May 22, 2007, 3:17 AM
Post #26 of 81
(2164 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 3118
Re: [iamthewallress] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
iamthewallress wrote:
I love that the option for those who profess to prefer the R/X is up to two dozen peices of pro.
That's two full sets of cams, micro to enormous...or a set of nuts and a double set of cams in the fingers to hands range.
That is actually a point! Didn't really notice it, 'cause I know I carry too much gear now days. I used to do easy (up to 5.7) multi-pitch PG rated slab climbs with 2 sets of nuts (technically 26 pieces, but I never used the smallest ones). And I have seen plenty of people onsight 20m+ well protected routes with a handful of nuts and couple cams.
May 22, 2007, 2:14 PM
Post #28 of 81
(2115 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 275
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
General level of leading trad: 5.9
Hardest trad lead: 5.10d
Typical length of pitches in your area: Pitch length varies from as short as 40' at my local crag to full on 200 footers on NC multipitch...most often, cragging, they're 80-100 ft.
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack: For pitches less than 100' or so, my rack is commonly what follows:
If I know multiples of a size are required, I'll add doubles in cams in that range or take some hexes (yes, I use them)
For typical SE multipitch, I add half a set of nuts, tricams brown and blue (one each), TCUs 00 & 0, double cams C4 0.5-2
For routes that have long pitches and are totally unknown, I'll rack 1.5 sets of nuts, tricams pink thru blue (2x pink and red), double set of cams TCU 00 - BD C4 3, and one 4" piece.
May 22, 2007, 2:22 PM
Post #29 of 81
(2109 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 254
Re: [angry] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
angry wrote:
All the R/X routes I've done were R/X because I couldn't get any gear into it, no matter how much of it I carried.
1,2,3,4 dozen cams on an R/X route, you still only find a spot to place one (badly).
The rating is about the rock taking gear, not the rack you carry.
My point was that people that carry almost no gear make normally protectable routes R or X routes based on the fact that they don't have enough gear to protect it. It was supposed to be hinting at sarcasm too, FWIW. Peter
May 22, 2007, 2:25 PM
Post #30 of 81
(2103 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 726
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
General level of leading trad: 5.7-5.8
Hardest trad lead: 5.10a
Typical length of pitches in your area: 2-3
This really isn't my standard rack per say, but this is what gets taken up on the long routes that can throw anything at you.
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack\:
43 pieces in total, 21 cams
1-11 hexes (except a #6 that's in capitol reef utah somewhere) two sets of wc rocks set of trango brassies 1-8 metolius powercams .5-9 trango flexcams 7-9 rock empire robots pinky tricam purple bigbro
Most of the time I'll run with the metolius and trango cams and one set of nuts, if it's a long route i'll bring the extra set of nuts, and if the route takes wide gear i'll take the rock empires and big bro, thin gear routes get the brassies... little pinky always comes along.
(This post was edited by kobaz on May 22, 2007, 2:27 PM)
May 22, 2007, 2:35 PM
Post #31 of 81
(2093 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 12, 2002
Posts: 287
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
john,
i ran into a guy who climbed with you for a weekend this spring and he saie that you onsighted ruby's, is that true? if so, fck an a, nice work!
great thread with a nice absence of flaming. here's my info.
general consistent (90%) onsight level: 5.10/5.10c best onsight: several in the 11+/11d range
where do i climb: pretty much everywhere i can. my favorites are the desert, south platte, vedauwoo, lumpy, lover's leap, etc.
standard rack: this is very highly dependent on where i am climbing, the route, etc. if it is a long, sustained crack route that has long, sustained pitches that vary from tips to fist and gear anchors every pitch, i usually carry an arsenal (partly because i am too lazy to pare it down and i am used to it)
2 sets micro nuts- HB's and BD's (like having both, because when you get this small it is crucial to get the best fit that you possibly can) 1.5 sets of medium and large stoppers 3 smallest ballnutz set of tcu's from silver to orange set of offset aliens (use these a ton) 2 sets camalots from .5 to 3 1 new #4 c4 camalot.
again, it is highly dependent on where and what i am climbing. at vedauwoo, i will carry a double set from small to tall in my pack, and then rack for the pitch accordingly. at the creek we usually carry 6 to 10 sets of cams and rack accordingly. eldo, usually a lot of small stuff and maybe 1 #2 camalot and 1 #3 camalot based on route description.
