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Gmburns2000
Jul 18, 2007, 8:13 PM
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That belayor deserves a medal. It was really a courageous thing to do, even if done out of instinct. 40-50 ft; that's a long way to fall. It is absolutely amazing she isn't hurt more.
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olderic
Jul 18, 2007, 8:37 PM
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This thread is a perfect example of the problems with rc.com and with electronic messages boards in general. People shoot from the hip without having any idea of what they are talking about. Misinterpreting things (what does "unclip" mean?).
Trying to analyze what was done wrong without even knowing what was done.
I really think it serves little purpose to report these type of stories until after the facts are known and the outcome is no longer in doubt. For decades the stogy old AAC has published "Accidents in NA Mountaineering". You all should look at that as an example of how accidents should be reported and analyzed.
In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole.
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c4c
Jul 18, 2007, 8:44 PM
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Bold lead Eric! nice.
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bent_gate
Jul 18, 2007, 9:02 PM
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olderic wrote: In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole.
You don't have to post anything on it. That's fine.
But with limited and even wrong information (like weapons of mass destruction), people are still going to spend time speculating and discussing it among themselves. In both constructive and non-constructive manners. It's what people do.
So now you are going to withhold information, and then criticize others for not knowing that information? Perhaps you should only be doing one or the other?
So here is my speculation. The kids in these camps are taught to belay, and they have another person back-up the belay by holding the rope. The climber in this situation got to the top of the climb, but that's where it happened. In Rumney, the anchors are equipped with the "quick clip" type of anchors. By accident the girl tops out or moves in a way that pulls the rope out through the gates. The belayer is surprised that she is falling because they are still on belay. She puts out a hand to try to catch the head of the falling girl. [/speculation] and [/end_scene]
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boku
Jul 18, 2007, 9:02 PM
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I've seen similar almost-accidents that might match some elements of the report at hand:
Leader clips pro to the anchor and lowers off.
Inexperienced second unclips pro, arrives at the anchor, and while still in a cleaning frame of mind, starts to clip from it.
Belayer and bystanders shout for second to leave anchor clipped.
Second complies, lowers off.
Big sigh of relief.
I've watched this happen twice at the gym I go to.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 18, 2007, 9:14 PM
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boku wrote: I've seen similar almost-accidents that might match some elements of the report at hand: Leader clips pro to the anchor and lowers off. Inexperienced second unclips pro, arrives at the anchor, and while still in a cleaning frame of mind, starts to clip from it. Belayer and bystanders shout for second to leave anchor clipped. Second complies, lowers off. Big sigh of relief. I've watched this happen twice at the gym I go to.
Yup, I always remind my second when he / she are climbing after I lead. It's usually a funny conversation that ensues, but I always say it with a laugh and a gut-check at the same time. It can happen to anyone.
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 9:20 PM
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bent_gate wrote: olderic wrote: In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole. You don't have to post anything on it. That's fine. But with limited and even wrong information (like weapons of mass destruction), people are still going to spend time speculating and discussing it among themselves. In both constructive and non-constructive manners. It's what people do. So now you are going to withhold information, and then criticize others for not knowing that information? Perhaps you should only be doing one or the other? So here is my speculation. The kids in these camps are taught to belay, and they have another person back-up the belay by holding the rope. The climber in this situation got to the top of the climb, but that's where it happened. In Rumney, the anchors are equipped with the "quick clip" type of anchors. By accident the girl tops out or moves in a way that pulls the rope out through the gates. The belayer is surprised that she is falling because they are still on belay. She puts out a hand to try to catch the head of the falling girl. [/speculation] and [/end_scene]
Rumney's quick clips have gates that are like wire gate biners..(and heavy action too.. hard to unclip even using your hands) they are not the scary "open shuts" with the _) like loop to put the rope over. Also i don't' think this group would be TRing directly off the fixed gear in the first place.
I think there are too many unknowns to really even speculate how things went wrong.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 9:26 PM
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In reply to: "olderic" In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole.
With so many expert flamers on RC, I would keep such information as I done it myself 100s of times.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jul 18, 2007, 9:27 PM)
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dingus
Jul 18, 2007, 9:27 PM
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Boy the mod Chuff Puffery in this thread is simply unbearable!
DMT
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dingus
Jul 18, 2007, 9:30 PM
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hummm wrote: Why does every post become a Majid piss match.....  I remember when Majid added his comment with those injury reports, you guys had problems, now he just quote and post, you still have problem with him. So again, he is damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t. Yeah, I understand sometime his comments come off as flaming, but as far as this post, I don't see he did anything deserved to get flame on. Can’t we all just have some self control?! (including me)
They pick on him yet he's playing them like fine ivories.
