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ihategrigris
May 15, 2006, 4:08 AM
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Theres no other way to say this at this point:
LEAVE YOUR GODDAMN DOGS AT HOME!
I went to a local sport crag the other day, and counted no less than 8 dogs. This is fine, but some of these dogs were out of control, they were barking, running around, fighting with one another (I'm not kidding!), getting into other peoples packs and generally making climbing less pleasent for everyone who was around (and there were probably 40 or 50 people at that particular crag)
Please, please PLEASE stop bringing your dogs to the crag, it's a nuissance for the other climbers around and it's boring for your (out of control) dog.
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ebelay
May 15, 2006, 4:11 AM
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Blame the owner, not the dog. Piss off.
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kman
May 15, 2006, 4:14 AM
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What crag were you at?
At Grassi there was some dumb fuck there that wouldn't call his dog back, even though it was fucking around with another leashed dog and the leashed dogs owner was trying to get the unleashed dog to fuck off. The owner of the other dog just watched like a moron. Idiot owners own idiot dogs. Good owners own good dogs.
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ihategrigris
May 15, 2006, 4:21 AM
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In reply to: What crag were you at? At Grassi there was some dumb f--- there that wouldn't call his dog back, even though it was f---ing around with another leashed dog and the leashed dogs owner was trying to get the unleashed dog to f--- off. The owner of the other dog just watched like a moron. Idiot owners own idiot dogs. Good owners own good dogs.
I was at Grassi on Saturday and i think we saw the same dog. IT actually bit another leashed dog right in front of me.
To everyone out there, if you can't control your dog, especially when theres dozens of people at the crag, please leave him at home.
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buddha_monkee
May 15, 2006, 4:49 AM
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Wow you are Mr. Tough Guy. You had the perfect opportunity to have a discussion with the dog's owner. The actual owner of the actual dog that was aggravating you.
Instead you bravely ran away and posted an inflammatory message on an anonomous message board. Here is an idea for you: Die in a fire.
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pyrrhonota
May 15, 2006, 5:25 AM
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ebelay said
In reply to: Blame the owner, not the dog.
I'm pretty sure that is what ihategrigris was doing when he said "leave your dog at home"
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phang_nga
May 15, 2006, 6:07 AM
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In reply to: Wow you are Mr. Tough Guy. You had the perfect opportunity to have a discussion with the dog's owner. The actual owner of the actual dog that was aggravating you. Instead you bravely ran away and posted an inflammatory message on an anonomous message board. Here is an idea for you: .
Yes, tell us what you told the dog owners please. If you didn't say anything, then you wasted your time and now ours.
Being a life-long dog lover, I can't understand why other people don't like dogs. But I don't think that this is what the original poster was all about. The owner should make sure his/her dogs aren't being a pain in the arse to other people and other pets.
----------------
Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend. ~Corey Ford
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climbsomething
May 15, 2006, 6:59 AM
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In reply to: ... making climbing less pleasent for everyone who was around (and there were probably 40 or 50 people at that particular crag) |
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dirtineye
May 15, 2006, 7:07 AM
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Oh, HERE'S a new thread topic!!!!
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codhands
May 15, 2006, 7:27 AM
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MY DOG HATES YOUR EFFIN STINKIN' GUTS!!!!!!
Actually I don't have a pooch but if I did you bet your a$$ i'd have his hairy back when came to dealing with buttwholes like you.
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booger
May 15, 2006, 7:32 AM
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:deadhorse:
(I couldn't find the :deaddog: emoticon....) :roll:
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gordo
May 15, 2006, 11:03 AM
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In reply to: :deadhorse: (I couldn't find the :deaddog: emoticon....) :roll:
Now that's funny right there :lol:
I'd be a lot more bothered by the 50 climbers...I bring my dog sometimes, but then I very rarely see other parties, a busy day at Zoo wall maybe, but I don't bring my dog there :roll:
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anykineclimb
May 15, 2006, 11:40 AM
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WOW! B must be HUGE! or thats a size two shoe there...
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acacongua
May 15, 2006, 12:22 PM
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In reply to: Wow you are Mr. Tough Guy. You had the perfect opportunity to have a discussion with the dog's owner. The actual owner of the actual dog that was aggravating you. Instead you bravely ran away and posted an inflammatory message on an anonomous message board. Here is an idea for you: Die in a fire.
I think it's very sad that this guy had to say anything at all - either on a forum or in person.
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ambler
May 15, 2006, 12:35 PM
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In reply to: (and there were probably 40 or 50 people at that particular crag). |
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rhythm164
May 15, 2006, 12:38 PM
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That's it, next time I see you, I'm going to instruct my dog to poop on your rack!! Just kidding, I hear what you're saying, and to a certain extent I agree. I don't bring my dog to the crag, but I don't really have a problem with those who do, unless the dog is out of control like you said. But then the problem is with the owner, because the dog is just being, you know, a dog.
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wonderwoman
May 15, 2006, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: (and there were probably 40 or 50 people at that particular crag). I hate crowds at the crags. Can we get rid of those too? I think that would sove the dog problems.
Yes... Did the OP approach the 40 or 50 people and ask them to go home? Why did he have to write about it in a forum?
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treez
May 15, 2006, 5:45 PM
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In reply to: WOW! B must be HUGE! or thats a size two shoe there...
Yep! That's a 10.5 shoe. He tips the scales around 130. It's a good thing he's so nice!
http://img469.imageshack.us/...tonatbaseoflj1sa.png
Breakin the law, breakin the law! Ranger lookout on Lions Jaw.
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wjca
May 15, 2006, 5:58 PM
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In reply to: What crag were you at? At Grassi there was some dumb f--- there that wouldn't call his dog back, even though it was f---ing around with another leashed dog and the leashed dogs owner was trying to get the unleashed dog to fuck off. The owner of the other dog just watched like a moron. Idiot owners own idiot dogs. Good owners own good dogs.
Please explain how one goes about trying to get a dog to fuck off. I gotta know.
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mowz
May 15, 2006, 6:04 PM
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What about those who don't like dogs? No one ever considers the climber who just doesn't like dogs. For whatever reason, everyone, even non-dog owners, thinks that you should have to put up with dogs at the crag. I call bullshit. Owners should think about what it's like for those who don't appreciate dogs at the crag and act accordingly.
This is a perfect analogy: smoking vs. non-smoking.
Most dog owners are acting just like those who feel that smoking is their God given right (it is) and they should be able to smoke where they want because of their right. What about those who don't smoke and those who don't want the second-hand cancer that your cancer stick is expelling? What about the rights of non-smokers who have to right to breathe clean cancer-free air? What about the rights of those who don't like dogs? They get no say on who is around their space?
I have never met a dog that has kept completely silent, not gotten in my way, or just not been a nuisance for those around it.
You pro-bring-your-dog-to-the-crag-people don't think about the fact that there are those who just don't like dogs. You ask us, "What so hard about moving to another area? What's so hard about putting up with it? What's so hard about accepting the fact that there are going to be dogs?" I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your dog at home? What's so hard about leaving your dog in your backyard or asking someone else to look after your dog?" Sure, I can go somewhere else, but you can leave your dog at home.
Me? I don't like dogs. Why? I've had bad experiences.
Why don't you like cats? Why don't you like snakes? Don't those two questions sound stupid? People just don't like certain things. Get over it.
Now, people are going to respond by telling me to get over it. I'll get over it when you leave your animals at home.
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csproul
May 15, 2006, 6:13 PM
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^^^#1) Do you expect anyone to take you seriously with that going on? And #2) As long as smokers are picking up their butts... I guess there isn't a damn thing you can do about them at the crags either.
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glowering
May 15, 2006, 6:50 PM
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RE: Perfect anology
Smokers can smoke as long as the smoke doesn't pollute anyone else's air and they pick up their butts.
People can bring dogs to the crags as long as they don't invade other people's space and they pick up the poo.
If someone doesn't live up to their responsibilities address them, don't try to ban it altogether. Duh.
According to the post above smokers (or at least smoking) should be banned at the crags too. Welcome to 1984.
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kman
May 15, 2006, 6:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: What crag were you at? At Grassi there was some dumb f--- there that wouldn't call his dog back, even though it was f---ing around with another leashed dog and the leashed dogs owner was trying to get the unleashed dog to f--- off. The owner of the other dog just watched like a moron. Idiot owners own idiot dogs. Good owners own good dogs. Please explain how one goes about trying to get a dog to f--- off. I gotta know.
"shoe, go away, scram, go...ect ect." Sorry if it's too much for you to understand :?
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omerdimsum
May 15, 2006, 7:08 PM
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My occassional frustration is working through dog allergies.
I suppose allergies are one's own challenge.
But effects can range from climbing performance to health issues.
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madriver
May 15, 2006, 7:09 PM
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...mowz...please post more often...
love
MaD
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epoch
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May 15, 2006, 7:12 PM
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In reply to: ...mowz...please post more often... love MaD
second that.
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billcoe_
May 15, 2006, 7:17 PM
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If you met my dog, you'd definatly hate him.
Of course, I could send him to your house for a couple of days to crap on the carpets and pee on your furniture to insure it.
PS, a dog this big of a pain in the ass doesn't get invited to the crags, so you'll have to stop by to meet "Hank the Dog", a Jack Russell Terrier.
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azrockclimber
May 15, 2006, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: Theres no other way to say this at this point: LEAVE YOUR GODDAMN DOGS AT HOME! I went to a local sport crag the other day, and counted no less than 8 dogs. This is fine, but some of these dogs were out of control, they were barking, running around, fighting with one another (I'm not kidding!), getting into other peoples packs and generally making climbing less pleasent for everyone who was around (and there were probably 40 or 50 people at that particular crag) Please, please PLEASE stop bringing your dogs to the crag, it's a nuissance for the other climbers around and it's boring for your (out of control) dog.
haha, you were climbing with 50 other people around and you were concerned about 8 dogs ruining it for you....that is hilarious
:roll:
hmm, you'd think that you'd be prepared for that shit at a sport crag. It will never change. People are going to bring their dogs with them if they feel like it...
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tradgal
May 15, 2006, 7:36 PM
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YYYyyyyaaaawwwwnnnnn!
Anyone else tired of this debate?
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spartandano
May 15, 2006, 7:40 PM
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What about climbers who don't like people? People basically suck. Being around dogs isn't as bad because I don't have to listen to their jackass comments all day. If I choose to go to a crag that is overrun by people, I just have to nut it up and deal with it. I guess life is just unfair...
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sentinel
May 15, 2006, 8:05 PM
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ihategrigri's
Good post! http://www.rockclimbing.com/photo/photo_show.php. So glad I climb in the back country.
Sport Climbing is neither.
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kyote321
May 15, 2006, 8:24 PM
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i hate your god.
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tonloc
May 15, 2006, 8:39 PM
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dogs are so cute though, and when you get lonely you can just smear peanut butter on your.....um er...dog dish so they can have a treat...yeah thats it...fuck you for judging im lonely...
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sentinel
May 15, 2006, 9:50 PM
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Oh common he's/she a kibble monster.... Either that or one should be careful around him/her not to get slobbered to death :wink:
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tradmanclimbs
May 15, 2006, 10:18 PM
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your dog is totaly kool as long as it is NOT barking at me, digging holes. biteing me, or running through my belay or messing with my rope, pack and lunch. unfourtunatly most pooches end up doing this crap when they are left unnatended while their humans climb a cliff!!
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raymondjeffrey
May 15, 2006, 10:59 PM
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Remember people: If your dog is not a well behaved expensive, papered and pedigreed breed then leave the mangy mut at home. I will kick that mongrel right under the chops if it comes sniffin around me. I am a pedigreed dog snob and I hate muts ; especially the mangy ones with bandanas around their stupid necks. If your dog looks like you found it or bought it for a measly 50 bucks at the pound right before they euthanized it then keep it at home.
Carry On,
Jefro
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shanz
May 15, 2006, 11:07 PM
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Another dog thread this should be interesting. Here goes the ranting from you all thanks for the entertainment carry on.
Since the last dog hating thread i took my cat climbing with me (keep in mind my cat stands around 2 feet high, 3 feet long nose butt- not including tail weighs in at 19 pounds Not fat - part part lynx, part Mau) well i found out he dont like climbing prefers chasing little rock lizards instead. But he didnt bother no one and caught a nap on my pack for most of the day
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madriver
May 15, 2006, 11:13 PM
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shanz wrote:
In reply to: Another dog thread this should be interesting. Here goes the ranting from you all thanks for the entertainment carry on. Since the last dog hating thread i took my cat climbing with me (keep in mind my cat stands around 2 feet high, 3 feet long nose butt- not including tail weighs in at 19 pounds Not fat - part part lynx, part Mau) well i found out he dont like climbing prefers chasing little rock lizards instead. But he didnt bother no one and caught a nap on my pack for most of the day
...my dog could eat your cat....
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shanz
May 15, 2006, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: shanz wrote: In reply to: Another dog thread this should be interesting. Here goes the ranting from you all thanks for the entertainment carry on. Since the last dog hating thread i took my cat climbing with me (keep in mind my cat stands around 2 feet high, 3 feet long nose butt- not including tail weighs in at 19 pounds Not fat - part part lynx, part Mau) well i found out he dont like climbing prefers chasing little rock lizards instead. But he didnt bother no one and caught a nap on my pack for most of the day ...my dog could eat your cat....
I did forget to mention my cat is only 11 months old. Give him another 6 months we will see :D
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climbsomething
May 15, 2006, 11:45 PM
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I demand crag kitty photos.
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shanz
May 15, 2006, 11:58 PM
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Will get some pics next time i take him
Just noticed the posters name and the title of the thread - thats alot of anger :twisted:
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tenesmus
May 16, 2006, 12:12 AM
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the onlyl thing I hate worse than your dog is your cat
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austinclmbr
May 16, 2006, 12:52 AM
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I take my dog ( Zane)to the crag all the time, 135lb Rott. And I am real cool about it, I tell everyone.."everyone, if this dogs gets in your stuff...kick him!!, if he steps on your rope, kick him twice!! and if he kills you or your dog, you or your dog should have been on a leesh! (Zane is always on a 15 foot leesh, tied out of the way, dogs have a right to be outside just like humans, tied up where they belong!!)
-J
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tradmanclimbs
May 16, 2006, 12:56 AM
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what if i can't get down the trail because your rotti won't let me by. Is that any diferent than if i had a knife or a gun and threatened anyone who came down the trail that i didn't like??
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austinclmbr
May 16, 2006, 1:41 AM
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tied up out of the way, not in the way silly, besides, I gave you permission to kick 'em, he will get out of the way
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tradmanclimbs
May 16, 2006, 2:03 AM
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Not into kicking dogs. also not into being threatened. most times when a dog has threatened me at a cliff the owner is several pitches up and the dog won't let me up the trail as the owners packs are on the trail. Other times the dog is on leash and walking with the owner but goes totaly ballistic when you meet up on the trail. It is A PITA!! If I pulled that crap I would be in jail but because it is a nice poochy poo it is ok :roll:
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vivalargo
May 16, 2006, 2:13 AM
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You can't help but notice that some dog owners are very inflamatory and reactionary that restraints on their or any dog's freedom be discussed. You are a bad man for even suggesting such and you should burn in hell.
