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blueeyedclimber
Dec 17, 2008, 1:12 AM
Post #51 of 107
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jaablink wrote: I did not say you should never use a dynamic belay. I said, use when applicable. And pieces can pop using a dynamic belay. I’m in Redrocks January 9th if you get out there, or I will be out in SL Utah in March for a week then Park City. If you want to meet up I would be more than happy to show you.
You said this:
In reply to: The dynamic properties of the rope take place of the dynamic belays once used in the past for a more static line, and the only times you should walk in or allow more slack to a falling partner is if there is an obstruction that those actions will help the climber to avoid and make a cleaner fall.
Although you are correct in stating that you can help the climber avoid obstacles by giving a softer catch, you are way off by saying that you shouldn't otherwise. On steep climbs, giving a soft catch prevents the climber from swinging into the wall. I don't understand why you would think otherwise.
Second, as far as zippering pieces, if you are going to make a claim like that that not one person has agreed with yet, then you need to say a little more than asking people to fly across the country so you can "show" them. What causes pieces to zipper is if the first piece is subjected to an upward and outward force which it is not prepared to handle. If anything, softening the catch would lessen that impact, not increase it. More likely though, it would have no effect on it whatsoever.
Josh
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 17, 2008, 1:18 AM
Post #52 of 107
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curt wrote: jaablink wrote: Your late. I get it… I'm late. You're stupid. I win. Curt
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dingus
Dec 17, 2008, 1:26 AM
Post #53 of 107
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kennoyce wrote: i'm really confused as to how you can have a profile like you do, and not know what a factor 2 fall is,
A climber could go a whole career, and thousands have done just that... without knowing what the precise definition of FF2 may be, and not suffer one iota for that lack.
All this fall factor bullshit is nice for math and arguing but the precise[/i[] meaning of any given fall factor is largely irrelevant WHEN IN THE FIELD.
A climber only needs to know thatr falling directly on the belay subjects the belay and belayer with tremendous force... I btechya jaablink knows that just fine.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Dec 17, 2008, 1:27 AM)
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 17, 2008, 1:29 AM
Post #54 of 107
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dingus wrote: I btechya jaablink knows that just fine. DMT
Are you sure about that?
You may be right Dingus, but total ignorance in one area is usually not in isolation.
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jt512
Dec 17, 2008, 1:32 AM
Post #55 of 107
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blueeyedclimber wrote: ...you are correct in stating that you can help the climber avoid obstacles by giving a softer catch...
He is?
Jay
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dingus
Dec 17, 2008, 1:38 AM
Post #56 of 107
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blueeyedclimber wrote: dingus wrote: I btechya jaablink knows that just fine. DMT Are you sure about that? You may be right Dingus, but total ignorance in one area is usually not in isolation.
It doesn't really matter. What matters here is definitions. Not much more than than either.
DMT
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shockabuku
Dec 17, 2008, 1:40 AM
Post #57 of 107
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dingus wrote: kennoyce wrote: i'm really confused as to how you can have a profile like you do, and not know what a factor 2 fall is, A climber could go a whole career, and thousands have done just that... without knowing what the precise definition of FF2 may be, and not suffer one iota for that lack. All this fall factor bullshit is nice for math and arguing but the precise[/i[] meaning of any given fall factor is largely irrelevant WHEN IN THE FIELD.
A climber only needs to know thatr falling directly on the belay subjects the belay and belayer with tremendous force... I btechya jaablink knows that just fine.
DMT
Irregardless, one should know what one decides to talk about or one should keep one's mouth shut.
And one should also learn how to close italics, one should!
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dingus
Dec 17, 2008, 1:43 AM
Post #58 of 107
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shockabuku wrote: dingus wrote: kennoyce wrote: i'm really confused as to how you can have a profile like you do, and not know what a factor 2 fall is, A climber could go a whole career, and thousands have done just that... without knowing what the precise definition of FF2 may be, and not suffer one iota for that lack. All this fall factor bullshit is nice for math and arguing but the precise[/i[] meaning of any given fall factor is largely irrelevant WHEN IN THE FIELD.
