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Stick Clip Rules?
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Poll: Stick Clip Rules?
1 bolt? 45 / 68%
2 bolts? 7 / 11%
1/3rd the bolts? 0 / 0%
1/2 the bolts? 1 / 2%
All of them, you still lead it. 13 / 20%
66 total votes
 

N_Oo_B


Nov 21, 2008, 7:22 PM
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Stick Clip Rules?
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How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?


curt


Nov 21, 2008, 7:33 PM
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N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?

I'm pretty sure you can clip the anchors from the ground and it's still a redpoint. After all, sport climbing and top-roping are basically the same thing. Cool

Curt


rtwilli4


Nov 21, 2008, 7:39 PM
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How about zero?

I (we) don't call it clean unless you do it ground up.

Of course we don't really give a fuck what it's called as long as its fun and a little scary.


altelis


Nov 21, 2008, 7:52 PM
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How many real votes did you expect?Tongue

Clearly you can stick clip 1.75659493039238384748489393202030939484857748383292 % of the bolts on a route for a red point.

however if you clip 1.756594930392383847484893932020309394848577483832921 % of the bolts on a route its considered a magenta-point


N_Oo_B


Nov 21, 2008, 7:57 PM
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We got some biters tonight! keep the votes coming


notapplicable


Nov 21, 2008, 8:56 PM
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N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?


0


Lazlo


Nov 21, 2008, 9:03 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?


0
agreed


curt


Nov 21, 2008, 9:06 PM
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N_Oo_B wrote:
We got some biters tonight! keep the votes coming

Bite this...

Curt


Partner mr8615


Nov 21, 2008, 9:22 PM
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Seems like the idea behind stick clipping is avoiding a ground fall. So avoid a ground fall. Call it what you want.


USnavy


Nov 21, 2008, 9:26 PM
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I say you can clip the first bolt. Anything after that is aid climbing.


dj69


Nov 21, 2008, 9:34 PM
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I'd say one at most, only to avoid a fall that will lead to serious injury.


climbingaggie03


Nov 21, 2008, 9:40 PM
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sport climbing is neither, clip them all


jakedatc


Nov 21, 2008, 10:38 PM
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1-2 depending on the route. Usually it's one but i did the 2nd bolt instead of the first due to the bolt placement once. didn't effect the route any.

aggie "Sport: 5.10c" that's it?

for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s


ryanb


Nov 21, 2008, 11:45 PM
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In many areas, stick clips are frowned upon and the accepted practice is to "boulder" to the first bolt.

This of course involves creating a stack of small to medium rocks, or "boulders", one can stand on to reach the bolt.

In areas where natural "boulders" are sparse or particularly heavy you may wish to employ special thick foam "boulder mats" for this purpose though in a pinch logs, spare tires, well trained dogs or the hood of your car will work equally well.


Partner angry


Nov 22, 2008, 2:26 AM
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Camhead to thread! Camhead to thread!


Partner j_ung


Nov 22, 2008, 5:35 AM
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mr8615 wrote:
Seems like the idea behind stick clipping is avoiding a ground fall. So avoid a ground fall. Call it what you want.

I'll go with his answer. Smile


budman


Nov 22, 2008, 5:39 AM
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ZERO Fool! It's a Pink point. Question asked at the NEW, if someone placed all your gear on a trad climb would it be a pink point? LOL and we all had another shot and a beer and proceeded to school the kid.


Partner j_ung


Nov 22, 2008, 6:36 AM
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Meh, sport climbing is essentially one big compromise of style (and ethics) to achieve a higher difficulty. (Please don't take that as me passing judgment. I'm not. I sport climb some, too, and like it just fine.) I don't see anything disingenuous with sticking the first bolt on a sport climb and calling your send a redpoint. Hell, "redpoint" is also a compromise of style.

But whatever! If there's one thing I love about climbing, it's the freedom I have to create my own version of the sport.


notapplicable


Nov 22, 2008, 6:51 AM
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angry wrote:
Camhead to thread! Camhead to thread!


Is that who was corrupting Sungam at the RRG the other day?? Friends don't let friends stick clip!


budman


Nov 22, 2008, 7:02 AM
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Hey j_ung! If you see Roger say Hi - Bud from Moab(the Nancy and Greg connection) he will know. As to ethics, call it what it is, no half truths and don't call it what it ain't. I've gotten pretty good at aiding what I can't free climb or am too fraidy cat to commit to. Lost my rule book, was recalling pink point from memory. But as I'm getting up in years my memory is probably failing me. One thing I still remember is how to smile when I'm stick clipping that first bolt.


granite_grrl


Nov 22, 2008, 8:26 AM
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How ever many you need to keep it safe.

In other words....it depends.


Partner j_ung


Nov 22, 2008, 8:30 AM
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Will do, Bud from Moab. Smile


N_Oo_B


Nov 22, 2008, 9:50 AM
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wow, that video is wild.


notapplicable


Nov 22, 2008, 10:03 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s



Holy crap the rock can break!! Shocked

Thats it, I'm done with climbing, this shit is too dangerous.