Huh? A dog is an intrusion into any human space. I welcome the intrusion of my dog into my space (most of the time), but I know others don't (he's a huge Rot), and I won't force him on others who might have a problem (like fear) only to say they have no right to feeling that way. That's to grant a dog more rights than a human being, insisting that you either have to enjoy my dog or ignore him or just bugger off. I would wager to say that anyone who does so has a thorny time in human relations, and has some work to do on that account. It's also an earmark of a character disorder to always blame the other person (not the other dog) for any conflicts, and with this population (which many psychologists refuse to even deal with) there's no helping them because they don't have a problem--you do.
JL
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sbaclimber
May 16, 2006, 2:15 AM
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In reply to: Not into kicking dogs. also not into being threatened. most times when a dog has threatened me at a cliff the owner is several pitches up and the dog won't let me up the trail as the owners packs are on the trail. Other times the dog is on leash and walking with the owner but goes totaly ballistic when you meet up on the trail. It is A PITA!! If I pulled that crap I would be in jail but because it is a nice poochy poo it is ok :roll:
A rottweiler on the other hand.......never! I have known quite a number of rottweilers in my time, almost all of them wonderful dogs, but I would not want to piss one of them off!
And austinclmbr, I realise you either aren't being serious when you say, 'kick him', or you honestly think he won't bite back, but imo you are playing with fire. All it takes is one little nip by your (big) dog, and you may find yourself being sued and/or Zane getting one last jab with a needle. I am not saying it would be Zane's fault, just yours for assuming certain things, and the other person's for being stupid enough to take you at your word.
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austinclmbr
May 16, 2006, 2:33 AM
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Lets just say I have light feelings about this issue. Truth be told, Zane is a trained rescue dog, and if anyone ever kicked him, They would have to deal with me (after they delt with him)
Fact of the matter is that daogs are and most likely will always be a part of craging. But mine is very well trained and always tied up out of the way. And I really fdo mean out of the way, usually about 25 feet from any trail or wall.
Now, this issue to me is a lot like kids in a restaurant. I don't mind them so long as they are behaving. But being a parent and a restaurant manager I find myself having to tell parents to SHUT THIER KIDS UP more often than having to ask dog owners to keep them off my rope. I agree compleetly that dogs and kids can be a nussence, but these are public places and if the ethics of the place are being folowed and your annoyed, go somewhere else. Are you gonna go to Chucky cheese for a romantic dinner for two? I don;t go to private land where there are no leesh laws, then bitch about the dogs, matter of fact I just deal with it, when normally I would say something at a public park where there ARE leesh laws. And if that doesnt work I call the ranger just as a table or server would come to me to complain about loud kids.
Sorry I just had to poke a little fun, it all seems so simple, and I have no idea what starting a thred like this is going to achieve.
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nola_angie
May 16, 2006, 3:07 AM
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Yeah, it's kinda annoying, but if you tie your dog up, and keep him outta the way, AND he's well behaved, what the big deal?
Personally, I've met a few of the 'under 10 years old' human variety that should have this philo. applied to them.... :wink:
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fulton
May 16, 2006, 3:08 AM
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Most dog nay-sayers are cowards. Everyone complains about dogs online. I seldom ever see dog-owners confronted at the crag by discontented climbers.
Alot of dog owners are just morons who want a friend that thinks on their level: hence 'dogs at the crag syndrome' is a chronic problem.
My advice to the dog-haters (I hate dogs as well) is to address the owners directly - try to start a fight if you can; try barking and spitting on the dog-owner.
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vivalargo
May 16, 2006, 3:10 AM
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"Now, this issue to me is a lot like kids in a restaurant."
Actually it's not, but a lot of people are trying to make it to where dogs and people are seen in the same light.
It's part of the social charter in all lands that we give kids slack to be kids, and that we don't start jummping all over them when they sound off and spill the milk and so forth. If we do, we're inverting the child/parent dynamic and expecting the kids to behave in a way that makes us feel good, whereas our attention should be on the needs of the kid.
When we extend this social charter to dogs, and expect or demand that others just "deal with it," we're proposing a screwy ideal in which dogs and human beings are held up basically as equals. That seems a little out of whack to me, but perfectly fine for others. Since no one is likely going to change their mind about this anytime soon, I agree that there's probably not much future in discussing it in any serious manner. It is interesting nonetheless to see how people react to the subject. It's a loaded topic for many people.
JL
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dingus
May 16, 2006, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: You can't help but notice that some dog owners are very inflamatory and reactionary that restraints on their or any dog's freedom be discussed. You are a bad man for even suggesting such and you should burn in hell.
Why, you may as well ask them to restrain their cocks!
You can't ask a red blooded FREE MAN to restrain his cock now can ya?
Cause with a lot of dudes and their killer dogs?
Compensating.
DMT
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colotopian
May 16, 2006, 3:32 AM
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I don't have a dog anymore. As a kid I had a boarder collie named Ben. He was the greatest dog.
I wanted to post on this thread to tell you all a story about climbing and pets. It might shed some light on a debate for whats appropriate at crags. I want to tell you about Erica though and not Ben. I got Erica about 4 years ago and she is the greatest to take climbing. Super low maintenance. She's not fast. She likes to poke around trees and bushes. One time she took a fall, and my friends and I thought we lost her. Nope! She's as tough as nails. She also keeps to herself, but wont back down if she's cornered.
(Ok the story) One time we even used her to anchor a small belayer belaying a bigger person. She did Great (Erica I'm talking about). She moaned a little at first but got use to it as was asleep before the climber came down. Animals are great to take to crags, they can really lighten up things, and sometimes help out. Below is a picture of Erica at one of the local crags. She's in really good shape right now! She use to be fat!
http://www.learner.org/...phics/u-z/walrus.jpg
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cracklover
May 16, 2006, 4:05 AM
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How about the poor dogs who are left alone at the base of a long multipitch climb? Damn, that sucks for them. The good ones just get sad and anxious, while the bad ones flip out and make themselves a pain for all those who come nearby.
You think your dog is fine with it. I've heard you say so. But I've seen your dog when you leave. You're wrong, your dog is not fine with it. You get a couple pitches up, where your dog can't see or hear you any more, and your dog gets increasingly confused, anxious, miserable. It's a cruel thing to do.
GO
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sketch
May 16, 2006, 2:29 PM
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Personally, I like dogs as long as they're well behaved. Most of my experiences with other people's dogs at the crag have been memorable. A few notable exceptions stand out in my mind, however. I would appreciate it if owners of aggressive/Territorial dogs either leave their pets at home or leave them tied up AWAY from the base of popular multi-pitch climbs. One day at looking glass, I arrived at the base of a very popular multi-pitch route only to find it guarded by two very-aggressive dogs tied up at the base, barking and snarling. The owner would frequently yell, "KILLER! SHUT UP! KILLER" When the dog snapped at my partner, we went and climbed something else. Thanks to all who train their dogs to be well behaved. For those who don't, please make an effort to make sure your dogs don't threaten others.
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mowz
May 16, 2006, 2:53 PM
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WTF does smoking being banned at the crags have to do with my post? You need to learn how to contextualize (sorry, I couldn't think of a monosyllabic word). I'm not saying that smoking needs to be banned at the crag. I used the analogy because I believe that it is a good one. Smokers are always talking about their rights but never keep the rights of non-smokers in mind. Non-smokers do the same thing. This is analogous (too many syllables for you?) to the dogs-at-the-crag-problem. Dog owners are too wound up thinking about their rights while non-dog owners are too involved with what they believe are their rights.
In reply to: RE: Perfect anology Smokers can smoke as long as the smoke doesn't pollute anyone else's air and they pick up their butts. People can bring dogs to the crags as long as they don't invade other people's space and they pick up the poo. If someone doesn't live up to their responsibilities address them, don't try to ban it altogether. Duh. According to the post above smokers (or at least smoking) should be banned at the crags too. Welcome to 1984. |
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madriver
May 16, 2006, 2:54 PM
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sketch wrote:
In reply to: One day at looking glass, I arrived at the base of a very popular multi-pitch route only to find it guarded by two very-aggressive dogs tied up at the base, barking and snarling. The owner would frequently yell, "KILLER! SHUT UP! KILLER" When the dog snapped at my partner, we went and climbed something else.
....route overcrowding solved eh?
....and to ALL the cat lovers out there.....my cat is a slut and I would appreciate your unwnated advances be left at home. It's bad enough dealing with dogs at the rock....mkay?
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madriver
May 16, 2006, 2:55 PM
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thank you mowz.....
love
Mad
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tradmanclimbs
May 16, 2006, 3:22 PM
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Mowz, please post more often. No need to change photos, the photo that you are useing now is fine :D
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epoch
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May 16, 2006, 3:35 PM
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I'd love to see kittens on that!!
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mowz
May 16, 2006, 9:35 PM
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Did your cat eat the Cockatoo afterwards?
Is that a Cockatoo? It looks like a bird and it also looks like it would taste great, if fried.
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shanz
May 16, 2006, 10:23 PM
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Not sure which is more funny the fact that this thread is still going, the two chicks grooving in the above pic or the fact that this thread was hijacked by cat people
I gotta get some pics tonight of my cat
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austinclmbr
May 16, 2006, 10:46 PM
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this is the greatest thread ever!!
it makes me think about Riemers ranch here in Austin, hard to decide which are worse to deal with...the dogs, or the goats. See, the place used to be a goat ranch, and there are still a few roaming around, particularly at the top of one wall, where they have a nasty habit of biting long hair, or stealing brightly colored hats just before you top out.
A few have bells around there necks, which is good b/c you know to be carefull as you top out, but also adds to the difficulty of the climb....like 5.10b-g (g for goat ofcourse)
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rngrchad
May 16, 2006, 10:52 PM
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Webster's definition of a SPORT CRAG:
A dog park with a cliff backdrop :lol:
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azrockclimber
May 17, 2006, 1:52 PM
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My girlfriend made me get her a cat.... I wish it was as huge and tough looking as the rest of these cats....ours just isn't very cool...
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skinner
May 17, 2006, 3:21 PM
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Try talking to the owners? Why should I spend my day at the crag chasing dogs and "irresponsible" owners around? When all I want to do is climb and not have to worry about someones dog pissing on my pack (which happened).
Last summer I was taking a group of kids climbing, and while walking along the trail at the base of the crag, a large dog bolted through the trees barking and snapping at the kids who hid behind me. I stood my ground and was subsequently bit in the elbow. He bit so hard that I could not climb that day at all, and my elbow hurt for a week. Yes I tried to approach the owner, but the dog wouldn't let me any where near him. I yelled at him through the trees, informing him that his dog had just bit me. I really didn't like the idea of his dog being loose while I had a group of kids with me.
He nonchalantly informed me that the dog was just protecting it's puppies. He had brought the whole f*$king litter with him! I chose to leave and go somewhere else, which cut the kids day of climbing in half.
Believe it or not, I don't hate dogs and have had dogs myself that I took climbing with me. Responsible owners who leash their pets and clean up after them, really don't bother me at all, but I find those owners to be the exception rather then the norm. Most of the owners I run into feel that there dog need to be running "free" rather then leashed or chained up.
But as far as blaming someone for not dealing directly with the owner(s).
BS.. why should they have to? As far as I am concerned, if dog owners/lovers want to continue taking their pets to the crag, they.. as dog owners should be dealing with the irresponsible owners as well. Or soon enough the bans will be in place, and trust me it only takes a few incidents and crag-by-crag, the bans will come, and rover will be allowed at the crag no more. (And the *dogs at the crag* threads will be no more as well)
For those curious.. it was Wasootsch Slabs, a German Shepard, and a dude who looks like Sean Penn & drives an old brown Ford F250 4x4 crew-cab with a bumper sticker that says, "Eat beef ya Bastard.. You're in Cattle Country". The reason I took note of all these details was that I stopped at the information center on my way out and reported the incident to a Park employee that informed me while unfortunate.. there was little they could do about it as they just didn't have the manpower to even send someone out.
Hopefully with my description, you can avoid this moron and possibly getting bit.
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james_climber
May 17, 2006, 3:43 PM
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thats cool
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redpoint73
May 17, 2006, 3:44 PM
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A dog at the crag pissed on my partners rope last season. Now for the uninformed, urine is one of the few substances that is actually harmful to ropes (unlike DEET, gasoline, and other things that people are paranoid about). Of course, the dog owners were too noob to realize the damage they had done. Once we informed them, they apologized, but that is about it. If I were in their position, I would have bought the guy a case of beer AT LEAST. We rinsed the rope as best we could with our water bottles, and climbed on the other end for the rest of the day. Luckily, a friend of ours has a front-loading washer, so that friend took the rope and washed it thoroughly.
Every dog owner thinks their dog is well behaved, and they are ALL WRONG. I love animals, but even the best dog is going to get into other people's packs and gear. And as well trained as your dog may be, it still has to pee.
Now I realize that your pet is a part of your family, and you want to spend time with it, and think that you did a great job of training it. Unfortunately, a dog is only as smart as a child, and even the best trained children will misbehave from time to time.
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acacongua
May 17, 2006, 3:58 PM
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That guy should buy you a new rope. A friend's dog chewed up my harness that I had bought new two months prior. They did the right thing and bought a new one for me.
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skinner
May 17, 2006, 5:05 PM
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I had forgotten about the balaclava that got eaten in a friends car by his stupid dog that he *insisted* on bringing with us. We're talking the IQ of an earthworm.. tops, one of the stupidest dogs I have ever met in my life. He promised to buy me a new one, but it never materialized.
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pastprime
May 17, 2006, 6:10 PM
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You might try using pepper spray. It does no lasting harm, but would probably keep Fido-From-Hell from bothering you again.
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cliffwoman
May 17, 2006, 7:40 PM
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pepper spray does no harm?? since when?? I've definately read about both people and animals who have been blinded by the stuff... dumb solution, you'd be overreacting.
I feel like this is just as much an administrative problem as personal -- if the parks get enough complaints about dogs they'll do something about it.
Dogs are amazing companions, and though they can be a nuisance sometimes at sites, they in no way warrant such a negative reputation. My dog has a great time at crags; its a great way for us to bond, and she DOESNT BOTHER ANYONE. Take it on a case-by-case basis.
And you never know, someday a dog might just help save your life.
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kodiakclimber
May 17, 2006, 7:44 PM
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Hmmmm, dogs as annoying as smoking. I could see that. But how about all those other things that are annoying? You know those climbers that show up acting like god's gift to the world? I can't stand them! Can they go? May I also be an intolerant SOB? If you hate everyone so much, try going to a crag where no one will bother you. Personally, I avoid certain climbing areas just because of some of the people - who I find more annoying than the most badly behaved dog.
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bluering
May 17, 2006, 7:47 PM
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WTF????
Those look like little monkeys! :shock:
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secretagent
May 17, 2006, 8:33 PM
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I have 4 dogs I would like to say,
I agree that you need to control your dogs as well as I know how hard it is to go for an all day climb while leaving your dog at home (they need water,and bathroom breaks).
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carpediem
May 17, 2006, 8:46 PM
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I would agree with the issue of dogs pissing in your pack, but get over it, wash your pack and move on... I have a dog and she comes with me everywhere I go outside, beach, climbing mnt bike, and she has never had issues with others.