A climber only needs to know thatr falling directly on the belay subjects the belay and belayer with tremendous force... I btechya jaablink knows that just fine.
DMTIrregardless, one should know what one decides to talk about or one should keep one's mouth shut. And one should also learn how to close italics, one should!
One should take a luvin spoonful of one's own medicine.
Daily.
DMT
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shockabuku
Dec 17, 2008, 1:45 AM
Post #59 of 107
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dingus wrote: shockabuku wrote: dingus wrote: kennoyce wrote: i'm really confused as to how you can have a profile like you do, and not know what a factor 2 fall is, A climber could go a whole career, and thousands have done just that... without knowing what the precise definition of FF2 may be, and not suffer one iota for that lack. All this fall factor bullshit is nice for math and arguing but the precise[/i[] meaning of any given fall factor is largely irrelevant WHEN IN THE FIELD.
A climber only needs to know thatr falling directly on the belay subjects the belay and belayer with tremendous force... I btechya jaablink knows that just fine.
DMTIrregardless, one should know what one decides to talk about or one should keep one's mouth shut. And one should also learn how to close italics, one should! One should take a luvin spoonful of one's own medicine. Daily. DMT
And LIKE IT! We loves it.
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shimanilami
Dec 17, 2008, 1:54 AM
Post #60 of 107
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Wow. This troll has more legs than I ever would have imagined. Kudos.
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jt512
Dec 17, 2008, 1:58 AM
Post #61 of 107
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dingus wrote: shockabuku wrote: dingus wrote: kennoyce wrote: i'm really confused as to how you can have a profile like you do, and not know what a factor 2 fall is, A climber could go a whole career, and thousands have done just that... without knowing what the precise definition of FF2 may be, and not suffer one iota for that lack. All this fall factor bullshit is nice for math and arguing but the precise[/i[] meaning of any given fall factor is largely irrelevant WHEN IN THE FIELD.
A climber only needs to know thatr falling directly on the belay subjects the belay and belayer with tremendous force... I btechya jaablink knows that just fine.
DMTIrregardless, one should know what one decides to talk about or one should keep one's mouth shut. And one should also learn how to close italics, one should! One should take a luvin spoonful of one's own medicine. Daily.
One should avoid using the pompous phrase "one should." In fact, two should.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Dec 17, 2008, 1:59 AM)
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moose_droppings
Dec 17, 2008, 2:01 AM
Post #62 of 107
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altelis wrote: hafilax wrote: Don't type angry. It's never pretty. its too bad Angry isn't part of this disscusion, because with the addition of a little comma, the meaning is totally different! "don't type , angry. its never pretty"
Or with one letter missing.
"its too bad Angry isn't part of this disscusion, because with the addition of a little coma, the meaning is totally different!
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jaablink
Dec 17, 2008, 2:01 AM
Post #63 of 107
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Wonderwoman sent me this link on the first page to Freedom of the hills, I did not see anything about “On steep climbs, giving a soft catch prevents the climber from swinging into the wall”as I stated its situational prudence....on page 159 (dynamic lines) i did find reference to benefits of dynamic belays on weak anchors. Page 161
http://books.google.com/...;ct=result#PPA158,M1
As for the zipper effect, I think in the case I saw the belay was too far back. When the climber fell he fed line that causes friction on the first clip pulling it up and popping the nut then the next 2 popped in succession leaving 2 cams he had places higher in the crack. At the Spider Web last spring.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 17, 2008, 2:07 AM
Post #64 of 107
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jt512 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: ...you are correct in stating that you can help the climber avoid obstacles by giving a softer catch... He is? Jay
If you consider the lip of a roof an obstacle.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 17, 2008, 2:09 AM
Post #65 of 107
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jaablink wrote: As for the zipper effect, I think in the case I saw the belay was too far back. When the climber fell he fed line that causes friction on the first clip pulling it up and popping the nut then the next 2 popped in succession leaving 2 cams he had places higher in the crack. At the Spider Web last spring.
