PM:Bike to climbing wall, train as for RockProdogy's guide. In fact, follow RP's guide every night. After climbing get some opposition muscle work- press ups, shoulder press, bench press ETC.
Try to get some general body work during the day every day- I suggest yoga, team sports, and of coarse Beastskills.com <- really, really fun.
Day 2-
AM Rowing (make sure and warm up!!!)
PM run to the gym and do RP's stuff, if you're having a rest day, then go for a swim with interval training.
Day 3-
AM Jog
PM Interval run (if there are street lights at equal spacing... Sprint X, jog 3x, sprint X, jog 3x ETC.) followed by RP.
Day 4-
AM jog
PM (this will cripple you- a good sleep garenteed) Row to warm up, followed by skip-rope circuit- skip for 50, sprint 10, 10 press ups, 30 sit ups, 20 chins, 10 burpees, 30 different sit-ups, 10 single-leg-squat-thrust-things, skip for 50, sprint for ten, etc. Followed by Row to exhaustion.
Cut out the chins and skip instead of rowing if your arms are tired or at risk of injuries from climbing. Try to get some L-hangs in there, too, and maybe some frenchies.
Day 5:
As for day 2
Day 6: as for day one
Day 7 as for day 3.
Mix it up, keep your body guessing, push it hard, but never push it too far. Do some opposition training every other day to stop tennis elbow ETC. and get some of that Rockin' beast skillz in- good fun and does your core like a beast. Try to get a strong core- it is surprisingly important and most non-athletes lack this majorly, and never get round to working on it.
:)
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 11:16 AM
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healyje wrote: Random criticism on the other hand...
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smeshy123
Jul 28, 2008, 3:49 PM
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manacubus wrote: It doesn't seem like you need to lose weight. That being the case, swimming, running and weight lifting will do stuff all to actually better your rockclimbing compared with the gains you will get from actually climbing. You mention rehab. Why do you need rehab - have you been injured? If so, then certainly this needs to be factored into any given plan. So if getting better at climbing is your primary focus (is it?), forget the cross training and build yourself a program with high specificity to climbing. For a start, haver a read of rockprodigy's training plan article here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ockprodigy__258.html Lee Cujes Upskill Climbing Coaching http://www.upskillclimbing.com
I hurt my shoulders in high school and am concerned about preventing further injury. My understanding is that swimming will help my ligaments and such recover quicker from climbing so that I can train with greater intensity. Swimming is also a great help in preventing injury of my shoulders.
I'd say I have two focuses which are slightly contradictory. If I was to break it down I would say:
Climbing 60%
Muscle hypertrophy 40%
I understand you don't want huge muscles for climbing. I don't want huge muscles at all, but I'd like to fill my body out more. Once I get to a happy point, I will be 100% concerned about climbing.
Rockprodigy's plan is great but I am limited by my college's rock wall and training stuff. Nor can I afford to buy and build my own campus board.
My gym has 6-7 3-story top ropes and I'd say about a 30-40 foot wide bouldering wall, all of which sustain heavy use when they are open.
There is a finger board, which I can train on. I do not think there is a campus board.
---------------
To reply to sungam's post. I will be biking to class every morning (1.5-2m) up hill. I am an evening person and from past experience I will not get up in the morning to work out. (I've tried a few times and have failed miserably every time)
Also, I'd like this to be a M-F plan with rest and/or out door climbing on Sat/Sunday.
You suggest that I follow his guide every day, but keep in mind I've only been climbing for 3 months and my fingers aren't to the point of where I will be able to do his workout everyday without injuring them so I'd like to climb and do climbing exercises opposite days until they become stronger. Let me know if you think this is flawed logic.
---------------
Suggestions on how to alter Rockprodigy's plan and incorporating it with everything from above would be great! Is there a replacement I can do for campus boarding?
Also, my weight lifting days will be aimed primarily at hypertrophy and secondarily at climbing until I get the size that I am aiming for.
I can commit a max of 2 hrs a night M-F to everything that I would be doing, which is to include fun climbing and such.
Thanks for all the help!
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 4:00 PM
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Skip campusing got max recruitment your first year, just do dynamic boulder problems (not dynos, just ones with big, fast puils)
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 4:01 PM
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If you want to shove 2 days of climbing in there, they can go in at any time, BTW.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Jul 28, 2008, 4:15 PM
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smeshy123 wrote: I hurt my shoulders in high school and am concerned about preventing further injury. My understanding is that swimming will help my ligaments and such recover quicker from climbing so that I can train with greater intensity. Swimming is also a great help in preventing injury of my shoulders.
sorta but not really. If you're really wanting to rehab the shoulders, you should be doing external and internal shoulder rotations with light weights or resistance bands to strengthen the rotator cuff. Swimming could actually aggravate existing problems and put you into a cycle of chronic injury. Yoga won't do much for you (in this respect) either. The book Climbing: Training for Peak Performance (a new edition is coming out soon) will have a lot more info with programs etc.
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aerili
Jul 28, 2008, 9:06 PM
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smeshy,
This is a hard question to answer b/c your goals are only vaguely defined.
However, you did mention that you have a slim build and are looking to build a good physique....I assume this means you want to gain some weight via muscle mass? Having trained multiple people wishing to gain weight, I do think your program of activities will not be the ideal way to do so...BUT I can try to give you a semi-decent layout of a program that does include most of these things if you can tell me your goals in slightly more detail and how much the non-climbing goals weigh on the scale against climbing goals.
Edited to add: I was lazy and only read the first couple posts. I see you added more detail to things later in another post. Let me think about this and I will get back to you.