Its climbing outside, not climbing in your backyard so you have to see that they are just as entitled to be there as you. Take it up with the owner if the dog is going nuts.
PS my dog never gets bored climbing... she tends to climb problems harder than you could probably send.
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tradmanclimbs
May 17, 2006, 9:27 PM
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Nobody likes your dog as much as you do, period!!! that is the diference between dog lovers and cat people. cat people assume that everyone hates their cat. Dog people assume that everyone loves their mangy, scabby, slobering, barking, hairball ass licking turd machine. As for being inconvienced by haveing to deal with where you can and can't bring you dog and what to do with your dog when you can't bring it with you. You should have thought of that before you bought the freaking thing 8^)
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sandstoned
May 17, 2006, 10:18 PM
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I will bring my dog to the crag if I want to, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. (except cry some more)
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docontherock
May 17, 2006, 10:47 PM
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Hey! Hey! HEY! This is a family site......
Please stop posting pictures of your pussies.....
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treez
May 17, 2006, 10:50 PM
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In reply to: Nobody likes your dog as much as you do period!!! that is the diference between dog lovers and cat people. cat people assume that everyone hates their cat. Dog people assume that everyone loves their mangy, scabby, slobering, barking, hairball ass licking turd machine. As for being inconvienced by haveing to deal with where you can and can't bring you dog and what to do with your dog when you can't bring it with you. You should have thought of that before you bought the freaking thing 8^)
Sweeping generalizations make you look like a braindead a$$hole.
I hardly ever feel compelled to throw out turds, so thanks!
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tradmanclimbs
May 17, 2006, 11:03 PM
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what is it about that statement that is not true?? Does anyone like your dog as much as you do other than your kids or other members of your and the dogs imediate family? most people don't hate your dog but they do not like your dog as much as you do. Everyone knows that there are a lot of cat haters out there so most cat people don't expect people to like their cats. We also don't bring our cats with us everywhere we go. the mangy mut hairball part at the end of the post was just an attempt at crude RC.com humor. Your taking ofense at that rant shows a skin that may be a bit too thin for the internet :lol:
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petsfed
May 17, 2006, 11:25 PM
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I hate dogs when I'm climbing, but I have three concepts that more dog owners should consider:
1) cryptogamic soil. If you've never dealt with it, you won't understand why dogs at desert crags are a bad idea.
2) harassing wildlife. Maybe I just climb in too many areas that have cows around, but every cowboy I ever met has told me that if the dog chases, barks, looks at, one of his cattle, he'll shoot it. I don't need to mention what happens when your dog starts harassing big horn sheep, or deer, or elk, do I? I'm certain the division of wildlife will inform you though
3) the well being of your pet. It can't be repeated enough that when you bail on the pooch, leave it unattended, it might not be getting enough water, shade, or attention. Every dog, no matter how well behaved, starts to get a little bit wild if its not getting the things it needs. Dehydration, heat exhaustion, boredom, these are bad for your dog.
I say all this having owned dogs and lived with dogs since birth. I've had some really nice ones, and some less than well behaved ones. If the dog is not on a leash that is in my hand, I will not vouch for its "good behavior". In fact, even when I have the dog on a leash, unless he's at my leg and my hand is around his collar, I won't vouch for his good behavior. I've had the best trained dog I've ever seen (and several unbiased witnesses can attest to that) get spooked and almost break my arm before, what the hell makes you think I'll trust you and your "well trained" dog? Leave them at home, PLEASE.
As an aside, if you're gonna use pepper spray, be sure of your target and watch our for collateral damage. My mother was maced once, while holding her small dog in her arms, like you would hold a baby you were burping it. The mailman was a bit skiddish you see. You can press charges against someone if their dog attacks you, but they can press charges against you if you mace them accidentally.
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treez
May 17, 2006, 11:38 PM
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I'm not offended or looking for a battle. Maybe I over-reacted a little.
So you're saying you didn't make any sweeping generalizations about "dog people" vs. "cat people"?
Like I implied above, I don't really care, I was just amused by my urge to give you a turd, cause that never happens.
I'm sure we have a common disgust with bad pet owners of all kinds.
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weschrist
May 18, 2006, 12:25 AM
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You make a very interesting point (I am talking to the OP because I haven't read the rest of the dribble that I am sure fills the rest of the pages).
I know exactly how you feel because, quite frankly, I hate you and think you should be left home too.
Seriously, if you are too fucking wound up to deal with other people (and their dogs) then stay the fuck home or go to the gym.
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sbaclimber
May 18, 2006, 12:28 AM
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In reply to: if you are too fucking wound up to deal with other people....go to the gym |
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tradmanclimbs
May 18, 2006, 1:33 AM
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Treez, Nowhers in this post have I ever said that i hate dog owners, i don't like the title of the post. I have however responded to several of the arguments in the post. yes I did make some generalazitions about dog and cat owners. Both of which are in fact accurate. just because something is politicaly incorrect does not mean that it does not have a large percentage of truth to it. A simple fact that you need to realize as a dog owner is that nobody likes your dog as much as you do. Just like with kids. You may think that your baby made a cute little mess in his diaper, just about everyone else will be on the verge of projectile vomiting if they have to clean up that mess. Its allways a whole lot more disgusting if it aint yours. that goes with dogs , cats and kids. If your dog sniffs my crotch and then licks and slobbers all over my face I will fend off poochies love attack as gently as possible and politly tell you that its fine and your dog is cute and all that other crap that polite people do when they dont want conflict or when they think that the lady with the dog has a nice ass. You will then assume that I love your dog. NOT TRUE! I am tolerateing your dog and being polite.
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weschrist
May 18, 2006, 1:40 AM
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In reply to: yeah, that sounds like a great idea :lol: 8^)
Allow me to re-phrase that:
if you are too fucking wound up to 1) deal with other people or 2) deal with their dogs, then 1) stay the fuck home or 2) go to the gym.
(btw, most people I see at the gym don't know how to deal with people, despite being surrounded by them.)
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treez
May 18, 2006, 2:08 AM
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Tradman - I took your post that I quoted as saying that somehow cat owners are ALL responsible while ALL dog owners are inconsiderate. I took offense because I am a considerate dog owner and I know several inconsiderate cat owners.
You are fully entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day. From all of us.
http://img123.imageshack.us/...23/1549/byawn4ol.png
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cosmiccragsman
May 18, 2006, 2:50 AM
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Couple of good looking friends you have Treez.
Here is a pic of my hybrid, Glacier, that I take to the crags sometime.
He never bothers anyone. He will sit by my pack, with or without leash,
and just look at you. He is a very well trained crag dog,and doesn't have a mean bone in his body
Cosmiccragsman
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...idhVfWZvn8e-2MQvyvcQ
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zeke_sf
May 18, 2006, 3:24 AM
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I've climbed with people who have dogs and I never felt like a dick by association because their dogs were cool. Frankly, I like seeing people bring their dogs if they're well-behaved. You never get elitist, dicky attitudes out of those furry slobber monsters at least. How about if they bring out of control kids? At least when they're not looking, you could kick their dog in the face! "Ruff!...Ruff!" "What's that, girl. The mean climber did what to you?"
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kman
May 18, 2006, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: Couple of good looking friends you have Treez. Here is a pic of my hybrid, Glacier, that I take to the crags sometime. He never bothers anyone. He will sit by my pack, with or without leash, and just look at you. He is a very well trained crag dog,and doesn't have a mean bone in his body Cosmiccragsman http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...idhVfWZvn8e-2MQvyvcQ
That's an awesome dog.
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tradmanclimbs
May 18, 2006, 3:28 AM
Post #105 of 300
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Not only do cat people assume that you hate their cat, they hate your cat 8^) It's kind of a My cat is better than your cat kind of thing :twisted:
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tradmanclimbs
May 18, 2006, 3:37 AM
Post #106 of 300
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See Cosmic, just because you post a cute pictuer and get a few mushy replys you now think we all love your dog :D Not! she looks like she has fleas and stinks when wet :D :D OOh but she's so cute :wink: Fleabg :D :twisted:
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sbaclimber
May 18, 2006, 5:02 AM
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AAAHHHH!!!!
And here I thought the stupid pigeons were to blame for all the guano I have to climb through!
:wink:
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weschrist
May 18, 2006, 5:36 AM
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I am begining to remember stories of a friend who traveled with a pet monkey...
...said monkey tried to face fuck some guy... as dirty road monkeys are inclined to do...
... said guy tried to stab said friend for getting the story printed in Cock and Rice...
... or so the story goes.
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treez
May 18, 2006, 5:48 AM
Post #110 of 300
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In reply to: Then you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. GO
Roger that. Color me trolled. :)
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cracklover
May 18, 2006, 12:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Then you need to brush up on your reading comprehension. GO Roger that. Color me trolled. :)
'Salright. Anyone (including me!) who's participating in this convo has been trolled.
GO
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rimzilmoon
May 18, 2006, 3:20 PM
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In reply to: WTF???? Those look like little monkeys! :shock:
Funny :lol:
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bluering
May 18, 2006, 8:23 PM
Post #113 of 300
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In reply to: Couple of good looking friends you have Treez. Here is a pic of my hybrid, Glacier, that I take to the crags sometime. He never bothers anyone. He will sit by my pack, with or without leash, and just look at you. He is a very well trained crag dog,and doesn't have a mean bone in his body Cosmiccragsman http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...idhVfWZvn8e-2MQvyvcQ
That's a great lookin' pup. He looks like he's got coyote or wolf in him.
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tradmanclimbs
May 18, 2006, 8:35 PM
Post #114 of 300
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Flea bag :wink:
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snothead
May 18, 2006, 9:01 PM
Post #115 of 300
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Anyone on either side of the debate should find this video funny:
http://www.dumpalink.com/post/1127035563/SNL_Wade_Blasingame_-_Attorney_at_Law
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crimpandgo
May 18, 2006, 9:47 PM
Post #116 of 300
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In reply to: I will bring my dog to the crag if I want to, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. (except cry some more)
Actually, .... there is lots people can do about it :) :lol: :twisted:
Unless you keep it on a leash of course :oops:
and make it minds its manners. If you don't I am sure someone at the crag will certainly offer to help you with the task..
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cosmiccragsman
May 19, 2006, 4:19 AM
Post #117 of 300
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Bluering wrote:
In reply to: That's a great lookin' pup. He looks like he's got coyote or wolf in him.
and if you spend time with them, give them a lot of love, they are very easy to train. They are also very loyal and will do anything to please you.
here are pics of some of the wolf hybrids I've had over the years.
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...aNJN8OaBrXbdxcBZ9MBg
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...-0qmdd10blhbb6cp3YKA
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...WTATdwZySJmKG8OsBPbg
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...50xVP6XiPEWc5BXbINnQ
Cosmiccragsman
NO FLEAS, Tradman. I've always been a responsible animal owner.
If you ever get down to Calif to climb, stop by and I'll show you my
menagerie, and then we can go climbing at JT :D
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treez
May 19, 2006, 4:27 AM
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Nice dogs Cragsman! I'll bet they can sing!
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cosmiccragsman
May 19, 2006, 4:35 AM
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Big time Treez. They hardly ever bark, but they sure talk and sing
I have an orchestra with my wolfs, 28 parrots, and 2 cats :)
Cosmiccragsman
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epsilon
May 19, 2006, 5:15 AM
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Here's a simple solution: bring your aid rack to the crag. Any dog that bites you, tries to bite you, or otherwise gets in your general airspace, gets a piton hammer between the eyes for its trouble. Variations on this stategy include bringing your drytooling gear, so that you can either bludgeon the dog with an ice axe, or if it jumps at you, lift your foot and put your crampon points in its face.
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djoseph
May 19, 2006, 6:03 AM
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In reply to: I've had Wolf hybrids since I was a kid, and if you spend time with them, give them a lot of love, they are very easy to train. They are also very loyal and will do anything to please you.
Just a thought on this (and cosimccragsman, feel free to comment):
Wolf-dog hybrids can be quite unpredictable. (Of course, pure dogs can be too). There are several wolf sanctuaries here in Colorado, one of which I had the pleasure of visiting. Some of the wolves at the sanctuary were hybrids which at one point had attacked children. As the sanctuary staff described it, the hybrids acted like dogs when young; then at a certain point, began acting like wolves (territorial, challenging social hierarchies, etc.).
Point is that people need to think very closely about the issues involved in owning a wolf-dog hybrid. Many vets/animal rescue orgs/etc. strongly recommend not owning them as pets.
As always, though, do your own research. But do research the needs of wolf-dog hybrids if you're thinking about getting one.
Dan
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bighigaz
May 19, 2006, 11:38 AM
Post #122 of 300
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Feel the love... I do... it's circular.
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bighigaz
May 19, 2006, 11:39 AM
Post #123 of 300
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Oops, I almost forgot:
My dog's name is Zuzu. She's alergic to corn.
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jeffd
May 19, 2006, 1:05 PM
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i laugh at people who complain about animals in the woods.
go to a gym
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corpse
May 19, 2006, 1:30 PM
Post #125 of 300
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I had a shepard-wolf hybrid for awhile.. The most absolute sweetest dog I ever had - well, except for the current dog - they are a tie. It's been "proven" that wolves truly do NOT have any sort of societal system - although this is very heavily debated in the dog world. All dogs (common household pets, wolves, coyotes) simply "resource guard" - a resource is food, water, the place they raise their pups, or the people that care for or play with them.
They are all very smart and know what it takes to protect their resources. My kids have been very active in feeding and playing with my dogs (previous hybrid, and currently a personal protection malinois), so the dogs view them as a resource of food and play.. If a dog doesn't see a child as a resource, then that dog might be more likely to bite someone.
The most common bites from dogs come from the smaller dogs, like toy poodles and schnauzers and stuff like that - granted, they might not even break skin.. Although there are exceptions (dogs that just are wired wrong) - if you take a pup and raise it well, with kindness, and the necessary training (much like a child), then you will have a dog that can be trusted in your household with kid - and I believe thats true with any dog breed. But like the perfectly raised kid, there are times and _reasons_ that can cause them to turn..
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crimpandgo
May 19, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #126 of 300
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In reply to: i laugh at people who complain about animals in the woods. go to a gym
People are not complaining about "animals" in the woods. They are complaining about Pets in the woods.
"animals" generally stay away. Its a natural instinct that keeps them alive.
"pets" however have no natural instincts and thus tend to be annoyances when not properly trained.
Except for the occasional snake, I can't remember the last time an "animal" went rummaging through my pack. i can however count numerous time an unleashed dog (pet) has done it.
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redpoint73
May 19, 2006, 4:53 PM
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In reply to: i laugh at people who complain about animals in the woods. go to a gym
Dogs don't belong in the woods. They are domesticated wolves.
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cosmiccragsman
May 19, 2006, 5:43 PM
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Djoseph wrote:
In reply to: Just a thought on this (and cosimccragsman, feel free to comment): Wolf-dog hybrids can be quite unpredictable. (Of course, pure dogs can be too).
I speak only for the hybrids I have had. As I stated before, I have had many over the years, and not one, has been mean, or psycho. I do believe, a lot of love, interaction, training shapes any animal.
Every one of mine has been lovable, very intelligent and very loyal.
