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Potter Climbs Delicate Arch
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grover


May 10, 2006, 4:10 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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Funny how in South Dakota, drilling and blasting a massive rock face for a tourist trap is kosher, and in Utah, simply soloing up some choss pile is a way to get lynched.


Hmmmmm..... me thinks you all rather be pickin on bigger problems...

punters......


zozo


May 10, 2006, 4:15 AM
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In reply to:
Funny how in South Dakota, drilling and blasting a massive rock face for a tourist trap is kosher, and in Utah, simply soloing up some choss pile is a way to get lynched.


Hmmmmm..... me thinks you all rather be pickin on bigger problems...

punters......

yup,

I put this thread in a pot on the stove, boiled the piss out of it for three hours and reduced it down to a nice sticky syrup and found I had a "Climbers pissed at people for climbing things" thread.


josephgdawson


May 10, 2006, 5:20 AM
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Re: Dean Potter climbs Delicate Arch... [In reply to]
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I must agree with Gill that Potter's behavior is unprofessional. It reminds me of people making illegal ascents up Everest and then bragging about it publically. With regards to access it was not bright and tends to upset the bureaucrats. I would go so far as to say that if he climbed it that is his business, but he should not have gone public with it.

On the other hand, I agree with that Potter's statement, "What has our world come to if we cannot join nature by climbing one of nature's most beautiful features?" I am no fan of the NPS and wilderness rules strike me as an oxymoron.


curt


May 10, 2006, 6:41 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Isn't white the usual color of bird shit? How more natural can you get? :D

Curt


HA! :righton:

Impressions last longer than chalk.

Curt, you fight for your precious bouldering in Queen Creek to keep it from the mining, but you could care less about Arches?

I care about climbing access everywhere. If you were unable to tell that my earlier post was meant to be funny, then I would say that your humor bypass surgery was a complete success.

Curt


slcathena


May 10, 2006, 7:12 AM
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In reply to:
Let's attempt to use some reasoning:

Example one:
Dean Potter breaks a climbing rule/law in a National Park.
Park Authorities take away climbing for everyone.

Example two:
Someone illegally breaks the speed limit.
Highway Patrol takes away all driving privileges to licensed drivers.

This lacks reasoning.
As such, it seems the Park Authorities are trying to specifically bully the climbers.
Laws/rules will be broken, by climbers and tourists - anybody. It will happen.

What lacks reasoning is this analogy. Dean Potter isn't just "someone." Rules/laws change all the time because of high profile instances. Think Enron. Additionally, they are more likely to change when the population affected is significantly smaller than the population writ large. I'm sure the NPS would have no problem closing access to rock climbers in order to protect it for the bulk of other people who visit the park, and they are much more likely to do it when someone of note breaks the rules so egregiously than when climber x does it randomly.


couloir


May 10, 2006, 7:24 AM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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9 pages in two days! Must be some sort of record. Keep on fighting the worthless (I mean good) fight on the online battlefields.


fredo


May 10, 2006, 1:53 PM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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[quote="dingus"]
In reply to:
In reply to:
ps. If Sherman hadn't advertised Hueco and brought in the masses, quien sabe?

Let me pose a question... if Potter had climbed that thing and only told a bud or two, and nothing else... how would that affect your opinion of the whole thing? So instead of reading about it here, you hear it from your Bro one night at the Climber's Bar...'say, didjya hear Potter bagged Delicate Arch?"

All quiet, hush hush, strictly on the Q T. Still warrant comdemnation?

Just curious...

DMT

In my opinion yes. The difference to me is the portrayal. He was quoted saying it was his best climb and about the energy on top of the Arch, but then thumbs his nose at the officials. If he has an axe to grind fine, but do not confuse the two. The spirituality of climbing vs. making a point. Both are diminished.


ddriver


May 10, 2006, 2:43 PM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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From today's Salt Lake tribune:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3804296#

"Potter was unrepentant Tuesday, saying he is "not sorry for my actions at all."
He said he did not read the regulations before Sunday's climb but did ask several rangers about the park's regulations. He said now that the wording has been changed, he will follow the rules.
"I didn't want to break the law, and I didn't break the law," he said. "The suggestion that I did something illegal causes harm to me and my reputation. I'd be surprised if anybody would find anything wrong if the story had just been 'man climbs rock,' or 'man communes with nature.' "

As others have stated, it has long been clear that climbing named arches in the park is prohibited.


http://www.nps.gov/arch/climb.htm

"Regulations

Use of motorized drills is prohibited.
Climbing is prohibited on any arch identified on current USGS 7.5 minute topographical maps; on Balanced Rock year-round; on Bubo from January 1st to June 30th; on Industrial Disease on the Devil Dog Spire from January 1st to June 30th.
The use of chalk for climbing must be of a color which blends with the native rock.
Climbers are encouraged to employ clean-climbing ethics, leave dull-colored webbing when recovery is impossible, and access climbing routes via established trails, slickrock or sandy washes."