USnavy


Nov 22, 2008, 11:03 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
1-2 depending on the route. Usually it's one but i did the 2nd bolt instead of the first due to the bolt placement once. didn't effect the route any.

aggie "Sport: 5.10c" that's it?

for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s

Just glue it back on, it will be ok. :)


jakedatc


Nov 22, 2008, 11:32 AM
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notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s



Holy crap the rock can break!! Shocked

Thats it, I'm done with climbing, this shit is too dangerous.

uh huh.. if you want to do a jump start to what looked to be solid squamish granite and have that happen to you without a bolt clipped by all means go for it.


styndall


Nov 22, 2008, 12:09 PM
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j_ung wrote:
Meh, sport climbing is essentially one big compromise of style (and ethics) to achieve a higher difficulty. (Please don't take that as me passing judgment. I'm not. I sport climb some, too, and like it just fine.) I don't see anything disingenuous with sticking the first bolt on a sport climb and calling your send a redpoint. Hell, "redpoint" is also a compromise of style.

But whatever! If there's one thing I love about climbing, it's the freedom I have to create my own version of the sport.

This site needs some kind of 'dangerous topic in the the thread' smiley, maybe some kind of tiny can full of red wigglers.

That said, I'm all for stick clipping if the bottom bit is scary.


jt512


Nov 22, 2008, 12:48 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
1-2 depending on the route. Usually it's one but i did the 2nd bolt instead of the first due to the bolt placement once. didn't effect the route any.

aggie "Sport: 5.10c" that's it?

for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s

In a situation like that, I'd normally stick clip two bolts.


jakedatc


Nov 22, 2008, 12:59 PM
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hehe the fat traddies wouldn't be able to make the leap.. :)


notapplicable


Nov 22, 2008, 1:33 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s



Holy crap the rock can break!! Shocked

Thats it, I'm done with climbing, this shit is too dangerous.

uh huh.. if you want to do a jump start to what looked to be solid squamish granite and have that happen to you without a bolt clipped by all means go for it.


Meh, had the route been 18 ft. tall or lead to protectable climbing there would be no bolts and the jump start would still have been necessary.


joeforte


Nov 22, 2008, 1:45 PM
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Yeah why no "0" option??

I vote 0


jakedatc


Nov 22, 2008, 1:57 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s



Holy crap the rock can break!! Shocked

Thats it, I'm done with climbing, this shit is too dangerous.

uh huh.. if you want to do a jump start to what looked to be solid squamish granite and have that happen to you without a bolt clipped by all means go for it.


Meh, had the route been 18 ft. tall or lead to protectable climbing there would be no bolts and the jump start would still have been necessary.

huh? if it was a 5.6 jug haul over sand it wouldn't need a clip either.. whats your point? (maybe i dont get what you're saying)

Joe i'm agreeing to disagree with you on this thread k ? haha


clausti


Nov 22, 2008, 2:13 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s



Holy crap the rock can break!! Shocked

Thats it, I'm done with climbing, this shit is too dangerous.

uh huh.. if you want to do a jump start to what looked to be solid squamish granite and have that happen to you without a bolt clipped by all means go for it.


Meh, had the route been 18 ft. tall or lead to protectable climbing there would be no bolts and the jump start would still have been necessary.

and the climber mighta been dead. dunno if you noticed, but it bounced off the rope, is the only reason the death flake wasn't chasing him to the ground.


notapplicable


Nov 22, 2008, 2:39 PM
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clausti wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
for the non believers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARLlaGZI-5s



Holy crap the rock can break!! Shocked

Thats it, I'm done with climbing, this shit is too dangerous.

uh huh.. if you want to do a jump start to what looked to be solid squamish granite and have that happen to you without a bolt clipped by all means go for it.


Meh, had the route been 18 ft. tall or lead to protectable climbing there would be no bolts and the jump start would still have been necessary.

and the climber mighta been dead. dunno if you noticed, but it bounced off the rope, is the only reason the death flake wasn't chasing him to the ground.


Yeah, he and his parter were pretty damn lucky thats for sure.

Most routes with loose rock potential are not going to have pre-clippable bolts to guard the way and Jake's post made it sound like anybody who uses what, in his own words, looked to be a solid granite flake are foolish for doing so.

So yeah I think I will continue to climb on holds that could break without having a "bolt clipped". Last I checked that was called rock climbing.


Oh and I'm just trolling a stick clipping thread so WinkPirateTongueAngelicSmile or which ever one is appropriate to show this is all in jest.


camhead


Nov 22, 2008, 2:49 PM
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I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.


gogounou


Nov 22, 2008, 3:10 PM
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camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.

Excellent. I always knew that my 25m stickclip would come in handy.


Partner angry


Nov 22, 2008, 3:13 PM
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What?


joeforte


Nov 23, 2008, 7:33 AM
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jakedatc wrote:
Joe i'm agreeing to disagree with you on this thread k ? haha

Never fails Jake, I can always count on you for a counter-argument in a stick clip thread! Tongue

BTW, you'll be happy to hear that I actually stick clipped a route recently at Summersville. It had a back-breaking fall right off the ground. I didn't call it a redpoint though (mainly because it was a 13? and I flailed hardcore!)

