Glad it's a happy ending!

Thanks for posting. Hopefully this will add to people's caution, and things to look for before they repel. It would be worthwhile to know if there is a different type of mark at the middle and near the ends of Petzl ropes, or if they are exactly the same (I hope not!) Is there any way to distinguish the two marks?

Apparently Petzl puts warning marks (identicle to center marks) on the ends of their ropes. Those marks, just fyi, are a very poor place to snap in to rappel.

Well it looks like you learned a (potentially) painful lesson without to much in the way of injuries.

It is something all of us have gone through at one time or another.

Subject: Middle and End rope markings on your Petzl ropes
From: <bent_gate@rockclimbing.com>
To: info@petzl.com
Date: Friday, July 6, 2007 10:02:42 PM

I wanted to let you know about a potential problem that some climbers have had with your rope regarding the Rope Markings on the Middle and the End of your ropes.

Because the markings on the ends and the middle are the same, there has been a situation where a climber reached into his pile of rope and pulled out an 'end' instead of the 'middle'. After clipping it into a biner and tossing the rope, he made the very serious saftey mistake of NOT visually looking to make sure the ends of his rope were on the ground. He began to rappel(abseil) and after only several feet he fortunately felt one end of the rope moving into his hand and was able to avert rappelling off the end of the short side of the rope!

He posted his story here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rum.cgi?post=1625549

Obviously this is human/user error, but after thinking about his story I thought I would notify you and offer some other suggestions.

The end marks seem designed to alert the climber that they are approaching the end of their rope. So they are a significant distance from the end of the rope to do so. As a result, it can be very hard to tell if this black mark is for the middle or for the end when it is in a pile, and even when he rope is hung over an edge as it frequently is, the real end is out of sight. In situations where it is dark, or with headlamps, it may be impossible to distinguish. And ultimately it seems this marking scheme may be adding more confusion than helping.

So I would like to suggest the following ideas in the order of simplest/least cost to more elaborate/more cost:
1) Simply eliminate the end markings since they are the same as the middle (and may cause more problems then they help)
2) Keep the end marks but differentiate them with a different pattern, such as hash marks (dotted line)
3) Make the end marks both a different pattern, and a different color if available, such as red. (in the dark the red alone might not be seen as a different color, so the hash mark pattern is still more important)

I have been using your products for years: Harnesses, Helmet, Biners. As a happy user, I wanted to let you know of this potential situation with the rope markings so you could re-evaluate if it is the best marking choice for your new product. Thanks.

-Brad

ALWAYS CHECK THE DAMN ENDS BEFORE YOU COMMIT. There is way to much reliance on middle marks, taped ends etc these days.

Other options: Find the midpoint and tie a quick overhand bight in it before you put it away each time. Takes a minute or two but you should inspect the rope after every use anyway. Or use a needle and some contrasty colored thread to weave your own middle mark around the sheath. It won't hurt anything. Or, once you've got the midpoint, coil the ends of the rope on your gear loops and feed them out as you rap down, instead of blindly throwing them.

Although I agree that when possible you should verify that both ends of the rope are even, that is not always possible.

I don't and haven't used middle marks on my ropes, not ever really. It is a source of friction with my partners and I.

I recently needed to do a single rope rap down a new line. My partners were elsewhere, working a different route. When I tossed the rope ends I could not confirm the ends were on the ground, no matter the vantage.

I walked down, as it was possible. The ends were down, just.

I don't routinely tie knots in the ends of my rap ropes. In fact I would only tie knots in the end if I had to rap, I couldn't see the ends and the wind wasn't blowing much.

Rapping down the side of El Cap NO WAY I'd tie knots in the ends of the ropes, that's a recipe for a rescue imo.

Being sure. Having a backup plan in mind. Working it through mentally, ahead of time....


DMT

Your best bet is a bicolor rope, because even when you get the middle marked with a black marker, it wears off after a few climbs. To fix the problem of a mono-colored rope, simple take time to put stopper knots in the ends of the rope. It only take like 30 seconds max. Also if you can walk off, in my opinion, rapping has a larger possibility of mistake then climbing. Which this reminds me, back up your rap, it is too easy to accidently let go and fall to a serious injury or death.

Climb and Rap Safe
Michael

Is there an easy, cheap way to mark your middle and ends at home, I have looked everywhere (short of ordering online) for a blue water marker. I know the sharpies are dangerous, I have used tape, which is nice for night raps cause i can feel it pass, but it moves and gums up, I do use end nots but would like a simple middle marker.

