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dirtineye
Jun 2, 2006, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Oligarch of Obfuscation. Dirt, Put the dictionary down and get some fresh air. It might help your perspective.
Dude, ROTFLMAO, you really think I need a dictionary for THOSE words?
I guess you did though, again ROTFLMAO!!!
I get a LOT of exercise, cause you make me laugh so hard, I almost cry.
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rufusandcompany
Jun 2, 2006, 1:22 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Oligarch of Obfuscation. Dirt, Put the dictionary down and get some fresh air. It might help your perspective. Dude, ROTFLMAO, you really think I need a dictionary for THOSE words? I guess you did though, again ROTFLMAO!!! I get a LOT of exercise, cause you make me laugh so hard, I almost cry.
Dirt,
I really hope that things work out for you. This can't be fun.
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dirtineye
Jun 2, 2006, 1:56 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Oligarch of Obfuscation. Dirt, Put the dictionary down and get some fresh air. It might help your perspective. Dude, ROTFLMAO, you really think I need a dictionary for THOSE words? I guess you did though, again ROTFLMAO!!! I get a LOT of exercise, cause you make me laugh so hard, I almost cry. Dirt, I really hope that things work out for you. This can't be fun.
Actually, I am having a great time!
If you only knew how great, LOL, but, you will, soon enoough.
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rufusandcompany
Jun 2, 2006, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Oligarch of Obfuscation. Dirt, Put the dictionary down and get some fresh air. It might help your perspective. Dude, ROTFLMAO, you really think I need a dictionary for THOSE words? I guess you did though, again ROTFLMAO!!! I get a LOT of exercise, cause you make me laugh so hard, I almost cry. Dirt, I really hope that things work out for you. This can't be fun. Actually, I am having a great time! If you only knew how great, LOL, but, you will, soon enoough.
Good for you, Dirt
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curt
Jun 2, 2006, 4:27 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You know, I vowed to myself not to get involved in these sorts of threads. I vowed to myself that I would only participate where I thought my input might be valued. I'm breaking that vow because I feel you have committed a great injustice, a rather vile act. The above posting is grossly patronizing and pathetic. Nothing but self serving justification for crossing the line of what it means to be compassionate and civilized. You guys were trading barbs pretty aggressively but nothing truly personal. You made it personal. You took a shot at the extreme misfortune of someone else only to stroke your ego. You simply kicked a guy while he's down and that's just plain wrong. 'Keeping it real' is fine for someone that is OK with it and perhaps close to you but you have no right to treat the disease of someone else the same as you treat your friend's. Sad, very, very sad. That's all I have to say. I don't think Rufus is really a bad guy. After all, we shouldn't attribute to malice something that can adequately be described by stupidity. Curt Always the pillar of wisdom...
Indeed. Know your place, bitch.
Curt
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dirtineye
Jun 2, 2006, 5:21 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You know, I vowed to myself not to get involved in these sorts of threads. I vowed to myself that I would only participate where I thought my input might be valued. I'm breaking that vow because I feel you have committed a great injustice, a rather vile act. The above posting is grossly patronizing and pathetic. Nothing but self serving justification for crossing the line of what it means to be compassionate and civilized. You guys were trading barbs pretty aggressively but nothing truly personal. You made it personal. You took a shot at the extreme misfortune of someone else only to stroke your ego. You simply kicked a guy while he's down and that's just plain wrong. 'Keeping it real' is fine for someone that is OK with it and perhaps close to you but you have no right to treat the disease of someone else the same as you treat your friend's. Sad, very, very sad. That's all I have to say. I don't think Rufus is really a bad guy. After all, we shouldn't attribute to malice something that can adequately be described by stupidity. Curt Always the pillar of wisdom... Indeed. Know your place, b----. Curt
Curt, Curt, Curt.
Man, if Roofdoof was MY bitch, I would NEVER admit that.
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rufusandcompany
Jun 2, 2006, 5:30 AM
Post #257 of 358
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You know, I vowed to myself not to get involved in these sorts of threads. I vowed to myself that I would only participate where I thought my input might be valued. I'm breaking that vow because I feel you have committed a great injustice, a rather vile act. The above posting is grossly patronizing and pathetic. Nothing but self serving justification for crossing the line of what it means to be compassionate and civilized. You guys were trading barbs pretty aggressively but nothing truly personal. You made it personal. You took a shot at the extreme misfortune of someone else only to stroke your ego. You simply kicked a guy while he's down and that's just plain wrong. 'Keeping it real' is fine for someone that is OK with it and perhaps close to you but you have no right to treat the disease of someone else the same as you treat your friend's. Sad, very, very sad. That's all I have to say. I don't think Rufus is really a bad guy. After all, we shouldn't attribute to malice something that can adequately be described by stupidity. Curt Always the pillar of wisdom... Indeed. Know your place, b----. Curt
Curt,
You took your rightful place in bitchdom when you dragged mommy into the fray.