Still, I would like a re-vote with a 0 option.


clausti


Nov 23, 2008, 7:56 AM
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joeforte wrote:
jakedatc wrote:
Joe i'm agreeing to disagree with you on this thread k ? haha

Never fails Jake, I can always count on you for a counter-argument in a stick clip thread! Tongue

BTW, you'll be happy to hear that I actually stick clipped a route recently at Summersville. It had a back-breaking fall right off the ground. I didn't call it a redpoint though (mainly because it was a 13? and I flailed hardcore!)

Still, I would like a re-vote with a 0 option.

the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.


scottydo


Nov 23, 2008, 11:42 AM
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N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?

0


joeforte


Nov 23, 2008, 8:12 PM
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clausti wrote:
the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.

I'm not sure what route you're talking about, but the climb I was on had no vertical intro at all. I don't know the name of it, but some mutant 15 year old local told me it was a 13b/c. It started on a horizontal roof above a large nasty boulder. The first 2 bolts were fixed draws, so I lasso-clipped to avoid the spine snapper.

Thanks clausti, but I still vote 0

Edited cuz I just looked it up, Deep Throat 13c


(This post was edited by joeforte on Nov 23, 2008, 8:21 PM)


notapplicable


Nov 23, 2008, 9:38 PM
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camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.


SlySly

Nicely done sir, it would appear idle hands do in fact do the devils work.


donald949


Nov 23, 2008, 11:06 PM
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Re: [camhead] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.
I've been known to go one or two moves up, place a cam up high, and clip it for my somewhat shorter partner. Just messing around and cragging though.
Don


chossmonkey


Nov 24, 2008, 5:23 AM
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Re: [donald949] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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donald949 wrote:
camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.
I've been known to go one or two moves up, place a cam up high, and clip it for my somewhat shorter partner. Just messing around and cragging though.
Don
Enabler!!!!


clausti


Nov 24, 2008, 6:20 AM
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Re: [joeforte] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.

I'm not sure what route you're talking about, but the climb I was on had no vertical intro at all. I don't know the name of it, but some mutant 15 year old local told me it was a 13b/c. It started on a horizontal roof above a large nasty boulder. The first 2 bolts were fixed draws, so I lasso-clipped to avoid the spine snapper.

Thanks clausti, but I still vote 0

Edited cuz I just looked it up, Deep Throat 13c


mah bad. looked at your climbing log and figured that people who climb 5.10 and say they got on a .13 at summersville tried apollo.


hansundfritz


Nov 24, 2008, 6:23 AM
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Re: [ryanb] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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ryanb wrote:
In many areas, stick clips are frowned upon and the accepted practice is to "boulder" to the first bolt.

This of course involves creating a stack of small to medium rocks, or "boulders", one can stand on to reach the bolt.

In areas where natural "boulders" are sparse or particularly heavy you may wish to employ special thick foam "boulder mats" for this purpose though in a pinch logs, spare tires, well trained dogs or the hood of your car will work equally well.

Or you can find me and ask to stand on my #12 Hex.


joeforte


Nov 24, 2008, 6:52 AM
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Re: [clausti] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.

I'm not sure what route you're talking about, but the climb I was on had no vertical intro at all. I don't know the name of it, but some mutant 15 year old local told me it was a 13b/c. It started on a horizontal roof above a large nasty boulder. The first 2 bolts were fixed draws, so I lasso-clipped to avoid the spine snapper.

Thanks clausti, but I still vote 0

Edited cuz I just looked it up, Deep Throat 13c


mah bad. looked at your climbing log and figured that people who climb 5.10 and say they got on a .13 at summersville tried apollo.

Yeah, it's ok. Maybe I should keep up with my climbing log for all the stalkers. I redpoint about 12b/c sport, and onsight 11ish on trad, but that doesn't stop me from trying anything harder. Anyway, I believe I said I FLAILED on the thing, meaning I hung a lot!


clausti


Nov 24, 2008, 7:35 AM
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Re: [joeforte] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.

I'm not sure what route you're talking about, but the climb I was on had no vertical intro at all. I don't know the name of it, but some mutant 15 year old local told me it was a 13b/c. It started on a horizontal roof above a large nasty boulder. The first 2 bolts were fixed draws, so I lasso-clipped to avoid the spine snapper.

Thanks clausti, but I still vote 0

Edited cuz I just looked it up, Deep Throat 13c


mah bad. looked at your climbing log and figured that people who climb 5.10 and say they got on a .13 at summersville tried apollo.

Yeah, it's ok. Maybe I should keep up with my climbing log for all the stalkers. I redpoint about 12b/c sport, and onsight 11ish on trad, but that doesn't stop me from trying anything harder. Anyway, I believe I said I FLAILED on the thing, meaning I hung a lot!

ok see, this is the difference: if i look at your profile on the site it was made at, i am using it in the intended application, which is hardly stalking.

and flailing all over it is usually what 5.10 climbers from PA do, so that part of your post was completely consistent with my deductions.


clausti


Nov 24, 2008, 7:35 AM
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Re: [joeforte] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.

I'm not sure what route you're talking about, but the climb I was on had no vertical intro at all. I don't know the name of it, but some mutant 15 year old local told me it was a 13b/c. It started on a horizontal roof above a large nasty boulder. The first 2 bolts were fixed draws, so I lasso-clipped to avoid the spine snapper.