You are right in one aspect though, Djoseph. Any animal can be un- predictable. I think a lot of it depends on the person raising them.
Any responsible pet owner should know the actions, of their pets,
and, if they think their pets could be a danger, or nuisance to other people,
the owners should keep them away from the people.
Cosmiccragsman
P.S. Good post Corpse, I agree.
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glowering
May 19, 2006, 6:00 PM
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In reply to: WTF does smoking being banned at the crags have to do with my post?
Hmm, how about this?
In reply to: I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your dog at home? What's so hard about leaving your dog in your backyard or asking someone else to look after your dog?" Sure, I can go somewhere else, but you can leave your dog at home.
Replace dog in that statement with smokes and... nevermind, I would explain it all to you, but it's not worth my time. Considering the hypocrisy in your statements and unjustified condescending attitude you probably wouldn't get it.
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crimpandgo
May 19, 2006, 6:34 PM
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Generally Pet behavior is a reflection of their owner behaviour.
So, it really won't matter if they leave their dog at home if you get my drift :lol: :twisted:
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erin
May 19, 2006, 6:42 PM
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We were up at the new and some dog came and peed on our pack. the owner's starting laughing like this was not a big deal at all. Needless to say, we were more than a little irritated.
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kman
May 19, 2006, 7:45 PM
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In reply to: We were up at the new and some dog came and peed on our pack. the owner's starting laughing like this was not a big deal at all. Needless to say, we were more than a little irritated.
What a fucking idiot. Go piss on his pack...then when he approaches you about it, you give him a good ass kicking.
I don't mind having dogs at the crag, but if they are going to be getting into peoples packs and getting in the way then leash them.
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cosmiccragsman
May 19, 2006, 11:22 PM
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Crimpandgo wrote:
In reply to: Generally Pet behavior is a reflection of their owner behaviour.
So true Crimp. You can watch a pets actions and know what the owner is like. The reverse is true also.
Well mannered canines, and Parrots, RULE! :D
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...TPMlWFSkkfzU5mPqFLRP
Cosmiccragsman
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epic_ed
May 20, 2006, 5:20 PM
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How 'bout if we shoot each other and just our pets roam free?
No, no -- better idea -- how 'bout if we stop making braod, sweeping generializations about stuff and act like our ideas apply equally in all situations and that you know better for me than I do for myself? Some dogs don't belong at crags. Some people don't belong at crags. Work out the details for yourself.
Ed
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mowz
May 20, 2006, 5:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: WTF does smoking being banned at the crags have to do with my post? Hmm, how about this? In reply to: I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your dog at home? What's so hard about leaving your dog in your backyard or asking someone else to look after your dog?" Sure, I can go somewhere else, but you can leave your dog at home. Replace dog in that statement with smokes and... nevermind, I would explain it all to you, but it's not worth my time. Considering the hypocrisy in your statements and unjustified condescending attitude you probably wouldn't get it.
What?! I never mentioned that smoking should be banned at the crags. Prove to me that I said it and I'll eat my words. I stated that the whole "smokers' rights vs. non-smokers' rights" arguement is comparable to the "those who don't like dogs at the crag vs. those who bring dogs to the crag" arguement. Where in the fuck did I ever say that banning smoking at the crag is comparable, or has anything to do with, people leaving their dogs at home?
Unjustified attitude? If you learned how to extrapolate context, maybe I wouldn't be so fed up with people like you who mis-quote and shoot off with out thinking about what was stated.
And why would anyone replace "dogs" with "smoking"? Are you just trying to get my goat? If you replaced "pasta" with "cocaine", then many people would be high so does that mean pasta was compared to cocaine? Don't get what I just said? Doesn't make sense? That's EXACTLY what your post reads like.
Sorry. I'm a bit pissed. In a previous response, you said "according to the post above, smoking . . . blah, blah, blah." You did nothing to prove your point. You make an accusation and now you have to back it up. I'm asking you: back it up.
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thomasribiere
May 20, 2006, 5:54 PM
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In reply to: then at a certain point, began acting like wolves (territorial, challenging social hierarchies, etc.).
djoseph, dogs do exactly the same... go read some dog behavior books.
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thomasribiere
May 20, 2006, 5:57 PM
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In reply to: Generally Pet behavior is a reflection of their owner behaviour. |
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franko
May 20, 2006, 7:42 PM
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In reply to: Remember people: If your dog is not a well behaved expensive, papered and pedigreed breed then leave the mangy mut at home. I will kick that mongrel right under the chops if it comes sniffin around me. I am a pedigreed dog snob and I hate muts ; especially the mangy ones with bandanas around their stupid necks. If your dog looks like you found it or bought it for a measly 50 bucks at the pound right before they euthanized it then keep it at home. Carry On, Jefro
Please do kick my mutt punk. I'd love an excuse to smash your ugly face.
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majid_sabet
May 20, 2006, 9:14 PM
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ihategrigris
You are absolutely right and have a very solid point, I got this friend who has this pit bull called Diff eater guarding a yard, poor pit bull eats engine parts all the long in the junkyard, my friend wants you to come down here and meet this Diff eater, poor dog has't had any human meat in long time.
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treez
May 21, 2006, 7:48 PM
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Thanks Cragsman! There was heavy smoke from fires in BC that day. It created a very eerie feeling and some cool photos.
I'm trying to piss off the dog hater. :wink:
http://img414.imageshack.us/...06/glacierdog3vk.png
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weschrist
May 21, 2006, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: People are not complaining about "animals" in the woods. I can't remember the last time an "animal" went rummaging through my pack.
You don't climb much in Yosemite, the Sierras, or the Wind Rivers do you? Plenty of people complain about "animals" in the woods. And if they complain enough the powers that be shoot the animals.
I have had one pack swiped by a bear, 3 packs ruined by squirrels who took my lunch (which hasn't happened since I got my dog!), and only one case where a dog took 1/2 of my lunch. I also know 2 friends who had their doors ripped off by bears plus the $200 (?) ticket from the tool.
It boils down to the fact that you are outside... fucking stop bitching and deal with it! How is it any different when a squirrel takes your lunch than a dog? It is still YOUR fault for not protecting YOUR shit.
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weschrist
May 21, 2006, 8:58 PM
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In reply to: I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your dog at home? What's so hard about leaving your dog in your backyard or asking someone else to look after your dog?" Sure, I can go somewhere else, but you can leave your dog at home.
In reply to: What?! I never mentioned that smoking should be banned at the crags. Prove to me that I said it and I'll eat my words. I stated that the whole "smokers' rights vs. non-smokers' rights" arguement is comparable to the "those who don't like dogs at the crag vs. those who bring dogs to the crag" arguement.
I think his point was for you to re-read your own post and pay attention to the fact that you are asking people do change their behavior to suit your desires... it would read something like this:
In reply to: I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your CIGS at home? What's so hard about leaving your CIGS [wherever the fuck you want to leave them]. Sure, I can go somewhere else (stand upwind maybe), but you can leave your fucking stinky CIGS at home and stop ruining my climbing experience.
btw, dogs dont' cause cancer...
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mowz
May 21, 2006, 9:46 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your dog at home? What's so hard about leaving your dog in your backyard or asking someone else to look after your dog?" Sure, I can go somewhere else, but you can leave your dog at home. In reply to: What?! I never mentioned that smoking should be banned at the crags. Prove to me that I said it and I'll eat my words. I stated that the whole "smokers' rights vs. non-smokers' rights" arguement is comparable to the "those who don't like dogs at the crag vs. those who bring dogs to the crag" arguement. I think his point was for you to re-read your own post and pay attention to the fact that you are asking people do change their behavior to suit your desires... it would read something like this: In reply to: I ask you, "What's so hard about leaving your CIGS at home? What's so hard about leaving your CIGS [wherever the f--- you want to leave them]. Sure, I can go somewhere else (stand upwind maybe), but you can leave your f---ing stinky CIGS at home and stop ruining my climbing experience. btw, dogs dont' cause cancer...
I'm gald you're smart enough to realize that dogs don't cause cancer. However, I am disappointed in you because you fail to grasp the fact that I am only asking people to consider both sides of an issue, whether it be smoking or dogs.
At no point did I ever talk about smoking at the crag.
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weschrist
May 21, 2006, 10:46 PM
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In reply to: This is a perfect analogy: smoking vs. non-smoking.
Not really. The smoking issue is different because studies have objectively shown that 2nd hand smoke from ALL cigs cause cancer. Therefore, smoking cigs in confined public places should be banned.
There are no studies that objectively show being around dogs causes any kind of adverse health affect at all. In fact, some studies actually show being around dogs is beneficial to your health. You are comparing a situation in which one person's actions (smoking) adversely affects other people's health, to one in which only sometimes creates a mild inconvenience for some people.
Furthermore, you are a moron.
In reply to: What about those who don't smoke and those who don't want the second-hand cancer that your cancer stick is expelling? What about the rights of non-smokers who have to right to breathe clean cancer-free air? What about the rights of those who don't like dogs? They get no say on who is around their space?
bold added to illuminate your ridiculous comparison of adverse and permanent health affects to an opinion or preference.
In reply to: I have never met a dog that has kept completely silent, not gotten in my way, or just not been a nuisance for those around it.
The same can be said for every human I have ever met... it is called life, fucking deal with it.
In reply to: You pro-bring-your-dog-to-the-crag-people don't think about the fact that there are those who just don't like dogs.
And you pro-continue-to-exist-and-be-a-fucking-moron people don't think about the fact that I want you all dead.
In reply to: You ask us, "What so hard about moving to another area? What's so hard about putting up with it? What's so hard about accepting the fact that there are going to be dogs?"
No, I don't ask you any of that. I simply say, "this is me, enjoying my time climbing and my dog has come along because he enjoys it and I said so. If my dog does something that pisses you off simply remember that you do shit that pisses me off (like breathe). Deal with it. If it involves violence toward me or my dog, you can expect the same in return. If you are a reasonable person and want to discuss a compromise I'm sure we can work something out."
In reply to: What's so hard about leaving your dog at home?
It isn't hard, but it sucks. Why don't YOU stay home? You are the one with the problem. It is a serious question and I mean it in all honesty. If you can't deal with the world and all the challenges and difference you will experience there... STAY THE FUCK HOME.
In reply to: Me? I don't like dogs. Why? I've had bad experiences.
Me? I don't like YOU. Why? Because you had bad experiences and don't have the life skills to get over them and deal with it and instead expect others to change their behavior to suit your desires.
In reply to: I'll get over it when you leave your animals at home.
No you won't, because you are a pathetic whiny bitch. If it isn't dogs you will find something else to hate. I know because the only difference between people like you and reasonable human beings who can deal with life is that we have learned to either deal with the things we dislike or avoid them.
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climbsomething
May 22, 2006, 3:32 AM
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Treez and cosmic et. al., I am cracking up at your approach to the dog-bashers.
That black dog looks huger than huge.
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chitowngirl
May 22, 2006, 3:39 AM
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oh, adorable!
Simple people, take your dogs if ya like, keep em under control for the wussies who are scared of em, k?
And I am so sick of people raggin' on pit bulls. Breedism, I tell you! Resist breedism.
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weschrist
May 22, 2006, 3:52 AM
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In reply to: And I am so sick of people raggin' on pit bulls.
I had mixed feelings about bringing them into this. I like 99% of the Pits and Pit mixes I have met. But if some lame ass sissy is going to go around kicking dogs I would rather see them try it with a Pit Bull than a lab. Maybe try kicking a Chow... they are very passive and timid.
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climbsomething
May 22, 2006, 4:02 AM
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(not my dog, but I wish he were)
Somebody PLEASE kick this pit. Please. Not because he's a bad dog but because I have bloodlust and would just love to see the beatdown his owner would administer in return.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=67373
That's a cute birdin' dog, Wes.
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chitowngirl
May 22, 2006, 4:10 AM
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aww, he looks like a sweetie!
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weschrist
May 22, 2006, 4:13 AM
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In reply to: That's a cute birdin' dog, Wes.
He's a squirrelin dawg these days. btw, I believe you two have met yes?
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climbsomething
May 22, 2006, 4:16 AM
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I've seen him zipping around BVB's yard. He may have sniffed my butt at some point.
My dog loves her some Flagstaff squirrels too. I don't let her catch them, but she sure loves to try.
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weschrist
May 22, 2006, 4:25 AM
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In reply to: He may have sniffed my butt at some point.
Good boy. I taught him everything he knows.
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cosmiccragsman
May 22, 2006, 4:54 AM
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Climbsomething Wrote:
In reply to: Treez and cosmic et. al., I am cracking up at your approach to the dog-bashers.
How can anyone hate the cute, adorable, pics of the companions
posted on this forum??? :shock: :D
Cosmiccragsman
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reno
May 22, 2006, 5:10 AM
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General thoughts:
1. No such thing as a bad dog... just bad owners.
2. Lots of folks do not know how to behave around dogs, and this can result in a bite. Learn how to show the dog who the REAL alpha is.
3. I've got the best crag dog ever... (mucho thanks to Climbsomething for the photo.)
http://img106.imageshack.us/.../9745/casey108ux.jpg
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treez
May 22, 2006, 5:12 AM
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In reply to: Treez and cosmic et. al., I am cracking up at your approach to the dog-bashers.
They're just lucky I don't have a scanner to delve into my pre-digital days. :wink:
In reply to: That black dog looks huger than huge.
The worst part is he can't jump into my big van anymore. It's hard on the back.
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mowz
May 22, 2006, 5:19 AM
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Your argument of health effects and such is not valid. If someone gets bitten by a dog, you can safely say it will cause no permanent damage? I guess your dog has no teeth that can puncture skin. That's one amazing dog.
Blaming others for your dog's misbehavior is also not quite right. If your dog is bothering someone, it means that the dog was bothered first? Bullshit. I guess your dog just always sits there quietly and doesn't go snooping around nor does it ever go around causing other dogs to bark. Great. Again, your dog is amazing.
And you can't compare dogs to humans. Humans are annoying (I know I'm a shit) because I truly believe we have souls that give us personality. As far as dogs go, they just act according to either learned behavior or instinct; no soul, no personality, no emotion. It's that learned behavior and instinct that causes the dog problems that people have to put up with, but that's a totally different topic.
And what does life skills have to do with getting over past experiences? You don't get over them, you use them and behave according to what you have and haven't experienced and maybe you adapt them to what you already know about life. It's not about getting over them but about how you've adapted. Are you now going to tell a rape victim to "get over it"? And if s/he is permanently distraught by it, you'll say the person has no life skills? I wouldn't. I am not comparing a bad dog experience to rape. I'm simply arguing your comparison of getting over a bad experience to the possession of life skills.
Blaming me for wishing others to suit my desires is calling the kettle black. You're asking those who are opposed to dogs at the crag to put up with dogs at the crag, more precisely your dog.
And I don't hate dogs; I dislike them. Me getting over dogs at the crag has nothing to with hatred. Nowhere have I ever said I hated dogs. Hatred and dislike are two very different animals.
For what it's worth, the only reason I called you shitforbrains is because you called me a dork. It's immature and I own up to it. So why are you now calling me a bitch and a moron and other names that your "weekend daddies" call your mother?
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treez
May 22, 2006, 5:30 AM
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In reply to: As far as dogs go, they just act according to either learned behavior or instinct; no soul, no personality, no emotion.