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sterlingjim
Jun 2, 2006, 4:38 PM
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In reply to: Thanx Jim...trophy for you!! :D About the precut ropes...can you elaborate on "varying degrees" of cut? Also, what kind/size ropes did you use?
I cut roughly 25% to 30% of some mildly used ropes. One 9.8mm diameter and two 10.5 diameter. Interestingly enough it took at least 6 drops to break the rope.
The drops were all about .5 if anyone was wondering.
I would like to try acid contaminated rope but I'm not too keen on introducing the drop tower to acid. A thought about possible acid contamination is: was it a localized contamination or more wide spread if indeed it was contaminated at all?
I suspect that if the remaining rope is drop tested it will be found that it holds far fewer drops, of course, than its original rating and will have a break that is obviously different than the one in the photos. I base this suspicion on the first hand experience I have with breaking ropes new and old.
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cracklover
Jun 2, 2006, 4:53 PM
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Interesting stuff, Jim, thanks for doing, and for sharing!
If I were you, I don't think I'd want a strong acid anywhere near my testing equipment, unless you have a facility you can easily hose down. But if you do decide to play with them, I think it can take a while for acids to work on the rope, right? I mean, you can't really easily reproduce the action of a rope having acid sit in it and dry to crystaline form, then get worked into the rope for months of light use.
But if you can, I'd be awfully curious to see what you got if you tried to do a drop test where the rope runs over the notch in a biner. Best if you could use the specific biner used in the gym, but that's a bit much to ask. Is this possible in your drop tower setup?
GO
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yokese
Jun 2, 2006, 5:35 PM
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Check the biner and the rope, but also take into account the possibility of a sharp metal edge between plywood panels, or a bolt in the way of the rope... perhaps unlikely, but possible.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=74106
edited because the link to the image didn't work as expected...
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sterlingjim
Jun 2, 2006, 5:42 PM
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In reply to: If I were you, I don't think I'd want a strong acid anywhere near my testing equipment, unless you have a facility you can easily hose down. But if you do decide to play with them, I think it can take a while for acids to work on the rope, right? I mean, you can't really easily reproduce the action of a rope having acid sit in it and dry to crystaline form, then get worked into the rope for months of light use.
Yeah, hosing down is not an option unfortunately. I did actually put a small amount of muriatic acid on a rope to see how easily it could be identified in a visual inspection. We use muriatic acid here on occasion to differentiate nylon and polyester. Nylon will melt, polyester will not. I probably didn't let it set for long enough to dry but I could see where I had put a few droplets.
In reply to: But if you can, I'd be awfully curious to see what you got if you tried to do a drop test where the rope runs over the notch in a biner. Best if you could use the specific biner used in the gym, but that's a bit much to ask. Is this possible in your drop tower setup? GO
It could be arranged. I'm not sure if the exact model of carabiner has been identified. It probably has but I missed it.
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cracklover
Jun 2, 2006, 6:05 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: But if you can, I'd be awfully curious to see what you got if you tried to do a drop test where the rope runs over the notch in a biner. Best if you could use the specific biner used in the gym, but that's a bit much to ask. Is this possible in your drop tower setup? GO It could be arranged. I'm not sure if the exact model of carabiner has been identified. It probably has but I missed it.
Yes and no. There was a poster on supertopo who said that the biner is a steel DMM bent-gate keylock style non-locker. It doesn't appear that DMM makes such a thing, although they do make a biner that's exactly like the one the poster describes except that it appears to be a standard notched biner, rather than keylock.
It's called the "gym draw", and it looks like this:
http://www.dmmclimbing.com/library/media/108.jpg
I've asked folks if they can confirm that this is what the gym used, and none who know have responded yet.
GO
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pastprime
Jun 2, 2006, 6:37 PM
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Perhaps, if you are concerned about having acid around the drop tower but wanted to test and acid damaged rope, you could treat the rope with acid in whatever way you think would give the info you want; then thoroughly wash the now presumably damaged rope to remove the acid residue, dry it, then test the now acid free, but still damaged, rope. It is very unlikely that water would have the effect of reversing or changing the extent of any damage to the nylon. If any fibers were might be made so frail by the acid that they were washed away, they would have been so weak that the wouldn't have influenced the results anyway.