Most are probably aware, but Delicate Arch has greater significance than any arch in the state. The only thing that would raise more stink than this is Rainbow Bridge.

http://www.us-way.de/license-plates/116.jpg

Draw your own conclusions.


fishbelly


May 10, 2006, 4:00 PM
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I will boycott Patagonia until they fire Potter and make restitution's to the Park Service with an apology.


marc801


May 10, 2006, 4:01 PM
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Here's today's editorial comment from the SL Trib that sums things up pretty well:
In reply to:
Elevated ego: Climber who scaled Delicate Arch deserves stiff penalty
Tribune Editorial

Dean Potter and a few irresponsible all-terrain vehicle riders have two traits in common: They are stubbornly determined to go where no humans have gone before, and they believe that rules meant to protect the landscape don't apply to them.

Potter is the professional climber who scaled Utah's most prominent icon, Delicate Arch, Sunday, despite Arches National Park rules against climbing all its named arches. Making the ascent had become an obsession, he said. We see it more as an ego trip and a chance to advance his climbing career.

That Patagonia, whose outdoor gear Potter promotes, had plans to use the climb in its advertising seems the most probable motive for the stunt.

Potter obviously did not consider the potential harm he could cause by disregarding park regulations. Or he simply put his own personal gratification - or was it a need for attention? - ahead of any concern for the unique rock formation he claims was "vibrating with energy" as he stood on its top. If the huge old arch could vibrate, indignation or outrage would be a more likely cause.

His rationalization that he did not harm the 45-foot natural sculpture - "I respected the arch to the fullest. I did no more than blow a little dust off a few handholds" - does nothing to excuse his behavior. It's the same reasoning that takes ATV riders off established trails and into untrammeled territory. How much damage can just one vehicle do?

That argument has a hollow ring. Once an ATV has shoved its way through formerly pristine forest or desert, its track becomes a trail and others will soon follow. That may also be a consequence of Potter's climb, and Park Service prohibitions will only make it more of a challenge to those who, like Potter, care little about the reasons behind the rules. His legacy may well be a damaged and violated Delicate Arch, not a notable sports achievement.

Whatever penalty the Park Service exacts, we hope it includes a lifelong ban of Potter from Arches National Park.

Potter wonders "What has our world come to" if climbers are prevented from scaling "one of nature's most beautiful features"? Despite what he seems to believe, the world is not Potter's personal playground and it will be better off if no other climbers follow his hedonistic example.


dingus


May 10, 2006, 4:02 PM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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So... assuming the gossip is correct and Potter exploited a loop hole in the climbing regulations, what's left for you law and order types to hang the hat of shame on Potter? White chalk? Publicity hound? Film crew?

What?

I am swayed by the 'negative perception' arguments offered here and elsewhere. I think most professional climbers are 'guilty' of self-promotion to one extent or another. One poster here suggested it was my fault in a sense, for hero worshipping the likes of Potter and Thesenga.

I had to laugh at that... I haven't bought a climbing mag in YEARS. I haven't bought a climb vid EVER. I don't own any autographed Dean Potter chalk bags. I couldn't quote a Thesenga article if I tried. I've never met either man and I am quite sure I could pass them on the street and not recognize either one.

Hey Roy? Bought a climbing mag in the last coupke of years? if so man, you're part of the problem too. Stop the hero worship man, stop it where it counts... the pocket book. If no one buys what they're selling... it all just stops.

The consumer rules the roost.

DMT


hugepedro


May 10, 2006, 4:36 PM
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Re: Ass Hat Potter Climbs Delicate Arch [In reply to]
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What is this loophole? Can someone explain it please?

Regardless if he found a loophole, he caused a big stink that could affect the access of others. That is his "crime", in my opinion. He has to be a total idiot if he didn't anticipate that his actions would be controversial. His actions, and his defiant attitude after the fact, are the stuff of a self-absorbed, self-serving prick.

The Park should throw the book at him, and I agree with the editorial posted above, a lifetime ban form Arches would be appropriate and send a message to others who might follow him.


roy_hinkley_jr


May 10, 2006, 4:46 PM
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There was no loophole. There was no question about the ban. There is no doubt that countless other capable climbers had more respect for that rock. Any climber that has spent time in the area (let alone lived there for a decade) absolutely knew it was off limits. The ones who climbed Delicate before Potter, and other protected summits, had enough class not to thump their chest and thumb their nose. He broke the biggest rule of all secret climbs, let alone the law.

In reply to:
Hey Roy? Bought a climbing mag in the last coupke of years?

Last one I paid for would have been around 1980. You say the "consumer rules the roost" yet get all bent out of shape when the "drones" decide to speak out when they perceive idiocy. Your vehement defense of fools sure makes you look like a brown nose or a hero worshipper.


marc801


May 10, 2006, 4:51 PM
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In reply to:
What is this loophole? Can someone explain it please?
Potter explained that he interpreted the "...no climbing on named arches..." regulation as meaning no pitons or bolts and that somehow free soloing a route isn't "climbing" the arch.

There is no loophole, just a lame attempt at justification.


dingus


May 10, 2006, 4:52 PM
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And your self righteous attitude makes you seem like a prick. We all have our crosses to bear.