Makes me laugh, the anti-majid chuff puffery! He's like that commercial jingle everyone hates yet they have to listen each time it comes round, like probing a bad tooth, just making sure its still bad.
Majid is the bad tooth to several folks on this board. He likes it that way.
DMT
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wideguy
Jul 18, 2007, 9:43 PM
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Much as I sometime disagree with Majid's posting habits, I do have to wonder... if someone else, had posted the exact same stories and links under the heading "Girl falls at Rumney" and finished it with "Don't know all the details but figured some of you might know her and hadn't heard yet. I hope she's allright." Would there have been so much made of it? I tend to doubt it. Majid didn't try to analyze the scenarios (This time) he didn't cast blame on the instructors or the school (This time) he didn't even say "Thank god she was wearing a helmet" (This time... and thankfully she was.)
Majid, an opinion on your question. Why? Because you do seems to post only in injuries. You seem to scour the web for bad news in an effort to be the first to break it here. You do have a history of placing blame in these accidents based solely on information contained in news reports. And your language differences do sometimes make you hard to understand, which may be leading to people misunderstanding your intentions or opinions when you post. And you never admit you're wrong. I don't believe I have ever seen you say "You know *****, I never thought of it that way. Maybe you have a point."
BUt that's just my $.02
(This post was edited by wideguy on Jul 18, 2007, 9:46 PM)
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bent_gate
Jul 18, 2007, 9:46 PM
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dominic7 wrote: olderic wrote: In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole. Good for you. I had a pretty serious fall last year and within a few hours of decking I felt majid's clammy hands pawing at me. He would send me wheedling PMs pumping me for details at a point when I was still really shaken up by the incident. I responded to the thread and regretted it pretty quickly.
You must not know about Majid's day job:
The Angel of Death anxiously awaits
writing your obituary!
(This post was edited by bent_gate on Jul 18, 2007, 9:46 PM)
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dominic7
Jul 18, 2007, 9:50 PM
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bent_gate wrote: dominic7 wrote: olderic wrote: In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole. Good for you. I had a pretty serious fall last year and within a few hours of decking I felt majid's clammy hands pawing at me. He would send me wheedling PMs pumping me for details at a point when I was still really shaken up by the incident. I responded to the thread and regretted it pretty quickly. You must not know about Majid's day job:
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=1149;[/image]
The Angel of Death anxiously awaits
writing your obituary!
When you are pumped full of pain meds and wondering why the fuck you're alive that's a pretty accurate description of what he seems like...
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 9:56 PM
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dingus wrote: They pick on him yet he's playing them like fine ivories. .... Majid is the bad tooth to several folks on this board. He likes it that way. DMT
He is a troll.. he trolls the I/A forum.. classy.. getting people pissed off when dealing with hurt or dead (potentially) friends.
He is a troll.. yet when he posts on other subjects he demands respect with his so called SAR credentials. Sometimes he's really trying to make a conversation.. sometimes he is trolling once again. who is to know anymore?
Why should we try to enter into an honest debate/discussion with someone who refuses to be wrong, refuses to accept any one elses view. He asks questions and then tears people apart for their answers..
you'll notice my first post in this thread was about the accident.. and was replied to incorrectly and with complete speculation by majid with a "quote" (that i couldn't find in any of the articles and was backwards so he created it himself)
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extremrocker12
Jul 18, 2007, 10:25 PM
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I have a question for you all. Who here would try to catch one of their friends in a 50ft fall. Fu*k that. Im not going to even try that. Those were some pretty rad girls.
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majid_sabet
Jul 18, 2007, 11:15 PM
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dingus wrote: hummm wrote: Why does every post become a Majid piss match..... I remember when Majid added his comment with those injury reports, you guys had problems, now he just quote and post, you still have problem with him. So again, he is damned if he did, and damned if he didn’t. Yeah, I understand sometime his comments come off as flaming, but as far as this post, I don't see he did anything deserved to get flame on. Can’t we all just have some self control?! (including me) They pick on him yet he's playing them like fine ivories. Makes me laugh, the anti-majid chuff puffery! He's like that commercial jingle everyone hates yet they have to listen each time it comes round, like probing a bad tooth, just making sure its still bad. Majid is the bad tooth to several folks on this board. He likes it that way. DMT
Dingus
And do not forget that these flamers keep following me in every post and want to jump on me on every chance they get.by the way, 95 % of them are from the other side or rockies toward Atlantic.
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crimpandgo
Jul 18, 2007, 11:15 PM
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extremrocker12 wrote: I have a question for you all. Who here would try to catch one of their friends in a 50ft fall. Fu*k that. Im not going to even try that. Those were some pretty rad girls.