May 22, 2007, 2:50 PM
Post #32 of 81
(2089 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2005
Posts: 344
Re: [studclimber] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Hardest trad lead: 5.12b (but it fit my fingers perfectly and my style so I thought it was more .11dish). Lately: redpointing 5.12a's, onsight: 5.11d
General Level of trad leading: 5.11c-d
General length of local area: Paradise Forks so its 20-30m
General Rack: Depends on the route: For a route like Loose Lips (5.10d, 20ish meters) its 1 grey (0.4) microcamaolot, 1 purple (0.5) camalot, 2 green (0.75 camalots) and 1-2 red camolots (5-6 pieces), for Three Turkeys (5.11c; 0ish meters) 1 red 3C cam 1 grey (0.4) camalot, 1 purple (0.5) camalot, 3 green (0.75) camalots, 2 red (1.0) camalots (8 cams). For Mutiney on the Bounty. 3 blue (0.3) camalots,4 grey (0.4) camalots, 3purple (0.5) and 2 green (0.75)...........
And I agree with Angry, the routes that I've done that are R/X you usually only get 0-3 pieces in so it doesn't matter if you carry the kitchen sink or not, since if you can't place it, its doesn't matter if you carry it or not.
(This post was edited by cchas on May 22, 2007, 2:55 PM)
May 22, 2007, 3:17 PM
Post #34 of 81
(2065 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 9, 2005
Posts: 344
Re: [kobaz] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
kobaz wrote:
cchas wrote:
Hardest trad lead: 5.12b
I feel weak.
Why? Ain't it all relative. I look at Angry and feel weak, and I know some women that walk up things I fall on. If our name isn't Caldwell or Trotter, I suppose then we are weak, and for me, I don't care since I figure I can always get better.
(This post was edited by cchas on May 22, 2007, 4:47 PM)
May 22, 2007, 3:46 PM
Post #35 of 81
(2047 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 152
Re: [studclimber] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
General level of leading trad: 5.7-5.8
Hardest trad lead: 5.9
Typical length of pitches in your area: 70' -150' multipitch
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack:
Multipitch rack: two sets of nuts,18 Cams C4's from .4 to 4 (doubles from .4 to 2) C3's 00-2 and WC zeros 1 and 2. I also carry 10 trad draws and anywhere from 4 to 6 over the shoulder slings with binners.
I typicaly lead long wondering pitches at J-Tree, Tahquitz, and Yosemite. Even though I carry upto 18 cams I find myself placing very few, It seems I place more nuts then cams. But due to the multipitch stuff I climb I figure three cams are always lost at all times on mine or my partners belay. And they always seem to be the most useful ones for the pitch. I am getting comfortable with this rack and would use it quite offten. So flame away when you see me at the crag but it works for me.
May 22, 2007, 5:05 PM
Post #38 of 81
(2006 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
Re: [angry] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
angry wrote:
All the R/X routes I've done were R/X because I couldn't get any gear into it, no matter how much of it I carried.
1,2,3,4 dozen cams on an R/X route, you still only find a spot to place one (badly).
The rating is about the rock taking gear, not the rack you carry.
I got the other guys point...He was asking how many folks prefered to travel light at increased risk.
Why would you take 4 dozen cams on route with one or two placements if you knew that was the deal?
I guess I thought (at least around here where the rock is strong and varied) a 'standard' singles rack would be a set of nuts (10) and cams from green (or blue) alien to yellow or blue camalot...maybe grey. (10 or 11) As a starting point without pairing down to the bare necessities that is less than two dozen pieces and allows for a peice at least every 10 feet on a 100 foot pitch with a pile left over.
A lot of times I skip the nuts and bring extra cams for a total of around 15 or 16 peices.
Or if it's hard at a particular size, I bring extra cams in that range and the small nuts...back up to 20ish peices.
Running it out has its place, but I don't need to run it out with that rack unless I'm running really, really long pitches.
Beyond a full set of double cams (around 2 dozen cams, maybe less), it gets too heavy for me to move.
(This post was edited by iamthewallress on May 22, 2007, 5:06 PM)
May 22, 2007, 6:36 PM
Post #39 of 81
(1981 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
Re: [iamthewallress] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
iamthewallress wrote:
Why would you take 4 dozen cams on route with one or two placements if you knew that was the deal?
I wouldn't if I had an inkling in advance what those placements were. I'd rock the redpoint rack for sure. If, however, all I knew was that the route carried an X, I'd certainly load up for fear I wouldn't have the only piece I could get. (But I still wouldn't schlep 4 dozen cams. Who carries that much ever?)
Note: this is my pre accident information, neither my head nor my body is climbing at this level right now.
Average grade lead: 5.8-5.9 Hardest lead: 5.10a Length of pitches: local was ~80ft, but spent a lot of time in the Gunks.