Thanks clausti, but I still vote 0

Edited cuz I just looked it up, Deep Throat 13c


mah bad. looked at your climbing log and figured that people who climb 5.10 and say they got on a .13 at summersville tried apollo.

Yeah, it's ok. Maybe I should keep up with my climbing log for all the stalkers. I redpoint about 12b/c sport, and onsight 11ish on trad, but that doesn't stop me from trying anything harder. Anyway, I believe I said I FLAILED on the thing, meaning I hung a lot!

ok see, this is the difference: if i look at your profile on the site it was made at, i am using it in the intended application, which is hardly stalking.

and flailing all over it is usually what 5.10 climbers from PA do, so that part of your post was completely consistent with my deductions.


clausti


Nov 24, 2008, 7:35 AM
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Re: [joeforte] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
joeforte wrote:
clausti wrote:
the first bolt on apollo is on the 5.9 vertical intro.

so joeforte votes with stick clipping two bolts.

I'm not sure what route you're talking about, but the climb I was on had no vertical intro at all. I don't know the name of it, but some mutant 15 year old local told me it was a 13b/c. It started on a horizontal roof above a large nasty boulder. The first 2 bolts were fixed draws, so I lasso-clipped to avoid the spine snapper.

Thanks clausti, but I still vote 0

Edited cuz I just looked it up, Deep Throat 13c


mah bad. looked at your climbing log and figured that people who climb 5.10 and say they got on a .13 at summersville tried apollo.

Yeah, it's ok. Maybe I should keep up with my climbing log for all the stalkers. I redpoint about 12b/c sport, and onsight 11ish on trad, but that doesn't stop me from trying anything harder. Anyway, I believe I said I FLAILED on the thing, meaning I hung a lot!

ok see, this is the difference: if i look at your profile on the site it was made at, i am using it in the intended application, which is hardly stalking.

and flailing all over it is usually what 5.10 climbers from PA do, so that part of your post was completely consistent with my deductions.


Gmburns2000


Nov 24, 2008, 7:41 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:


But whatever! If there's one thing I love about climbing, it's the freedom I have to create my own version of the sport.

This is a big sticking point for me. While I personally don't like stick-clipping, it's the freedom to make that choice that is most important to me. Therefore, if you want it to be a red-point with all bolts stick-clipped, then that's your decision. If you don't want it to be a redpoint, then that's your decision, too. if someone gives you shit about it, then kick 'em in the knee cap and steal their gear.


itstoearly


Nov 24, 2008, 7:44 AM
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Re: [N_Oo_B] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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You safety Nazis and your ropes... when you do real climbing (free soloing), silly questions like this become moot.


md3


Nov 24, 2008, 7:47 AM
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Re: [clausti] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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Do what you want. Maybe in a while the person who needs to stick it up today will be able to climb it without any pre-clipping, or maybe it will always be too dangerous for them. The problem is worrying about what other people think of your ascent style,as opposed to your area and route impact ethics. Its a bunch of crap. We all know when we are climbing in our best possible style and when we are doing everything possible to eliminate risk because the route is at the upper end of our abilities. The bogus comparison and pretend competition is just ridiculous.


camhead


Nov 24, 2008, 8:02 AM
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Re: [md3] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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md3 wrote:
Do what you want. Maybe in a while the person who needs to stick it up today will be able to climb it without any pre-clipping, or maybe it will always be too dangerous for them. The problem is worrying about what other people think of your ascent style,as opposed to your area and route impact ethics. Its a bunch of crap. We all know when we are climbing in our best possible style and when we are doing everything possible to eliminate risk because the route is at the upper end of our abilities. The bogus comparison and pretend competition is just ridiculous.

KLAWSTI! CLEAN UP TRIPLECHEESETIT POST NOW! NOW!


chossmonkey


Nov 24, 2008, 9:54 AM
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Re: [clausti] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
......

clausti wrote:
......

clausti wrote:
......


Oh noes!!!

The site is broke and it isn't just double posting anymore!!!


kyote321


Nov 24, 2008, 10:20 AM
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Re: [N_Oo_B] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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it still amazes me that trads want to push their tired ethics on everyone else. if you are bumbling up an 80 degree 5.8 slab then you may not need that first bolt clipped. if you are on a 5.13 sport climb that involves a v6 move off the deck you might need the first, second pre-clipped and all the other clips to make the route safe for you. others will hike the route one day without anything pre-clipped, but on another day might clip everything and think nothing of it. it is about the physical and mental ability to send a sport route, not how much you want to risk going to the hospital on any given day. if you want that, trad climb or do highball boulders.


churningindawake


Nov 24, 2008, 10:29 AM
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Re: [N_Oo_B] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a red point?
I will usually stick clip the first bolt of a route if it is hard getting up to it, as I don't want a broken leg(s) if something happened (hold break, foot slip, etc). I will still call it a red point if I stick the first bolt.


joeforte


Nov 24, 2008, 3:17 PM
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Re: [churningindawake] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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Geeze Clausti, did you really have to rip on me 3 times in a row!? I didn't know Ohio climbers were so cold and ruthless!


clausti


Nov 24, 2008, 3:24 PM
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Re: [joeforte] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
Geeze Clausti, did you really have to rip on me 3 times in a row!? I didn't know Ohio climbers were so cold and ruthless!

no, not really.

you kind of called me a stalker though. Pirate

PiratePirate


kylerose


Nov 24, 2008, 3:27 PM
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Re: [N_Oo_B] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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My answer...what ever you want to do is fine. I have more on my mind then how many bolts a person pre-clips. There is no climbing rule book. Whatever. Be safe and have fun.