Have you let your climbing partners know this piece of information?
(This post was edited by crimpandgo on Jul 18, 2007, 11:17 PM)
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time2clmb
Jul 18, 2007, 11:21 PM
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chadnsc wrote: I wasn't referring to the linked article. I was referring to your poor use of the written English language in your witty (snicker) prose found elsewhere on this site.
Personal attacks based on some ones written english shows you for the ignorant intollerant racist that you are. Not everyone has to have 100% perfect english. Get over yourself hick.
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jakedatc
Jul 18, 2007, 11:26 PM
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In reply to: toward Atlantic.
I'm not sure what you mean by that but...
It's is EXACTLY where Rumney is.. Basically my home crag, Basically kids from the gym i climb at.. I have a slightly more vested interest in this accident than you do.
you can quit baiting me though.. as soon as JT gets is PM i'll be on the fast track to killfiling you once again and see what threads are like without so much choss
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limeydave
Jul 18, 2007, 11:41 PM
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olderic wrote: This thread is a perfect example of the problems with rc.com and with electronic messages boards in general. People shoot from the hip without having any idea of what they are talking about. Misinterpreting things (what does "unclip" mean?). Trying to analyze what was done wrong without even knowing what was done. I really think it serves little purpose to report these type of stories until after the facts are known and the outcome is no longer in doubt. For decades the stogy old AAC has published "Accidents in NA Mountaineering". You all should look at that as an example of how accidents should be reported and analyzed. In this case I know most of the people involved, including the adult leaders. I have a pretty clear understanding of what happened. And I am not going to post a damn thing about it in this rat hole.
Elements of this site may be a rat like, but one redeeming feature is the eventually accurate safety advice.
Refusing to share infomation based on an emotional reaction is, of course, your choice.
I sure wouldn't want to be your conscience if someone decks this weekend that might not if you'd give up the info though.....
Glad the girl is ok - belayer does deserve a medal.
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quiteatingmysteak
Jul 18, 2007, 11:48 PM
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jakedatc wrote: In reply to: toward Atlantic. I'm not sure what you mean by that but...
The sooner the sun hits you, the worse your sense of irony becomes, appearantly :D
In reply to: Posting in a Majid Thread.
-Majid Fanclub President out
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limeydave
Jul 18, 2007, 11:55 PM
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quiteatingmysteak wrote: jakedatc wrote: In reply to: toward Atlantic. I'm not sure what you mean by that but... The sooner the sun hits you, the worse your sense of irony becomes, appearantly :D In reply to: Posting in a Majid Thread. -Majid Fanclub President out
The Brits own irony. Your statement is about as accurate as a Maj.... ok, I won't say it.
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el_layclimber
Jul 18, 2007, 11:55 PM
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Steak,
I see that you are not only a member but also the president of the Majid fanclub. What do I need to do to join? What are the perks and benefits (I'm a climber, will settle for schwag - a Majid sticker and 8" of supertape is cool)? Is there a membership fee?
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majid_sabet
Jul 19, 2007, 12:06 AM
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update
July 18, 2007 1705 PST
Update: Cranston girl who fell in N.H. is home safe
A Cranston girl who fell while rock climbing in New Hampshire yesterday is home safe with a few bumps and bruises, according to her mother and grandfather.
Hannah Meharg, 12, fell more than 40 feet from a cliff in the White Mountains yesterday while participating in a weeklong rock-climbing camp operated by the Rhode Island Rock Gym of Lincoln.
Meharg, an avid rock climber who attends the Jewish Community Day School in Providence, had reached the top of a cliff at Rumney Rocks and fell while preparing to descend, landing partially on another child, according to Lt. Todd Bogardus of the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department. The other child was not seriously injured.
Rescuers believe Meharg, one of 10 children on the expedition, fell after mistakenly unclipping herself from her safety gear.
Crews passed her stretcher over steep boulders through rugged terrain to get her to the hospital. John Meharg, Hannah’s grandfather, said X-rays revealed no fractures. But he said she has scrapes and bruises on her head, face and legs and some pain in her back.
Hannah’s mother Ronni Meharg, who drove to New Hampshire last night to pick up her daughter, said she did not blame the camp operators for Hannah’s fall, calling it a “total, total fluke accident.”
She said her daughter loves rock climbing and does not plan to give it up. Hannah’s grandfather did not seem so sure about the wisdom of that decision, but was unwilling to intervene.
“I’m her grandfather,” he said, with a chuckle. “I don’t think I get to have an opinion.”
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Re: [jakedatc] 12-year-old climber fell 50 feet
[