I usually carry a single rack of cams (10 cams), 1 set of nuts (sometimes 2, or a few doubles), first 4 tri-cams, on limestone hexes. Things may be added or taken away per the climb, but that's my standard rack. If I think I need extra big peices then I'll grab my hexes too.
Slings: 8 single length, 2 double length, 2 revolver draws, 2 screamers. On longer climbs at the gunks I may grab a couple of my longer sport draws too, but its not typical.
May 22, 2007, 7:02 PM
Post #41 of 81
(1964 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2001
Posts: 492
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
General level of leading trad: 5.10b
Hardest trad lead: 5.11a
Typical length of pitches in your area: average 75ft/pitch (I think)
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack:
1.5 set of nuts (12 pieces) 1 set of micro nut 8 cams (5 RE Robots & 3 Alliens). 10 slings
Like others said, it's kinda area specific. I normally climb at Seneca but if I'm going to the New, I noticed nuts aren't being used as much and those cracks can suck up cams.
May 22, 2007, 7:11 PM
Post #42 of 81
(1955 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 254
Re: [j_ung] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
j_ung wrote:
iamthewallress wrote:
Why would you take 4 dozen cams on route with one or two placements if you knew that was the deal?
I wouldn't if I had an inkling in advance what those placements were. I'd rock the redpoint rack for sure. If, however, all I knew was that the route carried an X, I'd certainly load up for fear I wouldn't have the only piece I could get. (But I still wouldn't schlep 4 dozen cams. Who carries that much ever?)
He he, I totally should have left that r/x out of the poll description. While I've never undertaken an X rated route, I standardly do R routes (I like the thin stuff, especially if it's a bit slabby), and I totally agree with Jung- bring the micronuts and whatever else you might need to protect it if you know that the route is hard to protect (ie honeymoon chimney which I did a couple of weekends ago that needs big bros and is still scary!).
The point of the poll was not that you are climbing an r/x route, but that you carry a super light (anorexic) rack, please don't mistake my poor wording and the intent of the thread. 24 pieces of pro doesn't make you an anorexic rack climber.
But on the subject of "light" racks, maybe someone only take 10 pieces on a 100' route. Maybe someone would rather carry only a few pieces on a long route and run it out 30' on easy-ish terrain (5.7 or such). I dunno about you guys, but that is an "R" style route to me because of how the leader led it, even though the character of the route isn't R rated in nature.
Personally, if I'm doing multipitch, I automatically count out 6 pieces of pro for 2 anchor systems. For me, that leaves 20 pieces of gear for on the route which should be plenty for even a 200' route.
Anyway, thanks again for everyone who's posted! I've been enjoying seeing how my level of climbing, the pieces I find useful, where I climb/rock-type and all that stuff stacks up. I've already seen a couple things that I'll try changing up on my rack and see how I like them (seems like people tend to have a couple more cams... might try dropping the small hex and tri-cam and sub mid-sized cams and see how I like it, or "hard sizes" like Vegas pointed out-purple and green BD... on the other hand, the reason I carry one small hex is because some cracks take hexes so much better than cams... hmm). Some really good points by everyone.
May 22, 2007, 8:07 PM
Post #43 of 81
(1932 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 254
Re: [j_ung] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Jung-
Hey, couple questions for ya.
1. What 18 cams do you carry? what ones are doubles? 2. With your slung-long cams, do you have the runner stitched at the cable to hold the sewn part in place, or do you have the whole 18" runner free floating through the u-stem? do you ever have issues pulling the stitched part of the runner through the stem of the cam when you're un-trippling/extending the sling?
May 22, 2007, 9:04 PM
Post #44 of 81
(1917 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
psprings wrote:
Jung-
Hey, couple questions for ya.
1. What 18 cams do you carry? what ones are doubles? 2. With your slung-long cams, do you have the runner stitched at the cable to hold the sewn part in place, or do you have the whole 18" runner free floating through the u-stem? do you ever have issues pulling the stitched part of the runner through the stem of the cam when you're un-trippling/extending the sling?
Thanks! PS
Hmm, lessee... Standard single-pitch rack is this:
1: #00(gray) TCU #2-9: Doubles of 0(purple)-3(orange) TCU/Power Cams (one each in every size) 10: #4(red) TCU 11: #.5(purple) Camalot 12: #6(black) Power Cam 13: #.75(green) Camalot 14-15: 2x#1(red) Camalot 16: #8(l. blue) Power Cam 17: #3(blue) Camalot 18: #4(silver) Forged Friend
10 nuts that are a mix of DMM Wallnuts and Peanuts (I leave out the biggest sizes)
6 24" runners tripled as trad draws Two 17cm quick draws, which I save for anchors 1 nut tool, which I almost always forget to pack A cordalette and two lockers (but only if there is no anchor)
But like I mentioned before, this is what's normally in my pack, not necessarily what I carry up. I almost always leave out one or two cams, usually the biggest and/or smallest, and I often carry only 4 trad draws.