Thanks

Is there any other sport, besides rock climbing, whose participants are becoming less and less knowledgeable with time?

So are you an asshole in real life, or do you just play one on RC.com.

Why is that an asshole comment? It's a fact. On the whole, the rock climbing population has become less and less knowledgeable over time.

Jay

Why is that an asshole comment? It's a fact. On the whole, the rock climbing population has become less and less knowledgeable over time.

Jay

If being an asshole cause you want to live is a bad thing...

btw, I received a prompt reponse to my email on this from Petzl and they said they "are looking into it and will be contacting the original poster."

This thread reminds me of that story about two guys peeing off a bridge. One turns to the other and says, "Damn, that water's cold!" Not to be outdone, the other guy replies, "Yeah, and deep, too..."

While bicolor'd ropes are great (yes, I own one) they are not a replacement for ensuring the ends are even. Period. This isn't complicated folks. Stop relying on short cuts and start relying on common sense and you are likely to live a lot longer. For all the spray and talk on this site, very few seem to understand that your best/worst tool is your brain.

Oh, and if you are headed up a long multi pitch route requiring raps to get off, make sure the middle mark is correct BEFORE YOU HEAD UP THE ROUTE.

And getting peanut butter all over the rope just adds to the risk of sliding off the ends!

Not marking the middle of the rope is willfully increasing the hazard of rappelling.

Cheers,
Rob.calm

I totally disagree with marking rope to avoid fatal mistake. This habit of marking ropes and color coding equipment is turning climbers to blind robots. Sir, you need to get your lazy as* in to work by pulling that 60 meter rope out, measure 30 +- meter rope out using your hand, throw it down with a nut at the end and rap . You need to do this every time.

..... throw it down with a nut at the end and rap . You need to do this every time.

I totally disagree with marking rope to avoid fatal mistake. This habit of marking ropes and color coding equipment is turning climbers to blind robots. Sir, you need to get your lazy as* in to work by pulling that 60 meter rope out, measure 30 +- meter rope out using your hand, throw it down with a nut at the end and rap . You need to do this every time.

I totally disagree with marking rope to avoid fatal mistake. This habit of marking ropes and color coding equipment is turning climbers to blind robots. Sir, you need to get your lazy as* in to work by pulling that 60 meter rope out, measure 30 +- meter rope out using your hand, throw it down with a knot at the end and rap . You need to do this every time.

edit; my mistake "knot"

I am not a climber

While rapelling always try to confirm that both ends ended up on the ground and while on the way down keep your eyes firmly on the rope 6-10 feet below you...I've always noticed that people on rapell seem to be more concerned with looking at their feet or anywhere else rather that which should be most important - the rope...

Another important note - it is possible under certain circumstances for one strand to ride up and thereby causing rope lengths to uneven. Again - look where you're going and you'll be fine.

Is there any other sport, besides rock climbing, whose participants are becoming less and less knowledgeable with time?

Jay

I'd say you shouldn't give exclusive attention to either your feet or the rope. If you ignore the features of the your descent, you could bust your ass. If you ignore the rope (especially with unequal diameter ropes that may feed unevenly), you could bust your ass. As I stated earlier, I like to alternate my focus back and forth. I know what sort of terrain is coming up, and I know I have a good length of clear rope beneath me.

it's not a Petzl, it's a Mammut

Well it's definitely not a sport, but posting on the internet seems to fit the description.

LOL,I didn't mean that " you should give nothing but undivided attention to nothing but the rope." I didn't want to start explaining the obvious.

Anyhow, my earlier statement may lead some to believe that that is so... I stand corrected.

Trophy for you. I seriously doubt that forums like this are what Crowther and the rest of the ARPANET creators had in mind.

Curt

Tying knots in the end of the rope is situational. That’s better than saying, “I seldom do it”.

Having the middle of the rope marked provides information that increases safety, so why not do it?

Yet I seldom do it, go figger.


Don't like tape, markers don't stay marked. If the rope doesn't have a factory mark I'm not super motivated to add one. I learned roped climbing sans middle marker and while it can be a little time saver it isn't a big deal at all to not have one.

DMT

Yet I seldom do it, go figger.


Don't like tape, markers don't stay marked. If the rope doesn't have a factory mark I'm not super motivated to add one. I learned roped climbing sans middle marker and while it can be a little time saver it isn't a big deal at all to not have one.

DMT