(This post was edited by aerili on Jul 28, 2008, 9:08 PM)
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 9:16 PM
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What did you think of mine, BTW> (If I remember right, you're in the know).
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healyje
Jul 28, 2008, 10:30 PM
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Campus and fingerboards are a lousy idea as is intense bouldering if your shoulders are a problem. Roy's comments on shoulder strengthening rehab exercises are way, way more the direction you should be going.
The yoga is for core strength, but doing it in concert with balance development a combo you won't really get any other way.
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 11:18 PM
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ker rect.
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onceahardman
Jul 28, 2008, 11:22 PM
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In reply to: Nor can I afford to buy and build my own campus board.
Umm, you could garbage-pick a few broken hockey sticks, or door trim, and a scrap of plywood. Be creative. Root around a construction site. Can you afford a couple dozen wood scews?
In reply to: Swimming is also a great help in preventing injury of my shoulders.
I agree with what roy said above. Specifically, shoulder hypermobility is a very common problem in swimmers. Build the stability first, which in the shoulder, means the rotator cuff.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Jul 28, 2008, 11:25 PM)
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sungam
Jul 28, 2008, 11:24 PM
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: Nor can I afford to buy and build my own campus board. Umm, you could garbage-pick a few broken hockey sticks, or door trim, and a scrap of plywood. Be creative. Root around a construction site. Can you afford a couple dozen wood scews?
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smeshy123
Jul 29, 2008, 3:39 AM
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Why "Astanga Yoga" specifically? As a broader question, what will yoga do to help improve climbing? How effective is it?
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healyje
Jul 29, 2008, 4:36 AM
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Ashtanga yoga is a fairly robust affair focused on breathing through a series of changing poses. It will kick your ass even if you are in great shape in pretty much any and all other activities. Think of it as working every muscle you don't work climbing or swimming on top of all those you do.
It is essentially about establishing strength while at the same time developing a breathe-based control over your mind and body. Top that off with simultaneously tuning your balance through it all and the combination simply is hard to beat for climbing.
Lots of Ashtanga vids up on youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu9Sq1RvuoA
(This post was edited by healyje on Jul 29, 2008, 4:58 AM)
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aerili
Jul 29, 2008, 6:47 AM
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sungam wrote: What did you think of mine, BTW> (If I remember right, you're in the know).
Some of it's okay, but it has some serious flaws for a person like smeshy who has certain goals that are un-climbing related. My personal feeling is that you follow Crossfit a lot, which has no customization to it whatsoever for any particular goal (go ahead and argue with me on that if you like, it doesn't change the truth). Also saying stuff like: "Make sure to take it really easy in the morning, your body is not warmed up whatsoever, easiest time time tweak something (in the bad way)" is misleading. There's no special "time of day" in which you can sustain more injury. Warm up is essential regardless of the time of day.
Another thing is that for a guy who wants to fill out, you have put in way too much cardio. This will work against his goal, considering his natural ectomorph-dominant physique. Also, doing a lot of interval training could potentially be the most detrimental form of cardio for him, physique development-wise...Because of its effect on EPOC.
Also, there is no rest in your plan. Doing constant AM and PM workouts leaves time for recovery...when? There is also a bit too much overlap of working the same muscle groups through both resistance training AND cardio exercises day after day which may present a problem for him in the form of overtraining eventually.
Remember, more doesn't always equal better.
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aerili
Jul 29, 2008, 7:05 AM
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smeshy123 wrote: Why "Astanga Yoga" specifically? As a broader question, what will yoga do to help improve climbing? How effective is it?
Okay, lots of people love yoga, and I am not picking on healyje or even making a statement about yoga's place in the Pantheon of Exercise (although I disagree with him that it should replace weight training altogether). However, whenever I hear someone extolling it, it reminds me of something strength and conditioning coach Mike Boyle wrote: "Yo, yoga people! If I come across anyone who is training to stand in the same place for an hour, I'll send them your way."
Full article here!  http://www.bodybyboyle.com/articles.php?show=6
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healyje
Jul 29, 2008, 8:04 AM
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aerili wrote: smeshy123 wrote: Why "Astanga Yoga" specifically? As a broader question, what will yoga do to help improve climbing? How effective is it? However, whenever I hear someone extolling it, it reminds me of something strength and conditioning coach Mike Boyle wrote: "Yo, yoga people! If I come across anyone who is training to stand in the same place for an hour, I'll send them your way." Full article here! http://www.bodybyboyle.com/articles.php?show=6
Mike Boyle can talk out his ass about yoga till the cows come home, but unfortunately that's what he's doing and basically gets it all wrong. Just his comment about standing around for an hour makes him sound like an idiot in this context. For climbing - which is about strength, endurance, balance, and control - yoga maps to what we do extremely well relative to those elements which both share in common. Speed? I'll give him sspeed, but Ashtanga maps pretty closely to climbing there as well.
On the whole, I'd say anyone making such statements hasn't personally had their ass kicked in an Ashtanga class or they wouldn't be embarassing themselve in such a manner. Stick any of Boyle's top athletes from any sport in an Ashtanga class and they too will get their ass kicked in a matter of minutes.
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jt512
Jul 29, 2008, 3:19 PM
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healyje wrote: Stick any of Boyle's top athletes from any sport in an Ashtanga class and they too will get their ass kicked in a matter of minutes.
OK, but by how much will their performance in their sport improve? How much will a pitcher's fastball speed improve? How much further will a batter be able to hit? How much will the quarterback's completion percentage improve? By how many grades will the climber's redpoint level increase?
Jay
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