Any mention of a liability lawsuit directed at FA teams should be SHOUTED DOWN. Repeatedly.

Some seem to be speaking as if a failing bolt killed the climber. Unless I've missed it, none of the bolts failed for the climbers. They were easily removed by other parties investigating later.

The climber got off route, fell, his rope was cut, and he fell to his death.

It was the team's judgment to follow what turned out to be the wrong line.

The bolters bear the responsibility of doing a poor job, and could fairly be considered reckless (wet sandstone and recommendations against their approach from locals). But talk of liability seems misguided.

IF the rope had not been cut, the consensus seems to be that the bolts would not have held. Perhaps the belayer would also have been pulled from the wall. The cut rope may have saved the belayer's life.

A very tragic situation.

Some seem to be speaking as if a failing bolt killed the climber. Unless I've missed it, none of the bolts failed for the climbers.

In fact you missed it. The climber weighted a bolt, which failed, with the result that he fell over a sharp ledge which cut the rope.

If a liability suit of this sorts comes to fruition we can pretty much be assued that guidebooks and open reporting of new routes will STOP. Entirely.

I've created bolted face climbs. The climber assumes full risk if she decides to trust those bolts. Until a court says other wise.

When a court says otherwise I will have reported my last drilled bolt.

I say it's not IF.... it's WHEN.

And when it happens, climbing clubs along the lines of hunting clubs, will become the defact standard in the U.S. as the only practical way to manage the liabilities.

It is a stinky can of worms. Someone, perhaps someone on this board, will one day sue a first ascentionist team for something - and win.

Climbing as we know it will cease that day.

Any mention of a liability lawsuit directed at FA teams should be SHOUTED DOWN. Repeatedly.

DMT

Climbing as we know it died 20 years...this is just the DEATH rattle.

Wow. Just, wow. What a sad, sad story.

My condolences to the bereaved, and shame on the FA team.

GO

I really think you are looking at this as being only black or white, dingus. Even if these guys were held liable for the bolting, I don't think any other bolter should get worried. Remember the facts:

* The bolters used bolts that were not suitable for climbing
* The bolters were told not to use those bolts by local climbers, but did so anyway
* The bolters knew the bolts they put in were worthless (they mentioned on their home forum that they could take some out by hand)
* They named the route and sent in a topo the the guidebook producer, making no mention of bad bolts

I think any jury would see quite a big difference between the above case and a case of a rusty 30 year old peg braking after fallen on.

I don't get this. Now we're judging the FAs style but in 100 other threads the FAs decisions are considered unquestionable????

I don't get this. Now we're judging the FAs style but in 100 other threads the FAs decisions are considered unquestionable????

Just a heads up that one of the FA's have responded in a thread at ukclimbing. I could'nt find a way to link directly to the post, so go to this thread: http://www.ukc2.com/...php?t=340148&v=1 and search for "Boris Cujic".

You are totally off pace with Madd... Slow down, re read, re think. re post!

Climbing is not a Group Hug. Don't ever forget that. There are many of us who would still be climbers if all the gyms and prana pants and instructors and rules and stainless steel bolts disappeared over night. This notion that all routes must be equipped for the lowest common denominator is bloody stupid.

DMT