(This post was edited by kylerose on Nov 24, 2008, 3:28 PM)


brownie710


Nov 24, 2008, 3:53 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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you can clip as many as you like but just not wearing white after labor day.


notapplicable


Nov 24, 2008, 4:13 PM
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Re: [camhead] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
md3 wrote:
Do what you want. Maybe in a while the person who needs to stick it up today will be able to climb it without any pre-clipping, or maybe it will always be too dangerous for them. The problem is worrying about what other people think of your ascent style,as opposed to your area and route impact ethics. Its a bunch of crap. We all know when we are climbing in our best possible style and when we are doing everything possible to eliminate risk because the route is at the upper end of our abilities. The bogus comparison and pretend competition is just ridiculous.

KLAWSTI! CLEAN UP TRIPLECHEESETIT POST NOW! NOW!


A triple post has to be good for at least a two day banz.


skinnyclimber


Nov 24, 2008, 4:56 PM
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Re: [N_Oo_B] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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What if you only stick clip one bolt, but it happens to be the second bolt. How do I vote for that???


On a more serious note: If I'm sport climbing I clip until the lead is safe. If I want to be bold, I'll go trad climbing.

But this comment only serves to sidetrack us from thread drift....


patmay81


Nov 24, 2008, 5:26 PM
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Re: [scottydo] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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scottydo wrote:
N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?

0
agreed, with every one who said cero. Your at teh crag 2 climb; so sack up, grow a set and climb!


donald949


Nov 24, 2008, 5:44 PM
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Re: [chossmonkey] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
donald949 wrote:
camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.
I've been known to go one or two moves up, place a cam up high, and clip it for my somewhat shorter partner. Just messing around and cragging though.
Don
Enabler!!!!
Tiss tru. But we can't let the spurt klimbers had all de fun. Us turd klimbers gots toes be bads somtime toos. Coarse when I cans clips da furst bolt from de ground, sans stick, dats a litle much.
;D


Lazlo


Nov 24, 2008, 5:49 PM
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Re: [itstoearly] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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itstoearly wrote:
You safety Nazis and your ropes... when you do real climbing (free soloing), silly questions like this become moot.

Aceto? Is that you?


patmay81


Nov 24, 2008, 5:53 PM
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Re: [donald949] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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donald949 wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
donald949 wrote:
camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.
I've been known to go one or two moves up, place a cam up high, and clip it for my somewhat shorter partner. Just messing around and cragging though.
Don
Enabler!!!!
Tiss tru. But we can't let the spurt klimbers had all de fun. Us turd klimbers gots toes be bads somtime toos. Coarse when I cans clips da furst bolt from de ground, sans stick, dats a litle much.
;D
Ive totally rope gunned the first bolt (or piece of pro) for my less confident sister before, but she never takes credit for the red point.


donald949


Nov 24, 2008, 5:55 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] Stick Clip Rules? [In reply to]
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Lazlo wrote:
itstoearly wrote:
You safety Nazis and your ropes... when you do real climbing (free soloing), silly questions like this become moot.

Aceto? Is that you?

Wuz wondering dat me self. Laugh


donald949


Nov 24, 2008, 6:52 PM
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This pic came up in another thread, cross linked here:





phillygoat


Nov 24, 2008, 7:34 PM
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patmay81 wrote:
scottydo wrote:
N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?

0
agreed, with every one who said cero. Your at teh crag 2 climb; so sack up, grow a set and climb!

*snaps stick clip over knee* Dude, you've shown me the error of my ways...


joeforte


Nov 24, 2008, 9:06 PM
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clausti wrote:
joeforte wrote:
Geeze Clausti, did you really have to rip on me 3 times in a row!? I didn't know Ohio climbers were so cold and ruthless!

no, not really.

you kind of called me a stalker though. Pirate

PiratePirate

I'm sorry but I felt threatened by a rock pirate from Ohio! It was all on the defensive, I pinky tricam swear. Angelic


chossmonkey


Nov 25, 2008, 4:06 AM
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donald949 wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
donald949 wrote:
camhead wrote:
I have actually figured out how to use a stick clip to place cams, which is awesome.

I still have ethics, though. I only clip my rope into the FIRST cam that I places. All the others that I place above it from the ground have to get clipped while I climb.

Also, if you can ever reach the anchors of a route with a stickclip, then you have automatically sent the route.
I've been known to go one or two moves up, place a cam up high, and clip it for my somewhat shorter partner. Just messing around and cragging though.
Don
Enabler!!!!
Tiss tru. But we can't let the spurt klimbers had all de fun. Us turd klimbers gots toes be bads somtime toos. Coarse when I cans clips da furst bolt from de ground, sans stick, dats a litle much.
;D



potreroed


Nov 25, 2008, 8:32 AM
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Stick clips are for weenies (or one bolt in very special situations) and we don't need no stinkin' rules.


patmay81


Nov 25, 2008, 9:19 AM
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phillygoat wrote:
patmay81 wrote:
scottydo wrote:
N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?