My wife and I own quadruples in almost every size, except the largest and smallest ones. Extras include one #5 pre-C4 Camalot (the biggest piece we own!) and a selection of Trango Flex Cams, C3s, Forged Friends and a few more Power Cams. Oh, also a single Max Cam, a lot more Wallnuts and BD Stoppers and double CAMP Tricams up to blue (#2?). We have pins and bolts, too, but we don't need to go there.
The 18" runners in the cams are free to rotate as they please. I learned early on to pull the loop with the bar tack when I need them extended.
For multi-pitch climbing, I generally add a few more spare biners and make sure to carry 6 runners.
May 22, 2007, 9:48 PM
Post #45 of 81
(1893 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
Re: [j_ung] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
Y'all carry a lot of cams! Guess it depends on where you climb, but in most places, unless the crack is wide, I find I like to carry lots of nuts and fewer cams. The weight/number of pieces tradeoff is much better that way. And I'm not just climbing on easy stuff either. On one 5.10 180 foot pitch I once did in Red Rocks, the only good gear was nuts. After I ran out of slings, I started using the cams as slings. I started with the biggest (most useless on that pitch) cams, and worked my way down, until I got to the belay! They worked great - the weight of each cam helped keep that nut in place!
Plus, I've ripped enough small cams to know that they're only good for a hard fall if the placement is really superior. In many cases, if the rock is dirty, the placement is flaring, the rock is slightly chossy, or even if the rock parallel and hard but very slick - small cams will fly right out from a good fall. Placing a cam and yanking on it tells you nothing. You need to see that the rock is clean, the crystals are solid, the placement isn't flaring, and preferably at least one of the lobes is in a divot or constriction. Either that, or the fall factor must be pretty low.
Anyway, my point is, I carry a lot of pieces if you're just counting by numbers. But weight-wise, probably much less than many, because I typically only carry one set of cams, and then lots-o-nuts (up to 3 of some of the mid-size on long pitches).
Then again, I've also done 180 foot pitches that simply won't take more than a few nuts the whole damn way. So what the fuck do I know.
May 22, 2007, 11:11 PM
Post #47 of 81
(1864 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 16, 2005
Posts: 2990
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
General Level of leading trad: 5.8 - 5.9
Hardest trad lead: 5.10b
Length of routes: 40 to 160 feet length pitches.
Gear: 11 cams: from .3 camalot to #2( 2x .75 ), #1&2 C3, Green and Yellow Alien. 15 BD nuts: from #4 to #11, #6, 7, 8 I like to have doubled even tripled. 4 tricams: 2 pink, 1 red, 1 brown. ( Gunks only )
12 trad draws: from foot long (RRG) to 3 foot long (Gunks)
May 22, 2007, 11:12 PM
Post #48 of 81
(1861 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 69
Re: [psprings] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
general: 5.7-5.10
Hardest: 5.10c
Length: Short as hell. 20-30 meters.
Gear: (28 pieces of pro) 16 cams (camalots 1-3 doubled, one .75, yellow and green Aliens, TCUs) Full set of BD nuts 3 tricams 6 draws other random bits of stuff
May 22, 2007, 11:13 PM
Post #49 of 81
(1861 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2003
Posts: 471
Re: [hyhuu] correlating level of trad lead and rack size
[In reply to]
Report this Post
Average:
(0 ratings)
Can't Post
General level of leading trad: 5.9 - 5.10 alpine ratings D
Hardest trad lead: 5.10d D+
Typical length of pitches in your area: Multi-pitch
Gear: types of pro and how many total pieces you carry on your standard rack: 1 set of DMM nuts optional 1 set of BD nuts ( I prefer the DMM) orange alien Camalot 0,5 2*0,75 2*1 2*2 3 4 optional another 0,5 another 3, a 3,5 or another 4 2 double length 6 shoulder length, 4 draws, 2 draws with a screamer 10 m of old rope for rappel (in some cases, hammer and a few pins in the bag)
gear I just bought: Hexes a set and a half pink to red tricam
my special gear that comes for special occasions: camalot 5 zero 1-6 (doubles and some triples)
gear i won't use anymore 2 aliens (till i test them camalot 0,1 0,2 0,3 0,4
14 /
13%