DMT


hugepedro


May 10, 2006, 5:04 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
What is this loophole? Can someone explain it please?
Potter explained that he interpreted the "...no climbing on named arches..." regulation as meaning no pitons or bolts and that somehow free soloing a route isn't "climbing" the arch.

There is no loophole, just a lame attempt at justification.

Thanks.

If he expects that anyone other than a know nothing tourist would believe that that was his honest interpretation he's and even bigger idiot than I thought.


yanqui


May 10, 2006, 5:11 PM
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Wow. I never imagined so many climbers took their ambassadors so seriously. You know, putting them up to such tight scrunity and all. Well, I suppose they are the ambassadors. And where would climbers be without ambassadors? I am inspired by this thread to be stern and judgemental with the ambassadors. Just like that Tribune editorial. This whole thing should go down on Potter's permanent record.

Frankly I could care less about the ambassadors, unless maybe I get to meet them and get know them as people. So Potter likes to push things sometimes. Big deal. I doubt this stunt will have much bearing on future access. If it does, THEN start a thread dissing Potter. Until then, what the hell difference does it make? Meanwhile, how's the AIR QUALITY in SLC during those lovely winter inversions? Air quality like that is what I call an environmental problem. Not a couple of skid marks where rappel ropes passed over some rock. Just my opinion.

I was thinking it would be kind of funny if the Delicate Arch just collapsed. You know, all by itself. Those kinds of things happen in nature, all the time. Maybe we could blame Potter.


clayman


May 10, 2006, 5:15 PM
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I have to agree that the fact the it was filmed and done in a "look at me" fashion, is pure stupidity. I really don't care that much about breaking of NPS rules. However, if you chose to break the rules and you get caught then you should be prepared for all that comes with getting caught, including elevating access issues.

I, one day, plan to do some climbing at Skytop (Gunks). But, f*ck sake, I sure as hell don't want anybody, except my close friends to know about it. And in the event that I get caught and the Preserve decides to institute some policy to more tightly control who climbs at the Trapps, I WOULD deserve a lynching.

"What has our world come to if we cannot join nature by climbing one of nature's most beautiful features?"
Although I agree with the essence of this statement, when you juxtapose this against the manner of the climb, it comes across as sanctimonious drivel.

cl


wilcox510


May 10, 2006, 5:48 PM
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Yanqui - I agree using the term "ambassador" as Patagonia does is ridiculous. But the fact is Potter is a very high profile climber who has already pissed off the NPS on multiple occasions, and NPS climber relationships are already very strained. His denial that he was doing something illegal is bullshit, he's just playing semantics. Whether or not he really did degrade the environment is not the issue to me, it's that he was being a selfish prick and putting further strain on climbing access. And yes, the inversions here in SLC are pretty disgusting.


yanqui


May 10, 2006, 6:23 PM
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In reply to:
But the fact is Potter is a very high profile climber who has already pissed off the NPS on multiple occasions, and NPS climber relationships are already very strained. His denial that he was doing something illegal is s---, he's just playing semantics. Whether or not he really did degrade the environment is not the issue to me, it's that he was being a selfish prick and putting further strain on climbing access.

Let's just hope the NPS has the good sense to crack down on Potter and not anyone else. I think we can agree on this.


dingus


May 10, 2006, 6:59 PM
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http://www.supertopo.com/...ic_id=190654&f=0&b=0

For a lighter look at the situation.

DMT


wyjames


May 10, 2006, 7:49 PM
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Whether there are obvious repercussions or not the NPS will definitely remember this publicity stunt (that what it is) and I am sure NPS doesn't care about Potter misinterpretation of the rule. Ever worked with children? they also use the misinterpretation excuse, for a supposed professional it is lame.

Climbing may have a history of rebelliousness, but unfortunately we have outgrown our history. Like it or not climbing is becoming more mainstream and access is becoming increasingly sensitive everywhere as more and more climbers venture out onto the rock.

I find it extremely selfish for a well known and well traveled climber to risk (it was a risk whether or not there is a fallout) access and well as risk bad press (this is definitely happening) just to climb a short 5.9 (not even an FA) on an iconic formation. Maybe Mt. Rushmore will be next, that would make a great Patagucci ad

Too bad, and yes I have met Potter coincidently I wasn’t impressed by him in person either.

Later, James


dingus


May 10, 2006, 8:09 PM
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In reply to:
Climbing may have a history of rebelliousness, but unfortunately we have outgrown our history.

Clearly we have not. I hope we never do.

Long live the adolescents!

Purging the rebellion from climbing would kill the goose that laid the golden egg. I want no part of your brave new world.

DMT


wyjames


May 10, 2006, 8:12 PM
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It is your world Dingus I'm just living in it!


kjclimbing


May 10, 2006, 8:15 PM
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Great PR move on Potter's part - he's gotten more press in the last 24 hours on blogs, message boards and news reports than in the last 24 years. Not sure if Patagonia is so stoked. They says that they are "checking into it" and will review weather or not he'll get the boot from their payroll.

Pretty weak that he had the time to get cameras and others ready for the climb but he couldn't stop by the climbing shop to pick up some brown chalk. Ambassador, pfft.

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