0
agreed, with every one who said cero. Your at teh crag 2 climb; so sack up, grow a set and climb!

*snaps stick clip over knee* Dude, you've shown me the error of my ways...
I'm glad I could help, but dude dont destroy your gear because your not going to use it. donate it to some still sackless climber that may need it. You wouldn't expect a spurt climbing convert to throw his draws away just cuz he bought a set of cams. dont waste the gearz!


Gmburns2000


Nov 25, 2008, 9:22 AM
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patmay81 wrote:
phillygoat wrote:
patmay81 wrote:
scottydo wrote:
N_Oo_B wrote:
How many bolts can you stick clip and still call it a redpoint?

0
agreed, with every one who said cero. Your at teh crag 2 climb; so sack up, grow a set and climb!

*snaps stick clip over knee* Dude, you've shown me the error of my ways...
I'm glad I could help, but dude dont destroy your gear because your not going to use it. donate it to some still sackless climber that may need it. You wouldn't expect a spurt climbing convert to throw his draws away just cuz he bought a set of cams. dont waste the gearz!

So you're saying that by trash stalking my neighbor I'm wasting my time? Crap. Anyone throwing out a new plasma screen TV any time soon? Unsure


Tylers_outdoors


May 22, 2013, 12:14 PM
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Ill tell you what, whatever it takes to avoid a ground fall. In most cases I would say the first bolt if its really high. I will take a fall if its a small fall, I love to boulder. But, I also think a high ground fall that causes injury or worse is not worth the risk. Just this weekend I blew a clip on a runout second bolt and took a 25 foot ground fall, I walked away from it pretty banged up but I will never let it happen again, this I am sure. When I am able to breath properly again and the puss stops seeping from my head, (I was wearing a helmet, it is now a two piece), I will be back to the route that kicked my ass. I will be bringing a stick clip and I will be stick clipping that second bolt. Sport climbing is about having fun pushing your limits on a project. Clip what you need to to stay safe. If you want to be a cowboy place your pro.


acorneau


May 22, 2013, 6:52 PM
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Tylers_outdoors wrote:
Ill tell you what, whatever it takes to avoid a ground fall. In most cases I would say the first bolt if its really high. I will take a fall if its a small fall, I love to boulder. But, I also think a high ground fall that causes injury or worse is not worth the risk. Just this weekend I blew a clip on a runout second bolt and took a 25 foot ground fall, I walked away from it pretty banged up but I will never let it happen again, this I am sure. When I am able to breath properly again and the puss stops seeping from my head, (I was wearing a helmet, it is now a two piece), I will be back to the route that kicked my ass. I will be bringing a stick clip and I will be stick clipping that second bolt. Sport climbing is about having fun pushing your limits on a project. Clip what you need to to stay safe. If you want to be a cowboy place your pro.


Don't mind me, just passing by...

Cool


ShelfRoadNic


May 23, 2013, 7:39 AM
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What is a Stick Clip?


dagibbs


May 23, 2013, 7:42 AM
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ShelfRoadNic wrote:
What is a Stick Clip?

A stick that is used to clip (usually) the first bolt of a sport climb from the ground so that even the opening moves are protected.

Some/many modern sport climbs are bolted with a high first bolt, with the expectation that it will be clipped with a stick clip. This is done, because it allows for safer clipping of the 2nd bolt, without having to make the 2nd bolt (and even 3rd bolt) very close to the previous bolt(s).


ShelfRoadNic


May 23, 2013, 7:50 AM
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So, to call the climb a redpoint you cant "stick clip" any of the bolts?


dagibbs


May 23, 2013, 7:55 AM
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ShelfRoadNic wrote:
So, to call the climb a redpoint you cant "stick clip" any of the bolts?

That's what the debate, and the poll, in this thread is about.

My personal feeling -- stick-clipping the first bolt of a sport climb still allows one to claim a red-point or on-sight of the climb. Especially since many climbs are bolted with that expectation.


jt512


May 23, 2013, 10:28 AM
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ShelfRoadNic wrote:
What is a Stick Clip?

Something I don't climb at Shelf Road without.


jomagam


May 23, 2013, 10:57 AM
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jt512 wrote:
ShelfRoadNic wrote:
What is a Stick Clip?

Something I don't climb at Shelf Road without.

Why is Shelf special ? Been there a bunch of times and didn't think the first bolts were higher than usual, or the landing was worse, or the rock was more brittle.


jt512


May 23, 2013, 11:04 AM
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jomagam wrote:
jt512 wrote:
ShelfRoadNic wrote:
What is a Stick Clip?

Something I don't climb at Shelf Road without.

Why is Shelf special ? Been there a bunch of times and didn't think the first bolts were higher than usual, or the landing was worse, or the rock was more brittle.

They're higher than a lot of places I climb, but I stick clip the first bolt unless I am sure that I won't fall before clipping it. Hitting the ground is never a "good landing," IMO.


