|
jarekt
Oct 17, 2008, 9:05 PM
Post #51 of 64
(7873 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 1
|
Just to inject some more facts into the discussion. I just talked with Marcy and she is doing fine. She was flown to a hospital in Morgantown in WV, where she also normally works. She has a multiple broken bones and fractures of lower back, pelvis, wrist and sternum, but she is expected to fully recover.
She described the accident as "brain fart" partially caused by exhaustion after doing a very challenging route. Another contributing factor was lack of communication with the partner who did not fully understand this complicated procedure and said so beforehand.
I occasionally climb with Marcy for about a decade and she is quite experienced and concerned about safety. It sounds like she was very lucky to survive this 50-60 ft fall and lucky to receive such prompt and competent rescue. At the time she was not wearing a helmet, as few people do while top-roping.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 18, 2008, 1:34 AM
Post #52 of 64
(7840 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
jarekt wrote: Just to inject some more facts into the discussion. I just talked with Marcy and she is doing fine. She was flown to a hospital in Morgantown in WV, where she also normally works. She has a multiple broken bones and fractures of lower back, pelvis, wrist and sternum, but she is expected to fully recover.
It's so good to hear a positive outcome from an accident this season.
And yes, I reckon that in the situation this is a pretty good outcome!
|
|
|
|
|
billcoe_
Oct 18, 2008, 3:38 AM
Post #53 of 64
(7815 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
|
majid_sabet wrote: .....that would be the most stupidest system I have ever heard cause chances of cross loading the biner with such knot is highly possible during fall . the tension of the upper rope (belay)and weight of the lower rope(free section) may keep the knot in the center of the biner's gate if climber happens to fall in between the draws.
Fine, imagine 2 carabiners, opposed and reversed. Now do you feel better?
Good.
|
|
|
|
|
majid_sabet
Oct 18, 2008, 3:43 AM
Post #54 of 64
(7810 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 8390
|
billcoe_ wrote: majid_sabet wrote: .....that would be the most stupidest system I have ever heard cause chances of cross loading the biner with such knot is highly possible during fall . the tension of the upper rope (belay)and weight of the lower rope(free section) may keep the knot in the center of the biner's gate if climber happens to fall in between the draws. Fine, imagine 2 carabiners, opposed and reversed. Now do you feel better? Good.
Bill
Thanks, that is good idea, how come I did not think of that ?
Dumb Sorbat
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Oct 18, 2008, 7:52 AM
Post #55 of 64
(7761 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
Can someone who knows Marcy please PM me? I know a Marcy from Morgantown who climbs, and want to know if it's the same person.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
billcoe_
Oct 18, 2008, 3:16 PM
Post #56 of 64
(7723 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 4694
|
majid_sabet wrote: Bill Thanks, that is good idea, how come I did not think of that ? Dumb Sorbat
Well it's true that I'm here to help!  I don't like clipping in with biners either, but have done it on occasions. My main point Majid, was that the clip in method was not detailed by the folks who were there enough to judge how they were clipped, and it was not a causation to the accident either. So it doesn't matter at all for both of those reasons.
My suspicions is that inexperienced belayer contributed to it, but even deeply experienced folks make easy mistakes at times. Glad that Marcy is going to pull out of it. I've heard that deep, loud, whumping sound of a body angering into dirt from up high, and not seen anyone survive it. So big time congrats to Marcy!
Utahgirl, you can't change what the past was, but you can certainly do so for tomorrow. Learning every scrap and tidbit of info is critical to stay safe in this game, and sometimes that's not enough either. I wish you both peace of mind on this issue, because it's true you won't ever forget the sounds and smells...ever. However, you can manage the memory if you choose (and you should) to do so.
Good luck to you both.
|
|
|
|
|
mr8615
Oct 19, 2008, 7:04 PM
Post #57 of 64
(7666 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 1032
|
I just got off the phone with Marcy, she seemed to be in great spirits, all things considered. She wanted me to pass on her thanks to all of you who have been so supportive. She's an amazingly strong person and is taking things one minute at a time. She said she's able to put weight on one leg, but not quite both yet, which is amazing news. Hopefully we'll know more after a few weeks of healing.
Mark
(This post was edited by mr8615 on Oct 19, 2008, 7:05 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
redpointron
Oct 20, 2008, 2:24 AM
Post #58 of 64
(7613 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 12, 2003
Posts: 1170
|
thank you mark for the update. i am a red river regular and was out of town for the past two weeks. i was floored when i saw this. if you talk with her again, please give her my best. btw, i passed the info on to reese.
get well soon marcy.
redpointRON
|
|
|
|
|
wasatchchic
Oct 28, 2008, 6:54 PM
Post #59 of 64
(7385 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 7
|
Whew... sites like this can be so frustrating, but I came back to post up the full report.