I beg to differ.
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mowz
May 22, 2006, 5:31 AM
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That's you, but I'll not argue this one here. If you want, start another thread and I'll debate with you.
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treez
May 22, 2006, 5:51 AM
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No need to argue. I know from life experience that I'm right.
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kman
May 22, 2006, 6:31 AM
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In reply to: no personality, no emotion.
:roll: Way to completely discredit your opinions in the eyes of dog owners or any one else that has ever spent any time with a dog. Man, what a stupid stupid thing to say.
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weschrist
May 22, 2006, 2:04 PM
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In reply to: Your argument of health effects and such is not valid. If someone gets bitten by a dog, you can safely say it will cause no permanent damage?
If someone gets hit on the head by a #3 camalot should we ask all trad climbers everywhere to stop bringing their #3's?
You are an idiot. You are comparing proven health risks from 2nd hand smoke to hypothetical situations based on your bias. Of course none of us expect you to be able to realize this.
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weschrist
May 22, 2006, 2:17 PM
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In reply to: Blaming others for your dog's misbehavior is also not quite right.
The point is, I'm not blaming my dog's behavior on anyone because my dog (and many many others) don't misbehave. Sure, they may bother you... but you should realize, you bother me.
In reply to: because I truly believe we have souls that give us personality. As far as dogs go, they just act according to either learned behavior or instinct; no soul, no personality, no emotion.
you are an idiot
In reply to: Are you now going to tell a rape victim to "get over it"?
I know some who have and some who haven't. The ones who have are great people and great to hang out with and I have much respect for them. The ones who haven't have an unmanageable amount of hate in their "souls" and are a pain in the ass to hang out with... much like you I'm sure.
In reply to: You're asking those who are opposed to dogs at the crag to put up with dogs at the crag, more precisely your dog.
Nope, I'm asking them to act like mature adults and tell ME if they have a problem with MY dog. And if they have a problem with any other dog I will be more than happy to help out a fellow dog owner to make everyone's experience, including the dog's, as enjoyable as possible.
In reply to: For what it's worth, the only reason I called you s--- is because you called me a dork.
Retaliation... the mark of a mature, well adjusted person.
In reply to: b---- and a moron and other names that your "weekend daddies" call your mother?
Oh, wow, the last time someone tried to insult me by bringing my mom into an argument was when I was 13 years old.
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sentinel
May 22, 2006, 11:10 PM
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This thread has gone beyond pathetic.
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cosmiccragsman
May 23, 2006, 12:39 AM
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Sentinel Wrote:
In reply to: This thread has gone beyond pathetic
Yes! But the pet pics have been awesome. :D
cosmiccragsman
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colotopian
May 23, 2006, 3:31 AM
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Sentinel has moved this thread to Pathetic. :lol:
In reply to: This thread has gone beyond pathetic. |
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spunkyjr2
May 23, 2006, 3:46 AM
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In reply to: RE: Perfect analogy People can bring dogs to the crags as long as they don't invade other people's space and they pick up the poo. If someone doesn't live up to their responsibilities address them, don't try to ban it altogether. Duh.
There are things called tree trolleys that you can put around a tree for a dog. So I would def take him to some other bluff and tie him to a tree out of the way.
http://photos-283.facebook.com/...615_30040283_167.jpg
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spunkyjr2
May 23, 2006, 4:18 AM
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I love the silver in your dogs.. Mine is brown and black with a grey beard
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themightyjimbo
May 23, 2006, 5:20 AM
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personally, i hate it when people bring llamas to the crag.
really can't trust those llamas.
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jeffd
May 23, 2006, 1:42 PM
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do you people feel that a dog never has the right to roam free?
do you think they should be tied up for their entire existance?
were talking about the damn wilderness here. do you want to ban the bugs or how about the rain? the outdoors are full of annoyances. i can see if a particular dog is being a nusance go talk to the owner! but dont expect to go out there and never be bothered, thats just not going to happen dogs or no dogs. your presence is just as irratating to me as my dog is to you.
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rockguide
May 23, 2006, 2:22 PM
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Let us not go to false dichotomies where dogs are either always permitted to go free or never permitted to go free. Dogs have to roam free sometimes. And there are places where they shouldn't run free because they can not handle it.
It is the owner's responsibility to take the dog places where it can run free (which may be inconvenient for the owner because it may be non-climbing time) and to realize when the dog cannot handle the responsibility of running free. And this varies from dog to dog.
I like dogs, though I have never had one as a companion. I really like good crag dogs that stay mellow, stay near their owner, and do not chase wildlife, do not eat people's lunches, scramble on/piss on people's ropes. There are a lot of them.
There are also crag dogs that do the above things - and worse - bark and snap at people. This may not be real danger (the owner always tells me -"don't worry, he/she doesn't bite") but it is threatening and unpleasant. Kinda like someone chucking rocks near you saying,"don't worry, I am not trying to hit you".
It is up to the dog owner to recognize what type of dog they have and to act accordingly. There is a continuum of response from show up with the dog unleashed, to tightly manage the dog (and take more time out of the owner's busy schedule to let the dog run free at a proper location) to leaving the dog at home.
Some dog owners are realistic about what responsibility their dog can handle, some are deluded, and few are willing to take feedback from others.
For the pic posters - some lovely pictures of dogs; I hope to be properly introduced to some of them some day and give them a scratch behind the ears.
Brian
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weschrist
May 23, 2006, 2:28 PM
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In reply to: For the pic posters - some lovely pictures of dogs; I hope to be properly introduced to some of them some day and give them a scratch behind the ears.
Willie, the cutest one of the bunch, will be running free... chasing squirrels and killing the soft cute bunny rabbits.
http://f3.yahoofs.com/...jpg?phgHycEBB3uHQg_P
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granite_grrl
May 23, 2006, 2:39 PM
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excellent post rockguide. I actually like dogs, I really do. But many just aren't well behaved enough to be at a crag and not bother people. A person hooting and hollering at the base of the cliff is just as annoying as a barking dog if I'm trying to concentrate on that red point, but 90% of the time its the dogs making the noise, not people.
Ironically if you go ask the people to quiet down they usually will, try asking a dog owner and watch their reaction that their perfect pup could be bothering anyone. You already see the reaction of these people on this thread....dogs deserve to run free, they should not be tied up for thier entire exsistance, my dog doesn't misbehave, etc. Its worse than trying to convince parents that thier children are misbehaving and shouldn't be throwing rocks from the top of the cliff.
Owning a dog isn't a right. People have to realize how much work it is to train a dog right, and that if you choose to bring them to public areas they should be trained properly. Otherwise leave them at home until you've actually put in the time and effort with them.
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rockguide
May 23, 2006, 2:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: For the pic posters - some lovely pictures of dogs; I hope to be properly introduced to some of them some day and give them a scratch behind the ears. Willie, the cutest one of the bunch, will be running free... chasing squirrels and killing the soft cute bunny rabbits. http://f3.yahoofs.com/...jpg?phgHycEBB3uHQg_P
Will he bring the dead bunnies back to us so we can cook them up? Those are seriously good eating!
Brian :lol:
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weschrist
May 23, 2006, 2:53 PM
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In reply to: Will he bring the dead bunnies back to us so we can cook them up? Those are seriously good eating! Brian :lol:
Absolutely. He even delivers then pre-tenderized.
Oh, and watch out, he likes to leave the mice right outside the camper door!
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spunkyjr2
May 23, 2006, 3:06 PM
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If I let my dog roam free while climbing he would constantly be in the way, laying on your rope. He is old and doesn't care to much about chasing wild things but a random squirel or rabbit. He's much more content laying next to you(in your way). He would be much better tied to a tree with a long cord and still in sight. For some reason my pic disappered?? Anyone know why?
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mbez
May 23, 2006, 3:14 PM
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At the Gunks this past weekend we were walking the base past Two Pines or something and came across a vibrating dog. The poor white with brown spots lab mix was tied to a tree with water, gazing sadly up the wall. It's owners had taken off on a multi-pitch climb, leaving the slightly portly pooch at the bottom. Unfortunately, the dog was frickin' miserable. He was whimpering and shaking really hard out of anxiety due to being left alone.
After a while it started to rain. Some nearby climbers tied a jacket around the pup before they left. He then began to mournfully bark for attention. I went over and did my best to help the poor guy. The rain got bad so we left, with the dog's owners nowhere to be seen.
I agree, it's the owners. They probably came back in the rain and saw their dog joyfully greeting them, unaware of the misery they imposed on their dog. Maybe they thought that because their dog doesn't bark too much or bother other dogs, so what's the problem?
What to do? Leave a note? Ask the owners if they knew how miserable their dog was? Remind them that the Mohonk Preserve rules say not to leave dogs unattended on multi-pitch climbs? Do nothing but post about it on RC.com?
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bluering
May 23, 2006, 3:33 PM
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In reply to: At the Gunks this past weekend we were walking the base past Two Pines or something and came across a vibrating dog. The poor white with brown spots lab mix was tied to a tree with water, gazing sadly up the wall. It's owners had taken off on a multi-pitch climb, leaving the slightly portly pooch at the bottom. Unfortunately, the dog was frickin' miserable. He was whimpering and shaking really hard out of anxiety due to being left alone. After a while it started to rain. Some nearby climbers tied a jacket around the pup before they left. He then began to mournfully bark for attention. I went over and did my best to help the poor guy. The rain got bad so we left, with the dog's owners nowhere to be seen. I agree, it's the owners. They probably came back in the rain and saw their dog joyfully greeting them, unaware of the misery they imposed on their dog. Maybe they thought that because their dog doesn't bark too much or bother other dogs, so what's the problem? What to do? Leave a note? Ask the owners if they knew how miserable their dog was? Remind them that the Mohonk Preserve rules say not to leave dogs unattended on multi-pitch climbs? Do nothing but post about it on RC.com?
That's a freakin' shame!!!! If you were really concerned (I would have been) you should have waited for, or found, the owners and politely described to them your concerns that the dog was trembling miserably. They may have been unaware of the dog's anxiety like you said. But they may think twice next time based on your concerns. That was nice of you to do what you did for the dog.
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therealbovine
May 23, 2006, 5:33 PM
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Here is what can happen (worst case scenario) if someone does not like your dog when you are out climbing. My dog was shot twice with bird shot while climbing here in Missouri. He has made a full recovery. He was always a chill guy and never barked or bothered anyone. This day he had wondered off into the woods to check out a noise. I heard two shots and ran in after him. I never cought the shooter. This photo was taken about a week after the event.
http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/62/cody0cy.jpg
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crimpandgo
May 23, 2006, 6:49 PM
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In reply to: do you people feel that a dog never has the right to roam free? do you think they should be tied up for their entire existance? were talking about the damn wilderness here. do you want to ban the bugs or how about the rain? the outdoors are full of annoyances. i can see if a particular dog is being a nusance go talk to the owner! but dont expect to go out there and never be bothered, thats just not going to happen dogs or no dogs. your presence is just as irratating to me as my dog is to you.
Dogs are not part of the "wilderness". They are domesticated animals and do not act the same as wild animals. If they did they probably wouldn't be bothering other climbers. They would be hiding and keeping to themselves like most wild animals.
There is a reason why most cities/states have leash laws you know.
honestly, like everything else in our society, most owners raise pretty responsible, well behaved pets. Its the few bad ones that most people remember in a negative light.
Climbing areas are not necessarily "wilderness" areas. Many are confined areas with a large number of climbs in a small amount of area with LOTS of people. A bunch of dogs just add to the congestion. The conditions most likely stress the animal out because they can't roam free as you would obviously like them to.
My suggestion to you is, if you want your dog to roam free in the wilderness, then find some wilderness and let them roam. Don't bring them to the already overcrowded crag areas unless you can control their behavior.
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climbsomething
May 24, 2006, 9:55 AM
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In reply to: Ironically if you go ask the people to quiet down they usually will, try asking a dog owner and watch their reaction that their perfect pup could be bothering anyone. You already see the reaction of these people on this thread....dogs deserve to run free, they should not be tied up for thier entire exsistance, my dog doesn't misbehave, etc. Its worse than trying to convince parents that thier children are misbehaving and shouldn't be throwing rocks from the top of the cliff.
When my dog and I were younger and dumber, I was lax with my dog discipline. In hindsight, I am very embarrassed that my dog occasionally caused trouble for people by wrestling with other dogs, stealing shoes and food at camp, barking, etc. I was a kid, my dog was a pup, and I was also a novice climber with little concept of crag etiquette. I had no idea that my dog was such a pain in the ass and needed to be on a leash. I thought it was too cute that she was having a grand old time (and she was, but at the expense of others). I figured it out though, with a few rueful apologies as needed, but not nearly enough.
Why not enough? Because people would rather mew online about how much dogs at the crags suck, or how much their owners must be righteous, clueless jerks, than just going right up to the owner and telling them there was a problem.
I would have very much appreciated if more people had told me (in an appropriate manner) that my dog was being a shit. I think I got about 3 stinkeyes from people about my puppy and looking back, we collectively earned a whole lot more than that.
After I snapped, I left my dog at home or with my mom for years. When I do bring Tilly out, it's leashed and anchored now, and certainly not every trip- I consider trips a "treat" for her, and I would much rather she go to my folks' acreage with their pack of hounds to play with. Still, I do enjoy the occasional outing with my dog.
Tils is more relaxed these days, and I'm much more aware, but still, she's a dog. We're rational adult humans. If she makes a move on your dog, begs for your jerky, is in the way of your belay stance, frightens your girlfriend or kid, barks too loud, pinches a loaf where you wanted to sit, by all means, tell me at the time. I love my dog but not everybody does. We'll work something out.
http://files.dogster.com/...25982_1132647805.jpg
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climbsomething
May 24, 2006, 10:01 AM
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In reply to: Here is what can happen (worst case scenario) if someone does not like your dog when you are out climbing. My dog was shot twice with bird shot while climbing here in Missouri. He has made a full recovery. He was always a chill guy and never barked or bothered anyone. This day he had wondered off into the woods to check out a noise. I heard two shots and ran in after him. I never cought the shooter. This photo was taken about a week after the event. http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/62/cody0cy.jpg
What a sweet, sad face. I would have been just this side of hysterical if somebody shot my dog, thinking it was game, or worse, *knowing* it was a dog.
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deltav
May 24, 2006, 12:08 PM
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I have seen many of perfectly well trained crag dogs, I agree, it is the dumbass owners
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unabonger
May 24, 2006, 12:17 PM
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In reply to: Here is what can happen (worst case scenario) if someone does not like your dog when you are out climbing.
Funny--I would have said "Here is what can happen if someone leaves there dog off leash to wander off into the woods".
I hope your dog recovers fully.
And hillary, right on. It's a lot easier to say something here than at the crag. Last time I suggested to someone at the crage that they leash their giant, aggressive dog, they (a party of 6 or so) all jumped in "Oh he's a very nice dog" as if that was somehow relevant when he was barking and charging others.
I didn't push it farther but next time I'll try to kindly make my concerns clear.
UB
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granite_grrl
May 24, 2006, 12:56 PM
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You're right climbsomething, just because I've seen many people who don't want to hear their dog is irritating doesn't make it an excuse not to say something. In fact with a problem dog if everyone who had a problem went up to the owner and said what they were thinking (in a construtive way!) the owner might understand that not every one appreciates their dog the way they do.