The results would be of value to the climbing community, whether or not they turned out to bear on this particular incident.
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mattm
Jun 2, 2006, 7:42 PM
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[quote="cracklover"][quote="sterlingjim"]In reply to: Yes and no. There was a poster on supertopo who said that the biner is a steel DMM bent-gate keylock style non-locker. It doesn't appear that DMM makes such a thing, although they do make a biner that's exactly like the one the poster describes except that it appears to be a standard notched biner, rather than keylock. I've asked folks if they can confirm that this is what the gym used, and none who know have responded yet. GO
When I was climbing at the concord gym they had KONG stainless steel keylocks which is what I thought the supertopo poster was referring to. Great gym biners IMO.
seen here
http://images.amazon.com/...ZZZZZ_V51276988_.jpg
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sterlingjim
Jun 2, 2006, 10:58 PM
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In reply to: Perhaps, if you are concerned about having acid around the drop tower but wanted to test and acid damaged rope, you could treat the rope with acid in whatever way you think would give the info you want; then thoroughly wash the now presumably damaged rope to remove the acid residue, dry it, then test the now acid free, but still damaged, rope. It is very unlikely that water would have the effect of reversing or changing the extent of any damage to the nylon. If any fibers were might be made so frail by the acid that they were washed away, they would have been so weak that the wouldn't have influenced the results anyway. The results would be of value to the climbing community, whether or not they turned out to bear on this particular incident.
That's a very good idea! The question is, what concentration of acid? I suppose I can do a few. I won't be able to do this very soon though, it's kind of a lot of work. If I did 3 samples at 3 different levels that's 9 drop tests right there plus 3 soakings and 3 washings. It's kind of fun breaking stuff but it gets a little old. I'll see what I can do but don't hold your breath. If someone wants to take it upon themselves to prep some samples that might help things along.
Please realize that at this point these tests have little to do with the accident but may provide some clues and maybe some lessons.
A big round of applause for Phil on saving this thread.
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dirtineye
Jun 2, 2006, 11:07 PM
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Jim,
The correct acid to use is readily available-- just get yourself a cheap battery at walmart or sam's or an outo parts store and use what's in there.
THis is the most likely souce of trouble, and already at the correct concentration for your testing, and you can find it just about everywhere.
I agree, that was a good idea to do the 'acid test' then clean the rope to protect the gear and testing tower.
IT woudl be nice to test a few segments over time, say, one set at 6 weeks, one at 6 months, one at a year, and one after a few days or even hours.
I also agree that phil saved this thread, although I might lose my bet with Major Sorbet, DOH!
NO train reck, no spectators, Oh well.
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sterlingjim
Jun 2, 2006, 11:19 PM
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Jesus I'm slow tonight. Battery acid, of course. I'm still working on my master's degree in obvious.
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geotracker
Jun 3, 2006, 12:34 AM
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I've climbed there and it is similar to this one shown. But it's a mixed bag of draws from what I remember. I will say they are damn safe over at Pipeworks. I worked at another gym in Sacramento and remember many conversations with other members about how strict they are at Pipeworks. I doubt they had any issues with the gear. They seem to be on top of things when it comes to replacing gear, ropes, and bolts.
Any word yet from BD?
In reply to: Yes and no. There was a poster on supertopo who said that the biner is a steel DMM bent-gate keylock style non-locker. It doesn't appear that DMM makes such a thing, although they do make a biner that's exactly like the one the poster describes except that it appears to be a standard notched biner, rather than keylock. It's called the "gym draw", and it looks like this: http://www.dmmclimbing.com/library/media/108.jpg I've asked folks if they can confirm that this is what the gym used, and none who know have responded yet. GO |
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curt
Jun 3, 2006, 5:02 AM
Post #270 of 358
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You know, I vowed to myself not to get involved in these sorts of threads. I vowed to myself that I would only participate where I thought my input might be valued. I'm breaking that vow because I feel you have committed a great injustice, a rather vile act. The above posting is grossly patronizing and pathetic. Nothing but self serving justification for crossing the line of what it means to be compassionate and civilized. You guys were trading barbs pretty aggressively but nothing truly personal. You made it personal. You took a shot at the extreme misfortune of someone else only to stroke your ego. You simply kicked a guy while he's down and that's just plain wrong. 'Keeping it real' is fine for someone that is OK with it and perhaps close to you but you have no right to treat the disease of someone else the same as you treat your friend's. Sad, very, very sad. That's all I have to say. I don't think Rufus is really a bad guy. After all, we shouldn't attribute to malice something that can adequately be described by stupidity. Curt Always the pillar of wisdom... Indeed. Know your place, bitch. Curt Curt, You took your rightful place in bitchdom when you dragged mommy into the fray.