ShelfRoadNic


May 23, 2013, 11:29 AM
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I have only climbed for 2 years, and mostly at shelf and to flash or redpoint or onsight why not just have a spotter for that first bolt. Call the climb what it is.


(This post was edited by ShelfRoadNic on May 23, 2013, 11:29 AM)


jomagam


May 23, 2013, 12:12 PM
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jt512 wrote:
They're higher than a lot of places I climb, but I stick clip the first bolt unless I am sure that I won't fall before clipping it. Hitting the ground is never a "good landing," IMO.

I associate Smith Rock with high first bolts. Barbecue The Pope for example.


jt512


May 23, 2013, 1:05 PM
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ShelfRoadNic wrote:
I have only climbed for 2 years, and mostly at shelf and to flash or redpoint or onsight why not just have a spotter for that first bolt. Call the climb what it is.

Why not just use a stick clip?


jt512


May 23, 2013, 1:06 PM
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jomagam wrote:
jt512 wrote:
They're higher than a lot of places I climb, but I stick clip the first bolt unless I am sure that I won't fall before clipping it. Hitting the ground is never a "good landing," IMO.

I associate Smith Rock with high first bolts. Barbecue The Pope for example.

I associate ground falls with broken bones.


milesenoell


May 23, 2013, 8:04 PM
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jomagam wrote:
jt512 wrote:
They're higher than a lot of places I climb, but I stick clip the first bolt unless I am sure that I won't fall before clipping it. Hitting the ground is never a "good landing," IMO.

I associate Smith Rock with high first bolts. Barbecue The Pope for example.

I was thinking of Smith, too. Several routes there that I wouldn't want to climb without stick clipping, but most have a long stick somewhere close so I have never had a problem with not bringing a real commercial stick clip.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on May 23, 2013, 8:44 PM)


dagibbs


May 23, 2013, 8:37 PM
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milesenoell wrote:

I was thinking of Smith, too. Several routes there that I wouldn't want to climb without stick clipping, but most have a long stick somewhere close so I have never had a problem with not bringing a real stick clip.

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.


milesenoell


May 23, 2013, 8:44 PM
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There you go.


jt512


May 23, 2013, 9:14 PM
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dagibbs wrote:
milesenoell wrote:

I was thinking of Smith, too. Several routes there that I wouldn't want to climb without stick clipping, but most have a long stick somewhere close so I have never had a problem with not bringing a real stick clip.

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.

Yeah, cuz real sport climbers make their stick clips the traditional way. No, wait.


granite_grrl


May 24, 2013, 4:51 AM
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dagibbs wrote:
milesenoell wrote:

I was thinking of Smith, too. Several routes there that I wouldn't want to climb without stick clipping, but most have a long stick somewhere close so I have never had a problem with not bringing a real stick clip.

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.

And I love the wads of tape left behind from these stick clips.

Honestly, if you're just happy with a pain in the ass stick at the bottom of the crag you obviously don't understand how to fully use a proper stick clip.


camhead


May 24, 2013, 5:12 AM
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dagibbs wrote:

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.

Good to know. I was just worrying that there was not enough gritty authenticity in my climbing, maybe using a branch to pre-clip that first bolt of a 5.9 will help.


kennoyce


May 24, 2013, 5:40 AM
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camhead wrote:
dagibbs wrote:

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.

Good to know. I was just worrying that there was not enough gritty authenticity in my climbing, maybe using a branch to pre-clip that first bolt of a 5.9 will help.

Woah, 5.9? I don't think most of us participating in this thread are at that elite level yet.


dagibbs


May 24, 2013, 7:05 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
milesenoell wrote:

I was thinking of Smith, too. Several routes there that I wouldn't want to climb without stick clipping, but most have a long stick somewhere close so I have never had a problem with not bringing a real stick clip.

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.

And I love the wads of tape left behind from these stick clips.

Honestly, if you're just happy with a pain in the ass stick at the bottom of the crag you obviously don't understand how to fully use a proper stick clip.

I've got an extendible painter's pole with a commercial stick-clip attachment at the end. I was very happy to have it with me at Rumney last weekend.

But, I started out old-school with a stick and tape. Though, I never left the wads of tape behind.


donald949


May 24, 2013, 8:57 AM
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dagibbs wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
milesenoell wrote:

I was thinking of Smith, too. Several routes there that I wouldn't want to climb without stick clipping, but most have a long stick somewhere close so I have never had a problem with not bringing a real stick clip.

I might argue that that is a "real" stick clip. A piece of stick, fixed up with a bit of climbing tape is the real thing. These modern pre-made objects with extensible poles and pre-manufactured devices for holding the 'biner. They're just substitutes for a stick & some tape.

And I love the wads of tape left behind from these stick clips.

Honestly, if you're just happy with a pain in the ass stick at the bottom of the crag you obviously don't understand how to fully use a proper stick clip.

I've got an extendible painter's pole with a commercial stick-clip attachment at the end. I was very happy to have it with me at Rumney last weekend.

But, I started out old-school with a stick and tape. Though, I never left the wads of tape behind.
Then your not doing it right. More Trash FTW!