It is really frustrating to read people write that I need to learn more safety techniques. Folks, I can't go off belay and switch ropes unless my climber says so. Period. My job as a belayer is to listen to my climber and do what they say... and that is what I did. i am not saying it is Marcy's fault, but merely that people need to remember that I can't just switch ropes. I can't even see what a climber is doing at the chains... she could have been adding draws. I don't know!! My job is to listen and talk to her and when she says she is ok and to take, that is what I did.
Lastly, this was human error. Neither Marcy nor I are beginners, nor do either of us disregard safety. It was an accident.
The most interesting thing about this scenario is how many stories of folks decking are out there. Seriously... I have had at least 8 close friends and at least 10 more people at the Red who were in a decking accidents as well. Even when people have been climbing 10+ years, accidents happen. Reading this thread it seems that many of you forget it could happen to ANY of you. We are ALL human, we make mistakes and the key is to just always remember to double check and communicate. Three of my friends who have been in accidents have all been climbing close to 15 years each, I have been climbing avidly for about 6, climbing on average 4 days a week at home. Accidents happen.
Here is the full report: http://www.cragbaby.com/2008/10/28/the-climbing-accident/
I borrowed an image that was posted here on the thread. Hope that was ok.
(This post was edited by wasatchchic on Oct 28, 2008, 6:55 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
jdefazio
Oct 28, 2008, 7:11 PM
Post #60 of 64
(7371 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 29, 2007
Posts: 228
|
Clicky
|
|
|
|
|
AntinJ
Oct 28, 2008, 8:13 PM
Post #61 of 64
(7331 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 4, 2008
Posts: 475
|
First and foremost; my sympathies for those involved in the accident.
Secondly, I have only been climbing since June, so I apologize in advance for not understanding the rope system here. Could someone please explain why you would split the rope, instead of just lowering from the top and leaving the TR set-up for a normal cleaning scenario? Wouldn't tying into the middle of the rope be more difficult in several ways? i.e. extra weight, task of trailing/managing the rope, more variables in the system to account for, more slack to pull through at the top? If this is the wrong place for this question, I apologize, but I'm sure someone out there would be willing to tackle it.
Thanks
-J
|
|
|
|
|
jman
Oct 28, 2008, 8:16 PM
Post #62 of 64
(7330 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 438
|
Take a look at the 1st page post by "gothcopter". They explain the scenerio pretty well.
|
|
|
|
|
knieveltech
Oct 28, 2008, 8:27 PM
Post #63 of 64
(7311 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2006
Posts: 1431
|
AntinJ wrote: First and foremost; my sympathies for those involved in the accident. Secondly, I have only been climbing since June, so I apologize in advance for not understanding the rope system here. Could someone please explain why you would split the rope, instead of just lowering from the top and leaving the TR set-up for a normal cleaning scenario? Wouldn't tying into the middle of the rope be more difficult in several ways? i.e. extra weight, task of trailing/managing the rope, more variables in the system to account for, more slack to pull through at the top? If this is the wrong place for this question, I apologize, but I'm sure someone out there would be willing to tackle it. Thanks -J
One key piece of information to keep in mind is a lot of the routes at the Red are seriously overhanging for most if not the entire route. Also, tying into the middle of the rope is definitely more complex than just trailing a second one.
|
|
|
|
|
rminter
Mar 10, 2009, 10:24 PM
Post #64 of 64
(6720 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2009
Posts: 1
|
Rope not long enough?
My very best thoughts and wishes to Marcy and full respect and care to the belay and all involved. This was an accident that started with care and good intentions. There has been a lot of question about how the procedure was intended to work. Assuming the numbers are accurate, the climb is 60' and the direct line back to the belay is more than 40', there is a basic problem with the way the situation is described. A 60 meter rope (200 feet) is not long enough to tie in the center and belay two climbers on the route. After climber “A” comes down, more than 100 feet of rope is out. After climber “B” ties in and climbs there is more than 160 feet of rope out: 60 feet on the ground under the belayer (after belaying climber B), about 50 feet from the belayer to climber “B” and 60 feet that trails climber “B” left in the clips. This leaves 40 feet of rope (or less)to lower the climber after switching sides. This would not be enough rope to lower climber “B” after switching sides. The Belayer would be confused because there would not be enough rope on the other end to lower the climber.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