So now you hate your mommy too? Jesus, Ken, you've got issues. :lol:
Curt
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rufusandcompany
Jun 3, 2006, 5:22 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You know, I vowed to myself not to get involved in these sorts of threads. I vowed to myself that I would only participate where I thought my input might be valued. I'm breaking that vow because I feel you have committed a great injustice, a rather vile act. The above posting is grossly patronizing and pathetic. Nothing but self serving justification for crossing the line of what it means to be compassionate and civilized. You guys were trading barbs pretty aggressively but nothing truly personal. You made it personal. You took a shot at the extreme misfortune of someone else only to stroke your ego. You simply kicked a guy while he's down and that's just plain wrong. 'Keeping it real' is fine for someone that is OK with it and perhaps close to you but you have no right to treat the disease of someone else the same as you treat your friend's. Sad, very, very sad. That's all I have to say. I don't think Rufus is really a bad guy. After all, we shouldn't attribute to malice something that can adequately be described by stupidity. Curt Always the pillar of wisdom... Indeed. Know your place, b----. Curt Curt, You took your rightful place in b---- when you dragged mommy into the fray. So now you hate your mommy too? Jesus, Ken, you've got issues. :lol: Curt
No. I just don't appreciate your dragging mommy into your chicken shit issues - http://i9.photobucket.com/...kencangi/trink42.gif
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jt512
Jun 3, 2006, 6:54 AM
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In reply to: The correct acid to use is readily available-- just get yourself a cheap battery at walmart or sam's or an outo parts store and use what's in there. THis is the most likely souce of trouble, and already at the correct concentration for your testing, and you can find it just about everywhere.
So you are suggesting that the rope was soaked in battery acid?
What is so important about the concentration of acid in a battery? It seems unlikely that the rope (or any rope) was damaged by direct contact with the acid from a car battery. I don't know anyone who transports their ropes in the engine compartment of their car. More likely, if a rope were damaged by battery acid, then the damage would be from the fumes of the acid, not direct contact with the acid.
But, even assuming that there was chemical contamination, why assume it was battery acid? Indeed, why assume it was acid at all; are there no other solvents that could weaken a rope?
Jay
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reno
Jun 3, 2006, 12:24 PM
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In reply to: It's been said that critical illness has been known to enlighten people to their stupidity, but I see no sign of it, in your case.
You are a piece of shit of the highest order, Rufus.
Disgusting.
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dirtineye
Jun 3, 2006, 1:14 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The correct acid to use is readily available-- just get yourself a cheap battery at walmart or sam's or an outo parts store and use what's in there. THis is the most likely souce of trouble, and already at the correct concentration for your testing, and you can find it just about everywhere. So you are suggesting that the rope was soaked in battery acid? What is so important about the concentration of acid in a battery? It seems unlikely that the rope (or any rope) was damaged by direct contact with the acid from a car battery. I don't know anyone who transports their ropes in the engine compartment of their car. More likely, if a rope were damaged by battery acid, then the damage would be from the fumes of the acid, not direct contact with the acid. But, even assuming that there was chemical contamination, why assume it was battery acid? Indeed, why assume it was acid at all; are there no other solvents that could weaken a rope? Jay
LOL, and they say jt512 has no sense of humor!!!!!!!!!
Jay, I'm afraid that, try as you might, you will never reach the astonishing level of expertise of the Juggernaut of Junkthink, or even that of the Oligarch of Obfuscation, but, this is a damned good effort, nonetheless!
And you sure put a laugh in my belly this morning, ROTFLMAO!!!!!
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dirtineye
Jun 3, 2006, 1:36 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: It's been said that critical illness has been known to enlighten people to their stupidity, but I see no sign of it, in your case. You are a piece of s--- of the highest order, Rufus. Disgusting.
COme on now, it does not bother me to watch someone grab a lot of rope and use it to hang themselves.
Be nice to the poor guy, he's chokng to death and doesn't even know it!
I'm speaking allegorically and not literally, bien sur.
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