Now having reread this little thread, I realize a stick clip is exactly what I needed last fall. No pun intended. I had never passed up a climb before for the want of a stick, but yea, the LZ was a small boulder field. Plus there was a couple ledges just wide enough to flip the leader on his way down.
The bolt was a litlle higher than I'm used to, so what the longest stick clip they make?


csproul


May 24, 2013, 9:17 AM
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The longest I've seen are window washer poles. They're a bit heavy, but they extend pretty far. Not sure how long they make them, but one of my partners has one that is 25-30 ft.


dagibbs


May 24, 2013, 9:29 AM
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donald949 wrote:
The bolt was a litlle higher than I'm used to, so what the longest stick clip they make?

From what I've seen, mostly they make a biner-holder attachment, and you supply your own pole. I've seen a variety of different things used for the poles, from tent-poles to painting poles to window-washing poles.

Trade-offs include weight, length, portability, collapsibility, rigidity, and cost.


granite_grrl


May 24, 2013, 9:40 AM
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csproul wrote:
The longest I've seen are window washer poles. They're a bit heavy, but they extend pretty far. Not sure how long they make them, but one of my partners has one that is 25-30 ft.

I find that heavey is good because it means they're likely made of steel instead of aluminum. Al seems to have a lot more flex, which can be a real issue when you start trying to extend it out further.


donald949


May 24, 2013, 9:51 AM
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csproul wrote:
The longest I've seen are window washer poles. They're a bit heavy, but they extend pretty far. Not sure how long they make them, but one of my partners has one that is 25-30 ft.
Can they be screwed together, I need one about twice that long.


csproul


May 24, 2013, 10:07 AM
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donald949 wrote:
csproul wrote:
The longest I've seen are window washer poles. They're a bit heavy, but they extend pretty far. Not sure how long they make them, but one of my partners has one that is 25-30 ft.
Can they be screwed together, I need one about twice that long.
I think that's just called top-roping! Seriously, what are you trying to clip that you need something 50-60 long? a 25 ft pole plus an average person reach should be able to clip something at 35 ft. More than enough for every 1st bolt (and a lot of 2nd bolts) that I've come across. I doubt you'd be able to control a stick that was 50 ft long anyway.


camhead


May 24, 2013, 10:11 AM
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csproul wrote:
donald949 wrote:
csproul wrote:
The longest I've seen are window washer poles. They're a bit heavy, but they extend pretty far. Not sure how long they make them, but one of my partners has one that is 25-30 ft.
Can they be screwed together, I need one about twice that long.
I think that's just called top-roping! Seriously, what are you trying to clip that you need something 50-60 long? a 25 ft pole plus an average person reach should be able to clip something at 35 ft. More than enough for every 1st bolt (and a lot of 2nd bolts) that I've come across. I doubt you'd be able to control a stick that was 50 ft long anyway.

A lot of people think that longer sticks are cool, but they usually are just floppy and get in the way. Plus, I've heard that a lot of routes like a shorter stick, since it means the user must be more attentive. Not to mention, girth is just as important as length, which has not been discussed yet in here...


... wait, what are we talking about again?


donald949


May 24, 2013, 10:41 AM
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csproul wrote:
donald949 wrote:
csproul wrote:
The longest I've seen are window washer poles. They're a bit heavy, but they extend pretty far. Not sure how long they make them, but one of my partners has one that is 25-30 ft.
Can they be screwed together, I need one about twice that long.
I think that's just called top-roping! Seriously, what are you trying to clip that you need something 50-60 long? a 25 ft pole plus an average person reach should be able to clip something at 35 ft. More than enough for every 1st bolt (and a lot of 2nd bolts) that I've come across. I doubt you'd be able to control a stick that was 50 ft long anyway.
Well no, it wouldn't be a TR. The route is longer than that. But yes I am concerned about it getting floppy.


losbill


May 24, 2013, 10:43 AM
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Great thread. Can somebody get one going on the ethics and techniques of stacking up cheater stones?


kennoyce


May 24, 2013, 11:53 AM
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losbill wrote:
Great thread. Can somebody get one going on the ethics and techniques of stacking up cheater stones?

oh, you mean bouldering up to the first bolt, yeah, that was already brought up back on page 1.


dagibbs


May 24, 2013, 1:53 PM
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losbill wrote:
Great thread. Can somebody get one going on the ethics and techniques of stacking up cheater stones?

I would say they are different. Pre-clipping a bolt reduces the risk of injury, while still doing the moves. Stacking cheater stones reduces the actual moves that need to be done.


curt


May 27, 2013, 11:29 PM
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jt512 wrote:
jomagam wrote:
jt512 wrote:
They're higher than a lot of places I climb, but I stick clip the first bolt unless I am sure that I won't fall before clipping it. Hitting the ground is never a "good landing," IMO.

I associate Smith Rock with high first bolts. Barbecue The Pope for example.

I associate ground falls with broken bones.

Barbecue the Pope is 10b.

Curt


curt


May 27, 2013, 11:34 PM
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losbill wrote:
Great thread. Can somebody get one going on the ethics and techniques of stacking up cheater stones?

Regular cheater stones or extendable cheater stones?

Curt


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