I don't like gri gri's for that very reason. When somebody panics they usually squeeze harder, not let go.
I thought that you could pay out slack without squeezing the trigger though. Just push the tail into the device at the same time as you pull the climbers rope out. I might be wrong, as the only time I have used them is in a gym top roping situation. Don't like em really. Give me a standard device anytime.

This is exactly what you need to do (push the brake side rope into the device while pulling with the top hand. This will play out rope without the need to push down on the trigger at all and your break hand never leaves the rope. It takes a little practice to get used to but once you do it's the only way you should ever belay a leader with a gri-gri

anyhow im gonna stick to paying out slack withouht interfereing with the cam...since sudden falls wont cause me to panic and squeaze the cam harder...and will ensure that my brake hand is always on the rope...

well theres no avoiding using a gri gri..since my gym requires it and i do climb at the gym alot..

Also, a grigri can't give a dynamic belay, which is something a leader usually appreciates when they take a fall.

Gri - Gri are awesome. Why? Because of how fast you pay out slack and get it back.

Elliott

Sorry dude - wrong solution. This method of feeding out slack might work for a predictable slow clip by your partner... however a quick, desperate clip will just cause your device to lock up...

To be honest - its not the grigri's fault - you simply were not paying attention... you should only hold down the cam for a split second while you are paying out rope - as soon as you finished feeding rope let go of the cam... also whenever your partner falls look down at your hand - if it hasn't moved off the device and onto the rope you aren't belaying properly. I climb in the same gym as you - I'd highly recommending taking the lead course at the Oasis with Court - he's one of the best I've seen to teach safe belay techniques that will stay with you through out your entire climbing career... I give you credit for coming out and recognizing err in your ways - now do something about it.

Sounds like you need to stop belaying with a grigri. I suppose your gym makes you...

If the gym makes people belay with a grigri, then this seems to me to be a perfect example of why they shouldn't make people belay with a gri gri.

Also, a grigri can't give a dynamic belay, which is something a leader usually appreciates when they take a fall.

im going to take the lead course.

ok well i admit it..i made a terrible mistake while belaying a lead climber..

Congratulations on realizing that it was your fault and that the grigri didn't "fail." You are absolutely the first person I've head of not to blame the grigri for this very common belayer error.

Go to Petzl's website and download the instructions for operating the grigri, and study them. Note that almost always, the left hand is on the climber's side of the rope and the right hand is kept on the brake side of the rope. Rope is payed out to the leader by simultaneously pushing rope through with the brake hand and pulling rope out with the guide hand. However, with all but the skinniest of ropes, you cannot pay out slack fast enough using this technique when the leader yards up an armful or two to make a clip. In this case, you slide the brake up to the device, palm up, so that the fingers curl around the bottom of the device, and you use your pinkie and ring finger to squeeze the cam laterally, while you use your guide hand to pull out enough slack for the leader to make the clip. Get in the habit of pulling out enough slack for the clip and getting your brake hand back on the rope immediately, even before the leader makes the clip. This will allow you to quickly take in slack should the leader fall while clipping. Under no circumstances should you reverse the hands; that is, never hold the cam open with the guide hand and pull out slack with the brake hand.

You must always be ultra-vigilent while your partner is making an overhead clip. He has a lot of rope out, and will be in danger of decking on the second, third, and occasionally fourth bolt. Always be prepared when your partner is clipping overhead to quickly haul in slack if he falls.

-Jay

gri-gri's don't kill people... :?

people kill people.... 8^)

postal employees kill people! 8^)

Rock Oasis teaches one thing that I highly despise in a belayer. I was actually recommended to use this technique but refused and do it the way suggested by most in this thread.

They say that you should ALWAYS keep your right hand on the gri-gri. And use your left hand to both feed and pull slack from the system. ...

I feel that the rock oasis method of teaching is fundamentally flawed.

I can play out slack faster, take it up faster, and keep my brake hand on the rope at all times -- all with a gri-gri. If you can't, you're using it wrong.

What kind of statement is that?

I can swim faster using backstroke than breaststroke so if you can't, you're doing it wrong!

Logic should be a required class in college...

They say that you should ALWAYS keep your right hand on the gri-gri. And use your left hand to both feed and pull slack from the system.

Not sure where you got this information but you are 100% wrong... maybe someone misunderstood.... I know as a fact that they don't teach this method. Pulling slack with the left hand while the right is on the grigri???? How in the world does one do that? I don't think I bend that way.

As usual, this thread is a f---ing mess. You don't bend that way? Pulling slack out with the left hand while holding the grigri with the right hand is exactly how Petzl recommends slack be pulled out when the leader needs it to clip. How can you not bend that way? Do you attach the grigri to your belay loop upsidedown? Are you one of those retards who insists on clipping his belay device to his tie-in points instead of the belay loop, inspite of the fact that this orients the grigri incorrectly, twists the rope when you lower your partner, and increases the risk that the belay carabiner will be crossloaded in a fall?