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artm
May 24, 2006, 3:35 PM
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http://files.dogster.com/...25982_1132647805.jpg
If it wasn't for your dog (and Alex) you'd turn into a Crraaazzzeee Cat lady. So it's a good thing you've got her (and Alex).
p.s. when are you two gonna come out and visit Cali again?
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weschrist
Jun 3, 2006, 6:28 AM
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worst come on ever
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cosmiccragsman
Jun 3, 2006, 7:20 AM
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Weschrist wrote:
In reply to: I'm one of the coolest (and best looking) guys I know
Sadly, Wes, my flirting days are long gone.
I'm a 52 year old ugly geezer, so I don't even bother any more. :)
Climbsomething's Husky is beautiful, and, I do love Huskies and wolf mixes
http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/...CifosIBJ6PzlnLBICvL4
Hey Wes, I have relatives who live in S.L.T., and I get up there once or twice a year. Maybe we can hook up in the future and do some climbing at Lovers Leap or 90 ft wall. When I go up there, I always hit those areas.
L.L is a great place to climb. I've climbed up there almost every year,
since the early 80s and have never gotten tired of the area.
Cosmiccragsman
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weschrist
Jun 4, 2006, 2:13 AM
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In reply to: Weschrist wrote: In reply to: I'm one of the coolest (and best looking) guys I know And this, is a good come-on line??? :lol:
Seems to work fine for me.
BTW, I was talking about your buddy... "hey, cragsman, tell that girl that I think her little friend is hot...."
In reply to: Hey Wes, I have relatives who live in S.L.T., and I get up there once or twice a year.
I should be here. Drop me a line.
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cosmiccragsman
Jun 4, 2006, 4:09 AM
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Ok Wes;
I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about me :) But, yeah, my hybrid Glacier is horny all the time :lol: Not so horny that he goes and humps everyones' leg. :lol: I've been looking for a good female husky to mate him with. :)
Sounds good about hooking up at L.L.. I'll give you a pm before I head up there again. I haven't done Hospital Corner in a few years, and I would really like to hit that one again, and a few other classics.
Have you ever done, Labor of Love, on the East Wall?
If we do get to climb together, I won't bring Glacier, because of the multi-pitch's. :D
If I still had my hybrid, Bear, who passed a few years ago, I'd have brought him, because he would have just gone up, and around and met us at the top. :D
Cosmiccragsman
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badsanta
Jun 4, 2006, 8:21 AM
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Dog owners treat pets like kids who are never to be trained or disciplined. Ie their pets are people to them and more important then non family members. Bringing a dog to the crags is selfish and neglectful of the dog, because the dog is bored, hot and forced to lie in one place while the owner has fun.
Dog owners expect the whole climbing community to adopt their pet, like parents with screaming unruly brats expect others to love their offspring, and smokers expect non smokers to love cig buts and smoke.
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badsanta
Jun 4, 2006, 8:44 AM
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In reply to: I will bring my dog to the crag if I want to, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. (except cry some more) |
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thisflash
Jun 4, 2006, 3:15 PM
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In reply to: Plenty of people complain about "animals" in the woods. And if they complain enough the powers that be shoot the animals.
So if I complain enough, I can get a ranger to shoot your dog? Or are you making a distinction between animals and dogs? I can see why you might do that because from the looks of it, you have some strange obsession with your dog.
In reply to: It boils down to the fact that you are outside... f---ing stop b---- and deal with it! How is it any different when a squirrel takes your lunch than a dog? It is still YOUR fault for not protecting YOUR s---.
It's different because a dog can be trained to stay out of other people's packs. Or better yet, left at home. I think I'll tell the next person whose dog gets into my stuff to just "deal with it" after their dog gets kicked in the throat.
People and their f**king dogs...
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weschrist
Jun 5, 2006, 2:29 AM
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In reply to: I haven't done Hospital Corner in a few years
Never done Hospital Corner. Should be doing it pretty soon.
In reply to: Have you ever done, Labor of Love, on the East Wall?
Just the first pitch... just this side of concerning... but what a blast!
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weschrist
Jun 5, 2006, 2:36 AM
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In reply to: Dog owners treat pets like kids who are never to be trained or disciplined. Ie their pets are people to them and more important then non family members. Bringing a dog to the crags is selfish and neglectful of the dog, because the dog is bored, hot and forced to lie in one place while the owner has fun. Dog owners expect the whole climbing community to adopt their pet, like parents with screaming unruly brats expect others to love their offspring, and smokers expect non smokers to love cig buts and smoke.
You are a fucking moron.
1) My dog is not a kid and is no more important than any other living creature who deserves the pursuit of happiness base solely on the fact that he exists.
2) Bringing my dog to the crag is the best thing I can do for him. He stays entertained with the lizards or chipmonks, stays cool by laying in the river, and if by one place you mean within a 5 mile radius... then yeah, I'm guilty.
3) I don't expect anyone to adopt my pet. In fact, leave Willie alone, he can take care of himself. If he wants to say hi to you, he will. If you are an asshole (which you are), he won't want to say hi to you so nobody will have any problems.
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weschrist
Jun 5, 2006, 2:37 AM
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In reply to: Dog owners treat pets like kids who are never to be trained or disciplined. Ie their pets are people to them and more important then non family members. Bringing a dog to the crags is selfish and neglectful of the dog, because the dog is bored, hot and forced to lie in one place while the owner has fun. Dog owners expect the whole climbing community to adopt their pet, like parents with screaming unruly brats expect others to love their offspring, and smokers expect non smokers to love cig buts and smoke.
You are a fucking moron.
1) My dog is not a kid and is no more important than any other living creature who deserves the pursuit of happiness base solely on the fact that he exists.
2) Bringing my dog to the crag is the best thing I can do for him. He stays entertained with the lizards or chipmonks, stays cool by laying in the river, and if by one place you mean within a 5 mile radius... then yeah, I'm guilty.
3) I don't expect anyone to adopt my pet. In fact, leave Willie alone, he can take care of himself. If he wants to say hi to you, he will. If you are an asshole (which you are), he won't want to say hi to you so nobody will have any problems.
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themightyjimbo
Jun 5, 2006, 4:10 AM
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No.
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weschrist
Jun 5, 2006, 4:24 AM
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In reply to: I think I'll tell the next person whose dog gets into my stuff to just "deal with it" after their dog gets kicked in the throat.
Oh GOD I wish I still lived in SLC and you tried that shit! Tough guy hiding behind an aliass.
Seriously, kicking a dog in the troat for a fucking sammich? You fucking pussy!
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secretninja
Jun 5, 2006, 5:20 AM
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[quote="weschrist"]In reply to: You are a f---ing moron. 1) My dog is not a kid and is no more important than any other living creature who deserves the pursuit of happiness base solely on the fact that he exists. 2) Bringing my dog to the crag is the best thing I can do for him. He stays entertained with the lizards or chipmonks, stays cool by laying in the river, and if by one place you mean within a 5 mile radius... then yeah, I'm guilty.
As a dog owner, i understand your desire bring out your dog to the crag on what you view as a nice afternoon in the sun. Which is your business if your dog is tied up or otherwise restrained. However, after being approached by a loose dog as wasooch slabs last season and being bitten in the calf (hard enough to draw blood) without provocation, you have to understand why some people might go on the offensive rather than be nipped. By the way, i was also belaying at the time, so should the climber up the route taken a whipper, i couldn't have said for sure i would have them. The owner claimed that it was the first incident, and with an animal, here is no guarantees. All i have to say is that if you do bring your dog, keep him tied, or don't bring him at all.
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fanfoui
Jun 5, 2006, 8:30 AM
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I don't mind if you bring your dog to the crag...as long as it's dead
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fanfoui
Jun 5, 2006, 8:31 AM
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I don't mind if you bring your dog to the crag...as long as it's dead :twisted:
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clee03m
Jun 5, 2006, 12:40 PM
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So what happened with the bite? I have three dogs and they are like my babies, but as I understand, the animal has to be sacrificed to ensure that they don't have rabies. Did you take the owner's word that the dog had vaccinations? Wow, just reading about this dog bite really makes me shudder to think what would happen to both the victom and the dog.
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csproul
Jun 5, 2006, 12:59 PM
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Went to the crag this weekend and there were at least five dogs running around...and guess what, they were all great. I played with a couple of them, petted all of them. They had fun, I had fun. Thanks to whoever brought their dogs to Moore's (NC) this weekend, I enjoyed them.
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phazed
Jun 5, 2006, 2:00 PM
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In reply to: Tough guy hiding behind an aliass.
You're doing the same thing :roll:
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colkurtz
Jun 5, 2006, 2:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Tough guy hiding behind an aliass. You're doing the same thing :roll:
uh, he's not threatening a dog. dumbass.
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devils_advocate
Jun 5, 2006, 4:09 PM
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In reply to: ...but as I understand, the animal has to be sacrificed to ensure that they don't have rabies.
Huh?
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phazed
Jun 5, 2006, 4:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Tough guy hiding behind an aliass. You're doing the same thing :roll: uh, he's not threatening a dog. dumbass.
no but hes threatining the guy if something were to happen to his dog
dare I add "dumbass" to the end of this?
no...I wont sink to your level :roll:
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colkurtz
Jun 5, 2006, 5:02 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Tough guy hiding behind an aliass. You're doing the same thing :roll: uh, he's not threatening a dog. dumbass. no but hes threatining the guy if something were to happen to his dog dare I add "dumbass" to the end of this? no...I wont sink to your level :roll:
Ok mr. nu school.
Get this. He wasn’t threatening him.
And yo, yo check it,
People who don’t like dogs, or are scared of them, are seriously in need of help.
dumbass
Dog owners who don’t teach their dogs to socialize appropriately with humans or who neglect their dog(s), are in need of owners themselves.
People who complain about others who treat their dogs as people are, likely, jealous.
dumbass
I am, actually, envious, in many respects, of my dog.
I have stood between rock throwers and dogs (not my own). People who think it is ok to hurt living beings should know that there are people who will stop them.
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flatstateclimber
Jun 5, 2006, 5:48 PM
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Last weekend, I was in Tennessee climbing. Seems like everyone had their dogs with them. All of them were friendly with people. All but 2 of them were not friendly with other dogs. Saturday morning, they picked a fight (they were off-leash of course) with one black lab. Snarling and clawing, I'm belaying. Certainly distracted all the climbers within earshot. Owner was belaying. Didn't have much of a care, didn't apologize for it.
So for the rest of the weekend, I spent time warning the conscientious dog-owners about that pair and their aggressive streak. If you know your dog is aggressive with other dogs, leave the mutt at home, especially on a busy weekend at a popular crag.
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clee03m
Jun 5, 2006, 6:20 PM
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If bitten by rabid dog, you have to be treated right away, and the only way to ensure a dog does not have rabies is to do an autopsy of it's brain. Another incentive to leave aggresive dogs at home (I guess unless you want to carry their vaccination records with you).
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phazed
Jun 5, 2006, 7:37 PM
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In reply to: Ok mr. nu school. Get this. He wasn’t threatening him. And yo, yo check it
Get this. He was threatining him.
Its funny watching people get angry over the internet. :lol:
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andrew_i
Jun 5, 2006, 7:47 PM
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In reply to: If bitten by rabid dog, you have to be treated right away, and the only way to ensure a dog does not have rabies is to do an autopsy of it's brain. Another incentive to leave aggresive dogs at home (I guess unless you want to carry their vaccination records with you).
Like a rabies tag?
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hellsbellsrn
Jun 5, 2006, 9:13 PM
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Being a dog lover and owner who has brought my dog to the crag I know what a joy it is to have your buddy there with you, but i can also see the other side of the argument. I feel the answer to both sides of this argument is there is one person to blame for bad dog experiences, and that is the dog owner. YOu don't have to pass a test to be a dog owner, and frankly some owner's are idiots and can't take care of themself, nevermind a living creature. This is where responsible people like most who have posted here need to say, "hey your dog is posing a threat to the dogs who are behaving and to all who are climbing"...posting your concerns here will most likely not have an effect if you don't act on them.
What sickens me is someone saying they would "kick a dog in the throat" for going into their pack or disturbing their climbing. I have one thing to say to all that feel that way about crag dogs....12-16$ a day pass...stick to the indoor climbing scene. You are obviously too unstable to be climbing outdoors.
That is my 2 cents...bring your dog to the crag because you will be able to climb and spend time with them...don't bring them because you feel guilty leaving them home while working on your multi pitch project.
heth
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ullr
Jun 5, 2006, 9:24 PM
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How many dog threads does RC.com need?
Why don't you dog haters use the SEARCH function. There are plenty of threads on this beaten subject.
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devils_advocate
Jun 5, 2006, 10:57 PM
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In reply to: How many dog threads does RC.com need?
Not enough if you ask me. I only saw 3 on the front page, so I made one called Bad Dog. Bad. and shot for four. Alas, it seems that community doesn't make it to the front page.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/114123
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weschrist
Jun 6, 2006, 2:56 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Tough guy hiding behind an aliass. You're doing the same thing :roll: uh, he's not threatening a dog. dumbass. no but hes threatining the guy if something were to happen to his dog
No, I'm calling out someone who is lame enough to consider kicking a dog less than 1/4 his weight in the throat for potentially sniffing his pack.
My name is Wes Christensen (hardly an alias) and I live in South Lake Tahoe, CA. Feel free to look me up.
p.s. if my dog DID go through your pack (which has never happened) and you weren't a complete ass about it, I would gladly treat you to a nice meal and a few beers at a nice resturant.
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secretninja
Jun 6, 2006, 3:04 AM
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In reply to: So what happened with the bite? I have three dogs and they are like my babies, but as I understand, the animal has to be sacrificed to ensure that they don't have rabies. Did you take the owner's word that the dog had vaccinations? Wow, just reading about this dog bite really makes me shudder to think what would happen to both the victom and the dog.
The owner assured me the vaccinations were up to date and offered documentation. The point i was trying to make was that out of the thousands of times the dog interacted with people before, there was no problems. However, i was the unlucky one who met the dog on a bad day. My dogs in the past have been nothing but sweethearts with both adults and children, but i don't think its fair to the other climbers to take that gamble because even the best trained/socialized dogs have bad days. Even allowing friendly dog to roam who jumps up at an inopportune moment on a belayer is inviting disaster. Tie your dog. IF you want to take your dog out for a stroll, go for a hike.
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thisflash
Jun 6, 2006, 4:34 AM
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In reply to: Oh GOD I wish I still lived in SLC and you tried that s---!
Me too, Wes Christensen, me too.
If you're ever in town pm me and I'll give you a chance to try some mixed martial arts down at Sandy Station. It's a good time. It would give you a chance to take out some of the agression you have for the 99.9% of the world that don't give a rat's ass about you or your dog.
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weschrist
Jun 6, 2006, 4:41 AM
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In reply to: It would give you a chance to take out some of the agression you have for the 99.9% of the world that don't give a rat's ass about you or your dog.
the only aggression I have is for people who are big enough pussies to threaten little dogs.
