Maybe he knows what he’s doing, some strange old school technique no longer used

maybe a part of me wanted things to go wrong, just so I could say I was there and saw it.

some strange old school technique

Oh, and be aware of simple things like your belay set up, whether or not biners are properly locked, and if your harness is doubled back, no matter how experienced you are.

it's really hard to point out mistakes and incorrect setups to some people. Who knows, maybe this climbing/belayer would have been receptive to the advice, maybe they would have told you to F off. Either way whose loss is it?

I think it all boils down to how you approach the situation and make the suggestion. Try and do so in the least threatening way

CASE CLOSED.
NO OTHER OPINIONS ARE VALID.

The climber probably won’t fall anyway, this climb is easy enough, maybe a part of me wanted things to go wrong, just so I could say I was there and saw it.

With respect, I have to say statements such as the above really bother me on public forums. The case (or thread) isn't closed unless the thread is locked. Until that happens, someone can drag this thing back into the sunlight after 2 years if they wish (which isn't all that out of the ordinary).

Did you really believe me? :shock:
I was just trying to make a point, which you yourself said you agree with.

What was your point? ...on second thought, NEVERMIND.

While I may agree with your argument, I disagree with your debate tactics.
OR
If you're suggesting that I should disregard your future posts as unbelievable, I'll make a note. .

Make up your mind dude.
Happy pissing.

Did you really believe me? :shock:

I was out climbing about a couple of months ago and I saw someone using an ATC belaying. The belayer had both hands off the rope (resting on his hips) for at least 30 seconds while I watching him. At that point he was giving the climber suggestions on how to move thru a part of the route. The climber was obviously completely new to climbing and was completely trusting the belayer, who had set up the top rope.

I said something to the belayer and he gave me a f*ck off look.

What do you do in such a situation, he is not the one going to get hurt?

Half way across the roof crack traverse the climber fell, the rope pulled through the belayers hands, not having any means of friction to stop it. Luckily the climber was only about 10-15 ft off the ground, and was not hurt by the ground fall.

I went there by my self, to boulder and solo some of the easier routes, so I had no harness or belay device to attach to the rope to help.

Yeah, there really was no reason not to say something, I have no idea why I didn't. Slow reactions I guess, or maybe my solitary, introverted nature didn't want to be bothered. I went there by my self, to boulder and solo some of the easier routes, so I had no harness or belay device to attach to the rope to help. The longest “routes” in this area are about 25-30 ft tall, and the one in the story was I’d say around 5.8+. It was a route that I have top roped, led, soloed, solo aid climbed, and done at 3 am, completely wasted, in the worst wind storm I have ever been in. It was so windy that we couldn't toss the ropes down the cliff, they would blow right back up, as if they were tied to an angry kite. I guess my point is that this is probably the least dangerous climbing area I climb at, really just a bouldering area, I never would of thought something that stupid or dangerous could of happened. And I also know about ground falls and stupid mistakes. I fell about 18 ft off an overhang onto a slab once, but somehow escaped with only a sore foot.

Oh, and I need to add, Markc, Iofstromc, knock it off, you guys are like two stoners arguing over nothing, one, If not both of you should be the bigger person, and just leave it alone. I think most of us can agree that arguments like yours add only unnecessary negativity and anger to this site. But then again, it is the internet.

The answer is easy. It is your responsibility as a human being to let the person know that a serious error is being made. I would have quietly, so as not to alarm the climber, told the belayer what was wrong, and then would have offered my assistance in helping him establish a safe belay, by offering an extra set of hands. I would then have suggested that he make his partner aware of the situation, so that the climber could assist in correcting the problem.

We all forget things, and part of being a community is watching out for one another. I am sure that the climber would have appreciated your saying something.

What if the guy that fall died ? What would you think in your head then ?
Would you blame yourself for not speaking out ?

Another thing to consider: What would you have done if said climber broke his/her leg (or sustained worse injuries) in the fall? Is preventing your/their embarassment worth a test of your first aid skills?

If I see something that's acceptable but not the way I would do it, I'll let it go. If I see something I know is dangerous (whether it's something as immediate as this example or just evidence of bad habits and half-measures), I'll speak up.

My choice is selfish, and has little to do with how the other party will receive the criticism. I want to be able to go home and sleep well knowing that I did what I could to help out. If the person ignores me or becomes defensive, at least I made an attempt.

Well, My opinion may prove to not be very popular, but I don't think you had any obligation to say anything. I think it was the climbers responsibility to check the belay and the belayers job to do it right. If the climber didn't feel it was neccessary to ensure that his life was in good hands, why should you be required to?

that said, I probably would have said something, but that's just me being nice, and like jimdavis, I'm a WFR too, and would hate to have to take time out of my day treating someone when I really wanted to work on my project.

The thing about climbing is we are responsible for ourselves, and our rope mates. I think we should all look out for each other, but I think the level of required responsibility stops at the end of the rope.