*yawn*

Regardless of my critical thinking skills, I have cited text from a well-known, trusted source. If you wish to discredit the book, by all means, proceed. But don't attack me. Attack the book, it's authors, sources, whatever. And maybe with a little more than "it's an introductory text".

Or better yet, find me an uber-elite, ultra-specialized book - perhaps on the topic of belaying - that says anything contrary to what I have cited from FOTH.

Because that is your point, right? That FOTH is a book for noobs, it's out-of-date, and therefore can't be trusted. Or is your point that the text I cited is incorrect? Either way, make your point.

Shocking: senior members here are referring to FOTH has an out-of-date text and book for n00bs. Because after all, belaying techniques have advanced so greatly since 2008. Plus, completely making up information is much more reliable than anything any n00b book has to offer.

I have yet to meet a mountaineer that doesn't still at least use FOTH as a reference, but I know how forums work, and without a post count, you have no authority or validity. I get it. We can get off the book, and onto the topic - but I know that's not the point.

I've conceded that this is mostly a debate about preference, but most pro associations and books recommend doing it one way, and has been explained physically why one method is used over another (which was quoted here a couple times). But obviously the state I live in, my religion, and lack of critical thinking skills has completely clouded my judgment.

I have yet to meet a mountaineer that doesn't still at least use FOTH as a reference...

I would like to read a book that does a better job than FOTH at tackling mountaineering. I'm sure there are books that delve deeper into climbing rock specifically, like Long's books, but as an encyclopedia and general reference for beginners and pros alike, FOTH is the best I've found.

I've read FOTH. I look elsewhere for modern techniques of alpinism and mountaineering.

Would someone please enumerate precisely what parts of FOTH professional climbers refer to. I simply don't believe that professional climbers, from Chris Sharma to Ed Viesturs, ever look up anything in FOTH.

Jay

Would someone please enumerate precisely what parts of FOTH professional climbers refer to. I simply don't believe that professional climbers, from Chris Sharma to Ed Viesturs, ever look up anything in FOTH.

Jay

Also, if I remember correctly there are many advanced knots (for rescue) and also diagrams of pretty complex pulley systems (e.g., 5-to-1, 3-to-1 on a 2-to-1 system) that even highly experienced mountaineers might not have dialed.

In reality, I doubt Ed Viesturs ever needs to look back at FOTH. But I bet he has it in his library. And you are right, as far as rock goes, the book isn't an advanced text by any means. But it can't get in too deep into any one area because mountaineering encompasses so many things. It covers them all on a pretty good level. And that is why it is the most advanced text for mountaineering that is out there (IMO). Because it does cover pretty much every aspect of it. I could find a more advanced text on crevasse rescue, knots, weather, alpine terrain, navigation, expedition planning, etc., but on mountaineering in general, which comprises all of these things, there is no better text.

If anyone disagrees with me, then we must duel. Also, I would like to know what book you think is better so that I can buy it.

Please share these.

Oh give me a fucking break. Exactly how are you defining a "mountaineer." How many have you actually met? How do you know whether they use FOTH as a reference? What are their experience levels? And exactly information in the book do they refer to?

I am not a mountaineer. I have no interest in the non-rockclimbing sections of the book, and have never read them. All I can speak to is the rock climbing sections, and they are rudimentary at best. In over 20 years of climbing, I have never, once used FOTH as a reference book. There is absolutely nothing in the book I need to refer to. It is introductory climbing material with a stodgy trad undertone. Even when I ws a beginner, I wasn't impressed with the book, and I'm way passed the point of having any use for it now.

Jay

Extreme Alpinism: Mark Twight
The Mountaineering Handbook: Craig Connolly

Are two that I enjoyed. There is at least one reviewer that agrees with JT about M:FOTH.

I've read Twight's book and I agree that it is a good book. Much more narrow focus on a modern subset of alpinism (light and fast, or exxxxtreme).But not everyone is interested in making themselves as hard to kill as possible. Some people also want to learn about sastrugi.

The bolded sentence (among others) is wrong. Broad coverage does not mean advanced coverage. In general, there is an inverse relation between a text's breadth and it how advanced it is.

Jay

What is your obsession with sastrugi?

...but don't pass the book off as a bad or out-of-date reference because you personally have no use for it or simply because of my low post count, on this forum.

You seem to have a tendency of completely muddying potentially good conversations with useless personal attacks, straw men, either/or fallacies, and whatever other distractions you can throw in to get off of having a good debate or conversation.

This is rc.com, there are no 'quick' belay questions.

The fact that you referred to the mountaineers bible - written by a group of professional mountaineers over the course of FIFTY years - as a "book for n00bs" is astounding to me.

JT is right, stop arguing with him.