|
mturner
Oct 31, 2007, 11:55 PM
Post #76 of 84
(1414 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2005
Posts: 980
|
jt512 wrote: elepita wrote: Thank you all guys for your comments, I am sorry I did not reply sooner but I dont have a in front of the computer job (english teacher for proffesionals - in Spain) and I cannot check rockclimbing.com so often. [..] Thanks again and if you have more tips, keep them coming! I have a tip: Don't admit that you are an English teacher in a sentence that is ungrammatical, poorly punctuated, and contains a misspelled word. Jay
I so saw this coming.
edit: PTFTW! I'll take it anyway I can
(This post was edited by mturner on Oct 31, 2007, 11:56 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
fluxus
Nov 4, 2007, 6:59 AM
Post #77 of 84
(1378 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 947
|
Wild thread.
1) To who ever it was that said Lynn doesn't dyno. Curt already corrected this absurd notion, but I have to play pile on because its so far from the truth. I've seen lynn do down right wacky dynos where no one was expecting them. I've seen Lynn dyno every single move on a route. The same goes for Mia Axon (who is 2 inches shorted than Lynn) and Scott Franklyn, Etc Etc Etc.
2) As for which is better dynamic or static movement? Both are completely necessary in climbing, but in so many situations using momentum will be the more efficient way to do an individual move. So many climbers are still locked into the bogus idea that in climbing static movement is generally better. There is no mechanical basis for such a generalization, and it needs to die. The only types of moves that I know for sure must be done statically are extreme cases of off-set balance. In these cases it's just too difficult to control momentum. But that's it, most other situations will probably benefit from momentum, but its not always necessary. In many moves it's a matter of personal choice, individual movement history, and aesthetics.
|
|
|
|
|
csproul
Nov 5, 2007, 6:13 PM
Post #78 of 84
(1328 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1769
|
I think the value placed on static climbing has largely come from the trad(itional) history of climbing. When placing value on a ground up ascent with gear there is some benefit to being able to static moves and thereby able to reverse moves as needed. This also provides an added safety benefit in the realm of marginal gear. This has nothing to do with whether or not it is more efficient or not, but might explain why climbers seem to value static climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
fluxus
Nov 5, 2007, 6:34 PM
Post #79 of 84
(1324 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 947
|
Yes, I'm very familiar with that idea, which may have some merit, but In my experience its less about pragmatics of control and and more about the aesthetics of feeling stronger than the move, and stronger than our friends. Moves that look powerful and controlled seem to be highly valued, despite there often being inefficient. American climbers have yet to learn the real values of movement.
|
|
|
|
|
roy_hinkley_jr
Nov 5, 2007, 6:35 PM
Post #80 of 84
(1323 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652
|
Not to mention that some climbers still want to be active when they're 50 and 60. Hard to do if you've destroyed your elbows and shoulders from years of dynos.
|
|
|
|
|
fluxus
Nov 5, 2007, 7:02 PM
Post #81 of 84
(1318 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 947
|
I doubt that dynos are any harder on the elbows and shoulders than, locking off is. I'd argue that locking off is far harder on the elbows than dynos are considering the pressure that repeatedly locking off puts on the medial epicondyle. (specifically, the more acute the angle in the elbow, and the steeper the rock, the greater the strain on the attachment of the wrist and finger flexors at the medial epicondyle.)
|
|
|
|
|
kriso9tails
Nov 6, 2007, 1:38 AM
Post #82 of 84
(1291 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2001
Posts: 7772
|
Soooo.... back to the mechanics of dynoing: Well, it's hard to describe just from thinking back on it since it's become a very natural movement. I'll try, but it's best if someone can show you. That said, if someone can't comfortably dyno at least the distance from jug to jug equal to their height, it's probably not worth asking them.
From the start, set your hands comfortably on the start holds. Choose where to place your feet -- this is probably one of the most important things you can do. You want to strike a balance between three things: high feet, positive holds and a comfortable stance.
What your legs are going to do: Basically, think of it as standing up really fast more so than jumping. For me, I'm 6'2" so from the tips of my toes to the tips of my fingers extended over my head, so if it's a 6' dyno and my feet are set 2' below my hands, but the time I've reached up, I'm pretty much there, so there isn't really all that much jumping involved.