-Jay

As usual, this thread is a f---ing mess. You don't bend that way? Pulling slack out with the left hand while holding the grigri with the right hand is exactly how Petzl recommends slack be pulled out when the leader needs it to clip. How can you not bend that way? Do you attach the grigri to your belay loop upsidedown? Are you one of those retards who insists on clipping his belay device to his tie-in points instead of the belay loop, inspite of the fact that this orients the grigri incorrectly, twists the rope when you lower your partner, and increases the risk that the belay carabiner will be crossloaded in a fall?

-Jay

Woaa. Easy here. Hoppinbig is a respected member of the climbing community, and from watching him belay on occasion (as him and his friends send routes that I dream of flailing on) I know that he belays perfectly safetly.

I may have been a bit misleading here. When I did that test, the fellow (hell if I know his name, short black hair, boulders pretty strong, works there) told me to keep my hand on the gri gri at all times and use my left hand to pull rope out to clip (easy enough) and reach down below the device and pull the excess slack out of the system (also easy enough). Just try it and you will see how easy it is. Now whether or not this is how Court teaches it I don't know, but I know that I have seen FAR too many belayers there, with their right hand always on the gri-gri. I simply don't like that and I don't trust the method.

And if the accident happened with an ATC, then, by your argument, the gym shouldn't use ATCs. It is not the fault of the device. For once, even the belayer realizes this.

-Jay

I guess the next question for you is, how is your confidence now that this has occurred to you? Do you feel a strong sense that you will never make another mistake again? Or do you feel as though you want to take a bit of time to think things through?

- Seyil

Jay, I think you missed his point. I read it as the gym shouldn't make people belay with a gri gri. And I agree. Gyms shouldn't make people belay with any specific device, atcs, grigris, whatever.

They say that you should ALWAYS keep your right hand on the gri-gri. And use your left hand to both feed and pull slack from the system. Personally I think this is retarded. In my world the brake hand never leaves the rope. And if it does then it leaves the rope for a split second to grab the cam, feed out the rope then get back onto the brake side.

....The whole grigri debate totally misses the point. And as far as dealing with a blown clip, a grigri is better than an atc.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with grigris, but they are likely the most misused or misunderstood belay devices out there. Gyms should not force their use.

Bottom line; it is the leaders fault, for blowing the clip, and even more so for falling while being belayed by a gumby.

Only if the belayer knows how to use it properly. My biggest issue with the grigri is the perception that they are fool-proof. I suppose this perception exists because they can stop a fall even if the belayer has his/her hands off the device. It is because of this additional perceived safety factor that insurance companies and climbing gyms favor them. In reality, of course, it is totally possible to screw-up a belay while using a grigri.

Curt

Well, that's odd. I went into my earlier post to fix a spelling mistake and I created a whole new post--that the site will now not let me delete. :roll:

Curt

I have been told that it is often the insurance company that insists that an autolocking device be used.

-Jay

You clicked the quote button instead of the edit button.

If you're doing it with a grigri, there is no option to 'panic' and hold the cam open, you should be paying attention and as soon as a fall occurs you should lock off just like with an atc.

Better to learn proper belay technique, even if that is not what the gym staff taught you.

Better to learn proper belay technique, even if that is not what the gym staff taught you.

And as far as dealing with a blown clip, a grigri is better than an atc.

In this case, you slide the brake up to the device, palm up, so that the fingers curl around the bottom of the device, and you use your pinkie and ring finger to squeeze the cam laterally, while you use your guide hand to pull out enough slack for the leader to make the clip. Get in the habit of pulling out enough slack for the clip and getting your brake hand back on the rope immediately, even before the leader makes the clip. This will allow you to quickly take in slack should the leader fall while clipping. Under no circumstances should you reverse the hands; that is, never hold the cam open with the guide hand and pull out slack with the brake hand.

-Jay

Woaa. Easy here. Hoppinbig is a respected member of the climbing community, and from watching him belay on occasion (as him and his friends send routes that I dream of flailing on) I know that he belays perfectly safetly.

Wow - Thanks JumpingRock - nice to have someone back you up on one of these boards.

I was refering to using my left hand to pull in excess slack.

For example - when your partner goes for a far desperate clip, realizes he can't do it and drops all the slack he yanked out - usually a fall quickly follows such an act - there is noway you can quickly take all that rope back in using your left hand.

Also, a grigri can't give a dynamic belay, which is something a leader usually appreciates when they take a fall.

this might sound a little dramatic but if he fell at the second bolt I woud use a running belay. I have seen this done before when guy fell at the top of the second bolt. IT was a hard catch but it probly saved him a couple of broken feet.

Yo, n00b, how about letting people that actually climb, and therefore might know what they are talking about answer the safety questions.

-Jay

Well, I think we are just dealing with misuse of a term here. All experienced climbers know what a running belay is when we are simul-climbing, but I think z_rock90 meant the belayer was literally running to take up slack. :roll: