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skinner
Mar 9, 2005, 10:15 AM
Post #26 of 170
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Stability?
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lightandfast
Mar 9, 2005, 10:22 AM
Post #27 of 170
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The use of CAPITAL LETTERS is not to be read as aggression, iam just highlighting :)
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skinner
Mar 9, 2005, 10:29 AM
Post #28 of 170
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You got ahead of me on your last post there..
Obviously you have reasons for your method, personally I rely on the device to supply the majority of the friction and not my hands, but since you mentioned "Military" I thought I would poke around a bit..
http://www.clarkson.edu/...c/images/low0031.jpg
and was just wondering if this ROTC poster-boy was breaching military rappelling protocol?
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skinner
Mar 9, 2005, 10:37 AM
Post #29 of 170
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You are welcome to browse through the site yourself.
http://www.clarkson.edu/...ties/rappelling.html
It is the "Army ROTC Golden Knight Battalion" website and there are a ton of photo's of army dudes being trained how to rappel, oddly enough they all (except for one dude that apparently let go) have one hand above, and one hand below their device, just as I have done for the last 30 years extensively all over this continent.
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lightandfast
Mar 9, 2005, 10:39 AM
Post #30 of 170
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hands are not so much for friction but redundancy. You have two sides to your belay device, the uphill side has zero friction, after the rope passes thru the device friction is created. It is possible to hold all your body weight with two fingers if you are below the device ( BAD! :idea: ) Now knowing were you want to hang onto in the system, your hand that is up high is basiclly "pretending" to do a job,With one hand up and one hand down, if you lost controll or smashed your lower hand its going to be game over (unless you have a prussik)
It is a choice ,with the understanding of the rappeling system why would you not? I want to be doing something with my hands, not just grabbing any part of the rope.
Does that make sence, its a hard one to type, easier to explain in person.
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skinner
Mar 9, 2005, 10:40 AM
Post #31 of 170
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Hello?
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skinner
Mar 9, 2005, 10:47 AM
Post #32 of 170
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Whatever works for you. I am not trying convert or convince you of which method is right/superior/military-approved or otherwise. I was just curious to hear your reasoning. You know rational discussion is one of the things that attracted me to rc.com
It's been fun, but I have to pack, I am going climbing in 2 hours.
Have a Great Night!
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lightandfast
Mar 9, 2005, 10:48 AM
Post #33 of 170
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enjoy your day out
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anykineclimb
Mar 9, 2005, 10:53 AM
Post #34 of 170
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wow. :shock: that was far too civil for RC.com
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viciado
Mar 9, 2005, 11:30 AM
Post #35 of 170
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Anyhow...
1- Friend. Broken ankle sustained in fall from roof involving a swing into the wall. His foot caught an angle. Snap.
2 - Friend. Torn ligaments in wrist/forearm. Crack climbing. Bad technique. Oops.
3 - Friend. Dis-located elbow. Fell in gym while climbing in bouldering cave. The skin was tight across the ends of the bones as the forearm was pointing the wrong way. Interesting anatomy lesson.
4 - Death. Initial 10 ft fall. Last piece held momentarily after fall. Enough other pieces unzippered when climber was first caught. Then the top piece failed resulting in 60 ft. ground fall.
BTW that ROTC shot was hilarious, but that's all I'm gonna say. I'm still gobsmacked at the last two uber polite posts.
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azrockclimber
Mar 9, 2005, 12:26 PM
Post #36 of 170
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In reply to: In reply to: have to laugh here, you express a concern for safety, however your profile pic at first glance makes me wonder, 3 points 1- No helmet 2- poor hand placement on rappel. 1 above and 1 below device? 3- It appers you are not using any form of a backup. I could be wrong though. Just thought i would let you know what i see within a 1 second introduction to yourself. Not wearing a helmet is not always a safety concern. Specially on rappel. Um what's wrong with one hand below and one and above the rappel device? You can't see the far side of the climber and he may well have a backup. So your point is irrelivant. Think... then post.
I was about to respond in the exact same way!! ha
Oh and I have backed up my rap 1x and I don't consider myself unsafe at all. cetain situations warrant it most do not. Knots in the end of the rope...manyl times..when the situation warrants it. but not even close to always. still safe..sound like ya don't know what your talking about
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mesomorf
Mar 9, 2005, 1:48 PM
Post #37 of 170
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It's a pretty useless question unless you correlate it with how long someone's been climbing, that is, calculate a rate.
The longer you climb, the more accidents you will come into contact with. Though the rate ought to go down as experience is gained.
I have had a few personal friends who've died. But I've been climbing so long now that deaths from "natural causes" are surpassing the accidents.
I've broken my ankle. My girlfriend broke her ankle. My climbing partner broke his ankle.
Lots of other climbers I've known have had serious injuries.
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keith_b00ne
Mar 9, 2005, 2:06 PM
Post #38 of 170
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A lot has happened since I have been gone.
1. No helmet in the pic? Sure... We have all done it at sometime, expecially those who are new in the sport or think they are uncool. I have seen a head injury and now I won't climb outside without one.
2. Hand above the rappel device.... Stability.... Have you ever heard of it? Expecially when you aren't wearing a chest harness. Yes 2 hands below the device is great too, expecially if you don't use a fricition knot such as a prusik or autoblock. Which see point 3.
3. Their is a prusik below my rappel hand. Never rappel without one. This could be debated about if they are good or bad, but I'm not going to. I am comfortable on my hand placement in this position to arrest my situation.
Safety is what lets us climb another day.
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edge
Mar 9, 2005, 3:25 PM
Post #39 of 170
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For what it's worth, I have never, ever rapped or belayed with both hands below the device either.
I have also never, ever rapped with a back-up knot.
For me, helmets are a choice depending on the route and situation, not a mandatory thing at all.
For all of you who will dismiss me as unsafe and never climb with me because of this, I am sorry to have never met you.
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Mar 9, 2005, 3:39 PM
Post #40 of 170
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In reply to: I would never let someone lower me like that, you have two hands, and two choices of were ypu can place them.
I would lower you with no hands. HA HA
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rockhound71
Mar 9, 2005, 3:58 PM
Post #41 of 170
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Luckily, only 1 friend has had a serious mishap. He broke his ankle in 3 places taking a bad fall at Smith Rock.
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strongmadsends
Mar 9, 2005, 4:32 PM
Post #42 of 170
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A couple minor scratches and sprains for myself. And blew my mcl out - partially to climbing and partially to skiing. nothing too bad.
My partner blew his ankle up pretty bad. At the gym. Idiot...
Cross my fingers...
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saxfiend
Mar 9, 2005, 5:00 PM
Post #43 of 170
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I had my feelings hurt at the gym once . . . :P
JL
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jt512
Mar 9, 2005, 5:56 PM
Post #44 of 170
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In reply to: #2 if you dont know why you have two hands down Iam not going to even bother going into it, maybe a buddy or a military friend can teach you.
The vast majority of climbers rappel with one hand above the rappel device, n00b.
-Jay
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jt512
Mar 9, 2005, 6:00 PM
Post #45 of 170
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In reply to: I read your profile and you seem to be a fairly experienced climber.
I've read your posts, and you don't.
-Jay
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wjca
Mar 9, 2005, 6:40 PM
Post #46 of 170
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Rappelling with an autoblock is the redundancy, no? I always use an autoblock, with my right hand wrapped around it controlling its grip on the rope and my left hand above my devise keeping me stable.
I have in the past rapped without an autoblock (back when I had no idea what one was). I used a figure-8 clipped directly to my harness (i.e. no extended rappel). The rope ran around my right hip where I held on to it to apply the brake. If I had chosen the both-hands-below-the-devise method, how would I have gotten my left hand around? to the brake strand? If I were to have reached across my body, there would be the risk of getting a sleeve stuck in the devise. If I reached behind myself on the left side to grab the rope, I would be applying the brake constantly and not going down.
Yeah, think before you post, asswipe (or asswipé if you want to get really fancy (pronounced ass-wee-pay)).
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lightandfast
Mar 9, 2005, 7:46 PM
Post #47 of 170
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The vast majority of climbers rappel with one hand above the rappel device, n00b.
You got it, its because they dont know the system.
Thanks for that great point.
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lightandfast
Mar 9, 2005, 7:49 PM
Post #48 of 170
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wjca -
load your prussik below device and your problem is gone, however it doesnt help your bedwetting
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edge
Mar 9, 2005, 7:57 PM
Post #49 of 170
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In reply to: The vast majority of climbers rappel with one hand above the rappel device, n00b. You got it, its because they dont know the system. Thanks for that great point.
What system are you talking about? Can you name one single reference that advocates two hands below the device?
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lightandfast
Mar 9, 2005, 8:12 PM
Post #50 of 170
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A system called common sense.
ask ask guide or industry proffesional.
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