Keep pushing with consistent force as your legs straighten. If you can reach without cutting feet then do so, but other wise, at the last moment before they leave, flick your toes down and out against the hold(s). It'll give you a little push (or a least that's what it feels like), but mostly it will keep your body in line.
With your arms: From the starting position you're going to briefly pull hard with your arms through to your back. After this initial burst, you don't need to pull yourself up anymore. What you do need your arms to do is guide your body. It helps to think of moving your body parallel with the wall at all times, even though it won't actually be parallel for the first half of the dyno.
Once your body is pretty much parallel with the wall you're going to shoot one or both hands up towards the finish hold, and again, flick your fingers down and out against the hold(s) they're leaving to keep you aligned.
When you go to actually catch the hold, try to do it when your body is moving the least. In order to start going down, your body has to stop going up, so if you can catch the hold around that transition point all you need to do is let your weight sink back onto the hold an stick with it.
One hand or two?
Depends on the problem. With One handed dynos it's much easier to control your body and keep the swing in check. With two hands it's (generally) easier to actually grab and stick the hold(s). I tend to generally go one-handed if it's a good hold and two handed if it's a slope or on the sharper side.
Tips:
IMO, don't pump or practice swing. It doesn't build momentum and it wastes energy. It also becomes a habit and it will start to feel like you can't send unless you pump a few times first. Set your body, set your mind (sounds cheesy, I know) and go.
This goes for a lot of things in climbing, but inhale deep before you throw, exhale or even grunt as you throw.
Keep your body and your movements as accurate and in control as possible. Getting tot he hold is one thing; sticking it is another. That said, you're going to want to tense your core (and lower I suppose) to keep the swing in check and your arms will also lock in as soon as you can do so with control, but obviously you don't want to be so rigid that you pull every muscle in your body. It's a balance between limiting, absorbing and controlling the force of the throw and the resulting swing should you stick the hold (although there's not always all that much swing).
When you're all good with that, the next step is just that. For really long dynos you can pop a foot up to a higher hold in the middle of the dyno and push off again. It takes coordination that I don't seem to have yet as I've only pulled this off on a couple of dynos that were super juggy.
That's all i got; take it with a grain of salt I guess. I know how dynos work for me, but I'm not sure it translates exactly to all body types (though I've always assumed that it did).
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Nov 6, 2007, 9:30 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
ghisino
Nov 9, 2007, 3:51 PM
Post #83 of 84
(1236 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 249
|
Nice tips kriso!!!
even if I wouldn't restrict the whole category of dynamic moves to big jumps fron and to very positive holds...that way I'd have to say I never dyno :D
btw
@everyone
interesting speculation on 8a.nu on why competiton athletes favor static moves...http://www.8a.nu/...%3D3234%26UserOK%3D1
note it was badly translated from some nordic language...swedish I think.
In short they point out 3 reasons :
-dynamic is easy to do wrong, static leaves much more margin for error (remember they're onsighting...)
-dynamic puts lots of load on your forearms in the "grab" phase, while static is harder on big muscles and easier on finger/forearms (makes sense to me).
Since forearms are the weak link of the chain, they want to get them pumped as late as possible...so they'll start dynoing only when they'll be too tired in the big muscles to lockoff and go static. (again, remember the king of things they're climbing...endurance stuff, many sustained moves...)
-by going static they can set a climbing pace where the moving hand gets a micro-rest before grabbing the next hold (again, this is an advantage for that specific kind of climbing)
they also say that as an evolving climber it's better to put emphasis in learnin dynos and developing finger strenght, because they're the most difficult things...while on the contrary, you can get more big-muscle power pretty easily whenever you need it.
makes sense to me, even if it isn't a scientific article...what you think?
|
|
|
|
|
mturner
Nov 9, 2007, 3:59 PM
Post #84 of 84
(1232 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 17, 2005
Posts: 980
|
ghisino wrote: they also say that as an evolving climber it's better to put emphasis in learnin dynos and developing finger strenght, because they're the most difficult things...while on the contrary, you can get more big-muscle power pretty easily whenever you need it.
Dynoing has more to do with power and static movement has more to do with muscle endurance and strength.
|
|
|
|
|
|