You reep what you soe... violence breed violence... violence toward my dog or my friends reeps 10 fold
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roklizard
Jun 6, 2006, 5:23 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Tough guy hiding behind an aliass. You're doing the same thing :roll: uh, he's not threatening a dog. dumbass. no but hes threatining the guy if something were to happen to his dog No, I'm calling out someone who is lame enough to consider kicking a dog less than 1/4 his weight in the throat for potentially sniffing his pack. My name is Wes Christensen (hardly an alias) and I live in South Lake Tahoe, CA. Feel free to look me up. p.s. if my dog DID go through your pack (which has never happened) and you weren't a complete ass about it, I would gladly treat you to a nice meal and a few beers at a nice resturant.
Yeah i try to stay out of this one because its sad. I can tell you i don't care if my dog pissed on your pack, you kick him or even try not only will I kick the shit out of you but so will my friends. Also when I'm done beating you down like the little bitch you are, I'll piss on your pack. Since I know this is all talk I'm not worried about it. Still I dare you to fuck around and try and touch someone's dog. If your ever in az let me know me and my two pitbull's will meet you for some climbing?
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secretninja
Jun 6, 2006, 5:27 AM
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Why cant we all just hold hands and sing kumbaya?
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colkurtz
Jun 6, 2006, 6:11 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Oh GOD I wish I still lived in SLC and you tried that s---! Me too, Wes Christensen, me too. If you're ever in town pm me and I'll give you a chance to try some mixed martial arts down at Sandy Station. It's a good time. It would give you a chance to take out some of the aggression you have for the 99.9% of the world that don't give a rat's ass about you or your dog.
why am i not surprised to find that someone who practices "mixed" fighting to have aggression issues. and then projecting them on someone else.
go ahead hurt animals, chip holds, start fights, vote for gw. it's all the same bag. you got issues and you need to get over them. if you act on them there will no doubt be repercussions for you because your 99.9% figure is way off.
oh yeh, mixed fighting, is no art. stop channeling your aggressions and get rid of them.
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devils_advocate
Jun 7, 2006, 9:40 PM
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In reply to: go ahead hurt animals, chip holds, start fights, vote for gw. it's all the same bag.
This is a dumb thread that contrary to my belief of going nowhere, has moved towards people threatening each other... I could care less if your pro- or anti-dog, lowering yourself to threats on a message board is pathetic.
However, something good came out of this thread, the quote above, and for that sir, a trophy.
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vivalargo
Jun 9, 2006, 9:39 PM
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Someone wrote: "I can tell you i don't care if my dog pissed on your pack, you kick him or even try not only will I kick the shit out of you but so will my friends. Also when I'm done beating you down like the little bitch you are, I'll piss on your pack."
And you claim to actually have friends?
JL
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hellsbellsrn
Jun 10, 2006, 1:54 AM
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well some people view their dogs as an extension of themselves and become very sensitive about this subject! :wink:
Actually, being a dog owner the only thing I can do is laugh at the things people write here....some very irrational climbers out there! But trust me, when the dog pisses on someone's pack, then gets threatened and a scene from Fight Club occurs, I want to be there...I'll bring a radio and play a theme song then we'll all have something tangible to write about here.
H's
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vivalargo
Jun 10, 2006, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: well some people view their dogs as an extension of themselves and become very sensitive about this subject! :wink: Actually, being a dog owner the only thing I can do is laugh at the things people write here....some very irrational climbers out there! But trust me, when the dog pisses on someone's pack, then gets threatened and a scene from Fight Club occurs, I want to be there...I'll bring a radio and play a theme song then we'll all have something tangible to write about here. H's
H--
You ever know real fighters? I grew up around them. Most rarely threatened or talked trash or anything of the sort. That's all hip-hop shuck and jive posturing. The ones you have to watch are the ones who say nothing at all till--blam! It's on.
JL
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hellsbellsrn
Jun 10, 2006, 3:44 AM
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I didn't grow up with any real fighters, but I'm assuming they wouldn't pick a fight with a dog either!
just a guess
H's
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billcoe_
Dec 19, 2006, 3:43 AM
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[quote "hellsbellsrn"]I didn't grow up with any real fighters, but I'm assuming they wouldn't pick a fight with a dog either!
just a guess
H's[/quote]
Well not if it was a Pit Bull Duh!
BTW, 2nd dog has been "rescued" via the adoption/rescue organization by the wife, and we have Sadie-May the trailer park floosie joining Hank the Dog in our house. You wouldn't like her either I'd bet, but as she's a "Puddin Jack", she is smaller and furrier than the first dude/Hank the Dog. Pretty fun lil dogs really. But they do all their crappin and pissin at home, not on yer pack. So hopefully you won't send then through the goalposts like some furry lil footballs or anything.
Regards to all
Bill
[crazy]
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zeke_sf
Dec 19, 2006, 4:07 AM
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tell you what. that dog pisses on my pack, I hold it down--squirming and squealing--and then I piss on its pointy little forehead.
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ihategrigris
Apr 16, 2007, 6:40 AM
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ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!!
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bent_gate
Apr 16, 2007, 7:58 AM
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Why keep complaining to those who can't help you? When you see animals off leash, call:
Calgary Animal Control Complaints: call 3-1-1 or (403) 268-CITY (2489)- if calling from outside Calgary
Canmore Animal Control Complaints: Phone 403-609-0728 or 403-996-0567
No collar w/ attached license: $25
No license: $250
Running at large: $100
Animal Control is required to issue fines. The owners will learn quick.
Sic THE MAN on their dogs...
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notapplicable
Apr 16, 2007, 12:14 PM
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Or throw a rock.
Less time consuming and faster results.
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kman
Apr 16, 2007, 6:33 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't really that bad. The amount of people were by far more annoying than those dogs.
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mowz
Apr 16, 2007, 6:38 PM
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Did you take it up with the dog owners or did you just bite your tongue?
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devils_advocate
Apr 16, 2007, 6:38 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!!
you're a cat person, aren't you.
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stevej
Apr 16, 2007, 6:53 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!!
Hates dogs, hates gri gris, probably hates his father and climbing too...
Fucking moron, just go kill your self you will be much happier there. No one to hate.
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ihategrigris
Apr 16, 2007, 7:24 PM
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stevej wrote: ihategrigris wrote: ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!! Hates dogs, hates gri gris, probably hates his father and climbing too... Fucking moron, just go kill your self you will be much happier there. No one to hate.
Oh thats nice.... next time I go to the crags, I'll sniff your pack and walk all over you're rope (while your belaying) and i'll see how you feel.
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reno
Apr 16, 2007, 7:30 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: .... next time I go to the crags, I'll sniff your pack and walk all over you're rope (while your belaying) and i'll see how you feel.
If you did that to me, I just might scratch your ears and rub your tummy.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
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mitchgripgrabber
Apr 17, 2007, 2:16 AM
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Sounds like the dogs need to leave their people at home. 50 people hogging up routes, pissing, moaning, spewing, stomping down the grass, sounds like hell to me. Give me the dogs anytime. Barking is way more interesting than a stream of beta babble.
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ihategrigris
Apr 17, 2007, 2:37 AM
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reno wrote: ihategrigris wrote: .... next time I go to the crags, I'll sniff your pack and walk all over you're rope (while your belaying) and i'll see how you feel. If you did that to me, I just might scratch your ears and rub your tummy. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course.
Hey, affection is affection, I take what I can get  .
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socalclimber
Apr 17, 2007, 2:47 AM
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"And you claim to actually have friends?
JL "
What's far more scary and of concern is the type of friends he has, or that he would be...
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deadhorse
Apr 17, 2007, 4:38 AM
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There's nothing wrong with a calm, chilled out, enjoying the fresh air, crag dog. Not to say that they are all that common though. My belayers dog took my hat today while i was climbing and ran around with it. I guess they like hunter orange.
However
A wild, hyper dog isn't as bad as a wild hyper kid. At least with the dog you dont have to worry about the consequences of it getting hurt around your stuff, or getting whipped by your falling rope, or hearing your obscenities/crude jokes. And little kids can steal shit much more covertly than dogs because of their little ever-sticky fingers. And also, little kids are almost always off their leash.
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ihategrigris
Apr 17, 2007, 4:49 AM
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deadhorse wrote: There's nothing wrong with a calm, chilled out, enjoying the fresh air, crag dog. Not to say that they are all that common though. My belayers dog took my hat today while i was climbing and ran around with it. I guess they like hunter orange. However A wild, hyper dog isn't as bad as a wild hyper kid. At least with the dog you dont have to worry about the consequences of it getting hurt around your stuff, or getting whipped by your falling rope, or hearing your obscenities/crude jokes. And little kids can steal shit much more covertly than dogs because of their little ever-sticky fingers. And also, little kids are almost always off their leash.
Yeah, good point... leave those little fuggers at home too. 
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thewayneman
Apr 17, 2007, 10:44 PM
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Supid thought, lets all get cats. They are better climbers,right?
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ihategrigris
Apr 18, 2007, 12:14 AM
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thewayneman wrote: Supid thought, lets all get cats. They are better climbers,right?
I like cats, but don't bring those to the crags either :P.
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chossmonkey
Apr 18, 2007, 1:02 PM
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stevej wrote: Hates dogs, hates gri gris, probably hates his father and climbing too... Fucking moron, just go kill your self you will be much happier there. No one to hate.
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granite_grrl
Apr 18, 2007, 1:06 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: thewayneman wrote: Supid thought, lets all get cats. They are better climbers,right? I like cats, but don't bring those to the crags either :P.
Chossy was all over trying to figure out how to bring our cat to the crag if when we started travelling again. We figured the biggest thing getting in our way of owning a crag cat was the crag dogs!
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ihategrigris
Apr 18, 2007, 1:17 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: ihategrigris wrote: thewayneman wrote: Supid thought, lets all get cats. They are better climbers,right? I like cats, but don't bring those to the crags either :P. Chossy was all over trying to figure out how to bring our cat to the crag if when we started travelling again. We figured the biggest thing getting in our way of owning a crag cat was the crag dogs!
Theres a woman in Canmore who just keeps her cat on a leash. It follows here when she goes cragging. The cat has scrambled peaks, sat at the base of tons of climbs and travelled all over the country in a 'yota van.
Approching with a cat is a little diferent, as the cat sets the pace, not you... but you will get there; slowly.
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j_ung
Apr 18, 2007, 1:17 PM
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Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. 
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bent_gate
Apr 18, 2007, 1:56 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: Theres a woman in Canmore who just keeps her cat on a leash. It follows here when she goes cragging. The cat has scrambled peaks, sat at the base of tons of climbs and travelled all over the country in a 'yota van. Approching with a cat is a little diferent, as the cat sets the pace, not you... but you will get there; slowly.
Is this the lady you're talking about?
I know most of the crag dogs don't mess with them...
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granite_grrl
Apr 18, 2007, 2:31 PM
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bent_gate wrote: Is this the lady you're talking about? I know most of the crag dogs don't mess with them...
Sweet Jesus, and I thought our cat was kinda big.
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chossmonkey
Apr 18, 2007, 2:56 PM
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bent_gate wrote: Is this the lady you're talking about? I know most of the crag dogs don't mess with them...
I bet that cat could kick most dogs asses! That thing is huge. Or maybe she is kinda small, but still it would be a big cat.
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clausti
Apr 18, 2007, 3:27 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is.
when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours."
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devils_advocate
Apr 18, 2007, 3:48 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: deadhorse wrote: A wild, hyper dog isn't as bad as a wild hyper kid. At least with the dog you dont have to worry about the consequences of it getting hurt around your stuff, or getting whipped by your falling rope, or hearing your obscenities/crude jokes. And little kids can steal shit much more covertly than dogs because of their little ever-sticky fingers. And also, little kids are almost always off their leash. Yeah, good point... leave those little fuggers at home too.
Nice. I think this deserves it's own thread.
Wait a minute... I love making posts that get people riled up. Especially when I don't even believe in whatever point I'm making. I'll do it.
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thomasribiere
Apr 18, 2007, 3:59 PM
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clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is. when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours."
great story! 
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puerto
Apr 18, 2007, 4:24 PM
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Holy sh*t that's not a cat, that's a friggin mountain lion!
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bent_gate
Apr 18, 2007, 4:51 PM
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clausti wrote: when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours."
I agree, that is a pretty good story.
This and other stories will shortly be spun off into it's own thread titled "My Crag Cat Hates Your Crag Dog"
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the_climber
Apr 18, 2007, 5:10 PM
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bent_gate wrote: No collar w/ attached license: $25
No license: $250
Animal Control is required to issue fines. The owners will learn quick. Sic THE MAN on their dogs...
The only problem with that is the licensing of animals is governed by the city and the license only applies to the city from which it was issued.
For example: If you live on an acreage outside of any town or city limits, you are not required to register your dogs/cats. That is one of the reasons most breeders choose to live outside city limits.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Apr 18, 2007, 5:11 PM)
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unrooted
Apr 18, 2007, 6:24 PM
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There are three things you leave at home:
1)Dog
2)Kids
3)Radio.
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kevinheiss
Apr 18, 2007, 8:03 PM
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I totally agree about leaving any type of music or radio at home. For god sake you can even turn off your cellphone as the whole reason to go climbing outside is to leave technology behind.
As for dogs, cats, kids, as long as they don't bark/cry and don't start going through my stuff then I am fine. Most dog's i've encountered were really god but as for kids, most of them just annoyed me, started to complain, crying.
Plus many parks have restrictions on dogs these days which is probably a result of the owners. that and the increase of dog bits.
Kevin
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ryanpfleger
Apr 18, 2007, 8:22 PM
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unrooted wrote: There are three things you leave at home: 1)Dog 2)Kids 3)Radio.
I think this is the perfect segue into my personal philosophy about crag ettiquette. If you bring tunes to the rock, others may not want to hear them, so to be polite you bring headphones (I hope). I think its also your prerogative to bring your iKid, and your iDog along with your iPod. Leave the ghetto blaster, the sniveling brat, and the nosy mutt at home. But, if they're small, inobtrusive, and have an easily accessible volume knob....
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chossmonkey
Apr 18, 2007, 10:03 PM
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clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is. when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours."
I am really thinking about going and getting a harness and leash for him. He has always been an indoor cat and as it is he really doesn't try to get outside. I think if we started taking him out he would start bolting for the door. When we finally get back on the road we are going to have to take him with though.
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tradrenn
Apr 18, 2007, 11:29 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: bent_gate wrote: Is this the lady you're talking about? [image]http://www.sff.net/people/christina/cat.jpg[/image] I know most of the crag dogs don't mess with them... Sweet Jesus, and I thought our cat was kinda big.
Till today I also thought that.
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tradrenn
Apr 18, 2007, 11:32 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is. when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours." Hmmm. I'm not sure what he'd do if a mean dog got too close. He does have his claws, but I don't know if he'd be smart enough to know what to do with them. I am really thinking about going and getting a harness and leash for him. He has always been an indoor cat and as it is he really doesn't try to get outside. I think if we started taking him out he would start bolting for the door. When we finally get back on the road we are going to have to take him with though.
CM bring him out this weekend man, it would be so much fun I'm gonna pee me pants. ( image of you with your cat on a leash is slowly burning into me head, DUDE that's too funny )
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alexmac
Apr 19, 2007, 3:53 PM
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ihategrigris wrote: ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!!