What caused the nut to pop was the belayer being too far back and the nut not being able to withstand the upward pull. Whether he fed rope out jor not was insignificant.
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jt512
Dec 17, 2008, 2:10 AM
Post #66 of 107
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jaablink wrote: Wonderwoman sent me this link on the first page to Freedom of the hills, I did not see anything about “On steep climbs, giving a soft catch prevents the climber from swinging into the wall”as I stated its situational prudence....on page 159 (dynamic lines) i did find reference to benefits of dynamic belays on weak anchors. Page 161 http://books.google.com/...;ct=result#PPA158,M1 As for the zipper effect, I think in the case I saw the belay was too far back. When the climber fell he fed line that causes friction on the first clip pulling it up and popping the nut then the next 2 popped in succession leaving 2 cams he had places higher in the crack. At the Spider Web last spring.
Strong but stupid. Apparently, Pennsylvania does not discriminate on the basis of climbing ability.
Jay
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jaablink
Dec 17, 2008, 2:16 AM
Post #67 of 107
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That depends on where the last gear is placed and how far above it I am. If I would hit my head on the lip because there is not enough line to clear it , I would most certainly want a DB.
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jaablink
Dec 17, 2008, 2:20 AM
Post #68 of 107
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So you are saying you would like a dynamic blay on a slab…. And Spider's Web is in ,NY.
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Lazlo
Dec 17, 2008, 2:26 AM
Post #69 of 107
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jaablink wrote: So you are saying you would like a dynamic blay on a slab…. And Spider's Web is in ,NY.
...That's a stupid retort. Obviously no one does. I don't think you're an idiot; but I do think your posts are ill-informed and you should conceed and move on.
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jaablink
Dec 17, 2008, 2:35 AM
Post #70 of 107
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Its been easy and fun…but your right I concede. Sweet dreams everyone. OXOXOXO
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jt512
Dec 17, 2008, 2:44 AM
Post #71 of 107
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blueeyedclimber wrote: jt512 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: ...you are correct in stating that you can help the climber avoid obstacles by giving a softer catch... He is? Jay If you consider the lip of a roof an obstacle.
When the climber is over a roof, you want extra slack in the rope so that he free falls clear of the lip. That has nothing to do with whether the belay is dynamic or not.
Jay
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shockabuku
Dec 17, 2008, 2:59 AM
Post #73 of 107
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jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: shockabuku wrote: dingus wrote: kennoyce wrote: i'm really confused as to how you can have a profile like you do, and not know what a factor 2 fall is, A climber could go a whole career, and thousands have done just that... without knowing what the precise definition of FF2 may be, and not suffer one iota for that lack. All this fall factor bullshit is nice for math and arguing but the precise[/i[] meaning of any given fall factor is largely irrelevant WHEN IN THE FIELD.
A climber only needs to know thatr falling directly on the belay subjects the belay and belayer with tremendous force... I btechya jaablink knows that just fine.
DMTIrregardless, one should know what one decides to talk about or one should keep one's mouth shut. And one should also learn how to close italics, one should! One should take a luvin spoonful of one's own medicine. Daily. One should avoid using the pompous phrase "one should." In fact, two should. Jay
I guess you missed the fact that we changed to we.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 17, 2008, 3:13 AM
Post #74 of 107
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jt512 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: jt512 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: ...you are correct in stating that you can help the climber avoid obstacles by giving a softer catch... He is? Jay If you consider the lip of a roof an obstacle. When the climber is over a roof, you want extra slack in the rope so that he free falls clear of the lip. That has nothing to do with whether the belay is dynamic or not. Jay
Yes, I reckon you are correct. Now, what say you about this nonsense of a dynamic catch contributing to the zipper effect. I would hope this would be more of an argument than whether the lip of a roof is or is not an obstacle or whether it takes any dynamics in any situation to clear a climber of it.
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angry
Dec 17, 2008, 3:19 AM
Post #75 of 107
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It's pretty cool to read a thread I'm not involved in and find someone spraying for me.
Carry on.
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