First, I am a dog person, but...
First time climbing drop a rock, not on the dogs but near it, Rock Opps me bad, call out.
They don't get the hint, get closer.
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ihategrigris
Apr 19, 2007, 4:04 PM
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alexmac wrote: ihategrigris wrote: ARRRGH!!! Another day at dog crags.... 4 dogs, off a leash, fighting eachother right next to my pack; YOU USELESS MFing TRASH, KEEP YOUR POS MUTTS UNDER CONTROL! I hate you, and I hate your god damn, out of control, not tied up, ugly, smelly, stepping on my rope, sniffing my pack, disobediant dogs. ^%^%$ YOU!!!!!!!!!! First, I am a dog person, but... First time climbing drop a rock, not on the dogs but near it, Rock Opps me bad, call out. They don't get the hint, get closer.
Good idea, except this was at heart creek (first rock) so the rock as surprisingly bomber (by rockies standards :S).
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furgie
Apr 19, 2007, 7:58 PM
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[quote "wjca"][quote]What crag were you at?
At Grassi there was some dumb f--- there that wouldn't call his dog back, even though it was f---ing around with another [u]leashed[/u] dog and [b]the leashed dogs owner was trying to get the unleashed dog to fuck off.[/b] The owner of the other dog just watched like a moron. Idiot owners own idiot dogs. Good owners own good dogs.[/quote]
Please explain how one goes about trying to get a dog to fuck off. I gotta know.[/quote]
you punch it in the face or kick it in the balls.
P.S. i love dogs
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furgie
Apr 19, 2007, 8:03 PM
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[quote "spartandano"]What about climbers who don't like people? People basically suck. Being around dogs isn't as bad because I don't have to listen to their jackass comments all day. If I choose to go to a crag that is overrun by people, I just have to nut it up and deal with it. I guess life is just unfair...[/quote]
amen bro, thats what I'm talking about. this world would be so much better without all of these dumbasses surrounding me at the local wall.
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bent_gate
Apr 19, 2007, 8:17 PM
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wjca wrote: In reply to: What crag were you at? At Grassi there was some dumb f--- there that wouldn't call his dog back, even though it was f---ing around with another leashed dog and the leashed dogs owner was trying to get the unleashed dog to fuck off. The owner of the other dog just watched like a moron. Idiot owners own idiot dogs. Good owners own good dogs. Please explain how one goes about trying to get a dog to fuck off. I gotta know.
Carry pepper spray with you at the crag. It's good to have for other wild animals anyway. If a dog won't leave you alone, spray him. He will leave.
Hopefully the owners will figure it out a leash him. (And if they get upset and get in your face, spray them too.)
The last part was a joke btw for you dumba**es.
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furgie
Apr 19, 2007, 8:27 PM
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[quote "therealbovine"]Here is what can happen (worst case scenario) if someone does not like your dog when you are out climbing. My dog was shot twice with bird shot while climbing here in Missouri. He has made a full recovery. He was always a chill guy and never barked or bothered anyone. This day he had wondered off into the woods to check out a noise. I heard two shots and ran in after him. I never cought the shooter. This photo was taken about a week after the event.
that is totally not cool and if I ever saw anyone doing such a thing I would do it to them in return
[url]http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/62/cody0cy.jpg[/url][/quote]
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duckbuster_13
Apr 19, 2007, 8:46 PM
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I agree. Regardless of your thoughts about dogs at crags, punishing the dog for the stupidity of it's owner is not the answer. (i am not directing this at you btw)
Even a truly unruly mutt is at most a reflection of it's owner and the habits it's allowed to have. I say pepper the owner if you must, but let the dog be... it doesn't know any better.... people should.
(This post was edited by duckbuster_13 on Apr 19, 2007, 9:16 PM)
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clee03m
Apr 19, 2007, 8:49 PM
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That's so messed up. I can't imagine the shooter was a climber. I am guilty of bringing dogs, but they are always tied up. What bothers me is that some people let their dogs run free, and inevitably free dogs come and bother my dogs. Once one of my partners got pee'ed on by a dog. And they asked if he pee'ed again! If your dog pees on people, I think he needs to stay home. Irrisponsible dog owners give all of us a bad name.
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p_mcdermott
Apr 19, 2007, 9:20 PM
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There was a crag closed in the Red in part because of stupid ass dog owners. and now muir valley is about to go dog-less if the dog owners dont keep their dogs in check. If you cant be on the ground to keep your dog in control at all times then you shouldn't bring it to the crag. that is all
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clausti
Apr 20, 2007, 12:56 AM
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so went climbing at mill creek today. there were no less than *8* unleashed 85+ lb logs, a border collie, and an adorable, harmless (beter behaved than the big dogs) puppy, within a 30 foot stretch of cliffline. the big dogs got into fights with each other, barked at everyone, didnt get in trouble by their owners, [beyond yelled at from the rock, yeah, that is effective], most werent wearing collars, they were diggin up hillside plans, just plain digging in the dirt, and generally bing a nusiance. the 10 dogs belonged to three diff groups, with two of the groups bringing at least 3 very large dogs. one group didnt have collars on any of their three big dogs, and couldnt have tied them up even if they wanted to.
seriously, who the fuck brings four dogs to a crag in a group of two ppl? who does that? when it is obvious you'll both be lcimbing and cant do crap about your dogs?
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granite_grrl
Apr 21, 2007, 4:46 PM
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tradrenn wrote: chossmonkey wrote: clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is. when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours." Hmmm. I'm not sure what he'd do if a mean dog got too close. He does have his claws, but I don't know if he'd be smart enough to know what to do with them. I am really thinking about going and getting a harness and leash for him. He has always been an indoor cat and as it is he really doesn't try to get outside. I think if we started taking him out he would start bolting for the door. When we finally get back on the road we are going to have to take him with though. CM bring him out this weekend man, it would be so much fun I'm gonna pee me pants. ( image of you with your cat on a leash is slowly burning into me head, DUDE that's too funny )
Dude, last you hung out with our cat you basically mauled him, and he started getting kinda scared of you (not that that's a bad thing, I think Nathan and I probably let him get away with too much).
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granite_grrl
Apr 21, 2007, 4:52 PM
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clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is. when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours."
very cool. What have you done with your cat while you're on the road right now? I'm assuming you didn't bring her with. I think it would be better to leave our cat with someone when we get on the road again, but that might not really be an option. But if we don't figure something to do with him it would severly limit playing on multi pitch stuff.
Maybe we should bring him to the crag one day to see what his reaction would be. Give him a decently long leash and find a nice tree that he could climb if he got spooked.
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clausti
Apr 22, 2007, 1:04 AM
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granite_grrl wrote: clausti wrote: chossmonkey wrote: j_ung wrote: Oh, so now it's the dogs' fault you can't bring your crag cat? Typical. He likes dogs well enough. And its actually the dog owners who don't control their dogs that keep us from bringing him. :s I've seen some good ones out at the crags, but most need to be kicked. The dog owners that is. when i've brought my cat to the crag (a dozen or more times), she was harnessed, leashed, and tied up. when loose dogs came by, if they became bothersome, they would get a hurty nose for their troubles, as my cat has her claws. this is a cat small enough to ride in the kangaroo pocket of my pack for rappels. my response to any indignation on the part of the dog owners: "my animal is tied. yours is not. i am not repsonsible for the consequences to yours." very cool. What have you done with your cat while you're on the road right now? I'm assuming you didn't bring her with. I think it would be better to leave our cat with someone when we get on the road again, but that might not really be an option. But if we don't figure something to do with him it would severly limit playing on multi pitch stuff. Maybe we should bring him to the crag one day to see what his reaction would be. Give him a decently long leash and find a nice tree that he could climb if he got spooked.
she's in clemson with a good friend. i thought that owuld be a lot better than takign her with me and having to keep her tied most of the time.
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dlintz
May 15, 2007, 3:25 PM
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Two situations at Shelf Road last weekend:
1. Walking along the cliff and confronted by 3 charging, barking dogs......3 of a pack of 6 fucking dogs. They outnumbered the climbers in that group.
2. Someone's friendly but persistent black lab wandering the campground looking for food. It's not my job to keep someone else's dog out of my site unless they don't mind me throwing rocks at it.
I didn't have any problems with the other 30 dogs I encountered.
[/rant]
d.
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climbdork
May 15, 2007, 5:41 PM
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Skinner of Alberta raises an interesting point. I've never heard anyone suggest that non-climbers are responsible for approaching us about our impact on other users of the spaces where we climb. We're expected to check each other ourselves. By the same token, I would expect dog-keeping climbers to check other to maintain cordial relations with other climbers, as well as the public at large.
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cosmiccragsman
May 17, 2007, 2:32 AM
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I always take my dog when I go out climbing,
or am up in the mountains. He's such a good dog, and he always carries my alcohol for me.
cosmiccragsman
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throb
May 17, 2007, 2:39 AM
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Dogs at crags generally suck. I used to go to a small sport area near Abingdon VA and the best thing about it was that it was on private land where the land owner liked climbers, but banned dogs.
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sungam
Aug 17, 2007, 3:40 PM
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Personally, I use my crag cat.
His shits are smaller, and tend to be more camaflauged, saving me alot of trouble. Can also clip a 'biner through his neck loop thing and attach him to my haul loop for when I leave from the topout.
-MagnuS
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j_stone
Aug 17, 2007, 4:04 PM
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I own a dog that is super well behaved and just keeps to her self, but I don’t bring her the crowded crags where there might be other dogs because most often those dogs get in her face and start annoying us. Unfortunately many people aren't responsible pet owners and it ruins it for everyone. If you have a well adjusted, socialized, quiet, mellow dog that doesn’t crap in the trail I think bringing it to the crag is okay, but that’s about 5% of the dogs out there.
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fresh
Aug 17, 2007, 4:29 PM
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much like people should leave their dogs at home, I wish that people would leave their kids at home. a bunch of little kids scrambling around beneath me is the last thing I need while I'm bouldering at the gym. they should be tied to a tree outside, or better, left in a cage for the duration of the parents' visit.
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billcoe_
Aug 17, 2007, 7:25 PM
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Yes, sigh, I know that my dog peed on your pack, ate your food, barked at you and humped your girlfriends leg. (couldn't blame the lil pup for that one!)
But I tol' him not to do all that again so its cool.
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wonderwoman
Aug 17, 2007, 7:28 PM
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fresh wrote: much like people should leave their dogs at home, I wish that people would leave their kids at home. a bunch of little kids scrambling around beneath me is the last thing I need while I'm bouldering at the gym. they should be tied to a tree outside, or better, left in a cage for the duration of the parents' visit.
You need to get outside and away from the indoor birthday party places!
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shockabuku
Aug 17, 2007, 7:43 PM
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Frankly, I don't like my dog that much either.
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drjghl
Aug 17, 2007, 8:00 PM
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One day, my friend and I hiked to the base of a multipitch climb at Leavenworth. The only climb in the shade at this area. As we approached, a dog comes charging out at us, teeth clenched, growling, hair raised. We stopped, backed off, and eventually the dog turned around and walked back to a shaded spot nearby. We eventually got on the route. And as we climbed, the owners came hiking back down after climbing the route. They were oblivious to what had happended and my partner and I were, needless to say, focused on other matters to talk.
I love dogs. Half my cimbing partners have dogs. I pet every dog I meet at the crag. I enjoy their company.
There is ONE particular circumstance that i would like to comment on. If the owner/surrogate can not be present to supervise his/her dog at a crag, they MIGHT want to leave their dog at home. If that dog did not back off, and we were forced to leave, I would have been really pissed off.
Unfortunately, because of the irresponsibility of some dog owners, the restrictions on dogs will continue. This is too bad because I love having dogs at the crag. And they love getting out.
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the_climber
Aug 17, 2007, 8:40 PM
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Out of all the dogs I have ever owned, which is a lot now, I have only ever had one well enough behaved to bring to the crag. That is my current dog... well one of the 4 My better half and I have. All that and he is a "puppy" at only about 16 months old. Greats everyone with a smile and a wagging tail and remains tied up at the base while I climb with a big ol' bowl of water... most of the time he naps away the day. And he is leashed for the hike in unless we are the only ones there.
The only time he ever barked at someone at the crag, well, they were Quebecers so we can all understand that one. One bark, one "Enough!" from me, and he was quiet for the rest of the day.
Now as for all the other dogs I have owned: There is a reason I never brought them to the crag. If your dog can't stay well mannered both while you are on the ground and while you are climbing leave them at home. And please, if you have a breed which is susseptible to heat related illnesses (heat stroke,...) leave them at home on those really hot days, and please please please bring enough water for them.
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james481
Aug 17, 2007, 9:17 PM
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Wow, there certainly are some opinionated people here on this subject. As a total noob, I can only offer a general perspective on this issue, but here goes...
Number 1: Dogs do not have the same rights as people. Sure, we have to put up with annoying people all the time (not just at the crags), but we, as a society, have deemed that people, no matter how annoying, have basic rights that we should not violate. Dogs do not share this same protection. A dog has no rights granted to it by our society, other than (perhaps) protection from excessive cruelty. This is evidenced in multiple ways. Try leaving your child tied to a tree at the bottom of a climb and see what the authorities have to say on the matter.
Number 2: To the guy who said that he doesn't care if his dog pees on someone's pack, and if they discipline his dog in some way, he will inflict physical harm on them: Your attitude makes you a great candidate for a darwin award. If your dog pees on my pack, it needs to be disciplined. If you are unwilling or unavailable to enforce said discipline, I would be forced to do it for you, as I see fit. I would never try and intentionally injure a dog for something like peeing on my pack, but I would certainly inflict some amount of pain on it as a discipline measure. You may be the best martial artist who ever lived (but I doubt it), but if you try and start a physical conflict with someone who happens to be carrying a gun, you'll end up in the morgue for your troubles (disclaimer: I'm not saying I would shoot or otherwise harm anybody, just that starting a physical confrontation with someone who may or may not be armed is asking to end up DRT).
Number 3: To the guy with the shot up dog, I feel for you. That is an awful situation any time a pet ends up with such grievous injuries. Just know that by allowing your dog to run free, unattended, you were asking for it to happen. You don't know what situation transpired with your dog in the woods. If I was taking a hike through the woods with my (hypothetical) child, and I came around the corner to find an unattended and unleashed dog, I would be extremely cautious. If this hypothetical dog made any sort of threatening gestures to either myself or my child, I would put two in it's face without any hesitation, and wouldn't feel a second of regret for doing so. Now you may say that your dog has never threatened or tried to attack anybody, which may or may not be true, but it doesn't matter. If the person who shot your dog felt threatened by it, then they had the right to protect themselves by lethal force. Relating back to my point number 1, a person has basic rights granted by our society, a dog does not. Without you physically being present to control your animal, any action that is judged threatening is an instant death sentence for your animal. This applies as much on the street in front of your house as it does at the crag. I have the right to protect myself and my loved ones from your dog, employing lethal force if I deem it necessary. This is why, not matter how "good and friendly" your dog may be, you should never leave it unattended and off-leash. Someone else may not see it as so good or friendly, and then your dog has to die (or be grievously injured in your case) because of your neglect, and you have no one to blame but yourself.
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