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Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop?
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rtwilli4


Apr 23, 2010, 8:33 PM
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Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop?
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I usually don't start arguments like this but I'm just curios about what most people do. It came up in another discussion and it was said that your tie ins will wear out faster than your belay loop, depending on what you put the sling on. I always thought (and teach) that the tie ins are reinforced, specifically so that you can put nylon (rope and slings) on them without wearing them out too fast. USnavy argues that the belay loop can be rotated, keeping one area from getting stressed. This makes sense to me, and after thinking, I can see how the tie ins move every time you sit on your sling, causing more abrasion that your belay loop gets.

Usually my sling stays on my tie ins when I am doing single pitch stuff that I have to lower off or rappel. If I can walk off or am doing multi-pitch stuff, I keep just use my rope and a clove hitch to secure myself, and keep a sling or two over my shoulder to use when rapping or any other time I'd need them. In this case, i use my belay loop because it's easier.

More times than not though, I'm using my tie ins. I use my harness just about every day and the leg tie in point is wearing out. I thought this was from belaying, but maybe it's from putting my sling on the tie ins? What do you all think?


boymeetsrock


Apr 23, 2010, 9:00 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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I would say either is fine. My one caveat being that slings should be removed form the harness regularly.

If I arrive at the belay and need a quick sling to clip into, I'll girth hitch the belay loop. 'Cause it easy. As long as the sling is not left permanently in place wear can be minimized and seen well before it is unsafe.

If I've planned ahead I'll go through the power-points. This way the belay loop is left free for belaying.


Edit to add: Harnesses wear out over time. As long as your paying attention and replace when needed, no harm no foul.


(This post was edited by boymeetsrock on Apr 23, 2010, 9:09 PM)


majid_sabet


Apr 23, 2010, 9:16 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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your talking like USNAVY is JOHN LONG

our combat commando does not know the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.

do whatever you feel is right and do not worry about our boy. he is just too fresh to give climbing advice.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Apr 24, 2010, 9:21 AM)


jt512


Apr 23, 2010, 9:27 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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rtwilli4 wrote:
I usually don't start arguments like this but I'm just curios about what most people do. It came up in another discussion and it was said that your tie ins will wear out faster than your belay loop, depending on what you put the sling on. I always thought (and teach) that the tie ins are reinforced, specifically so that you can put nylon (rope and slings) on them without wearing them out too fast. USnavy argues that the belay loop can be rotated, keeping one area from getting stressed. This makes sense to me, and after thinking, I can see how the tie ins move every time you sit on your sling, causing more abrasion that your belay loop gets.

Usually my sling stays on my tie ins when I am doing single pitch stuff that I have to lower off or rappel. If I can walk off or am doing multi-pitch stuff, I keep just use my rope and a clove hitch to secure myself, and keep a sling or two over my shoulder to use when rapping or any other time I'd need them. In this case, i use my belay loop because it's easier.

More times than not though, I'm using my tie ins. I use my harness just about every day and the leg tie in point is wearing out. I thought this was from belaying, but maybe it's from putting my sling on the tie ins? What do you all think?

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay


potreroed


Apr 23, 2010, 10:12 PM
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Re: [jt512] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
I usually don't start arguments like this but I'm just curios about what most people do. It came up in another discussion and it was said that your tie ins will wear out faster than your belay loop, depending on what you put the sling on. I always thought (and teach) that the tie ins are reinforced, specifically so that you can put nylon (rope and slings) on them without wearing them out too fast. USnavy argues that the belay loop can be rotated, keeping one area from getting stressed. This makes sense to me, and after thinking, I can see how the tie ins move every time you sit on your sling, causing more abrasion that your belay loop gets.

Usually my sling stays on my tie ins when I am doing single pitch stuff that I have to lower off or rappel. If I can walk off or am doing multi-pitch stuff, I keep just use my rope and a clove hitch to secure myself, and keep a sling or two over my shoulder to use when rapping or any other time I'd need them. In this case, i use my belay loop because it's easier.

More times than not though, I'm using my tie ins. I use my harness just about every day and the leg tie in point is wearing out. I thought this was from belaying, but maybe it's from putting my sling on the tie ins? What do you all think?

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

I assume you meant locking carabiner, but no, I don't need a biner hanging on the front of my harness. I girth hitch my PAS to the belay loop.


(This post was edited by potreroed on Apr 23, 2010, 10:27 PM)


USnavy


Apr 23, 2010, 10:54 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.
Majidoit please, you are in no position to criticize the qualifications of anyone on this forum. Go back to top roping your 5.9's and let the big boys talk.

Anyway this is what happened to my harness in nine months from attaching my slings to my tie in points:



As you can see the reinforcement webbing has been completely destroyed on the bottom. Right now I am a year into having them attached to my belay loop and my belay loop still looks new. I have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 23, 2010, 11:00 PM)


jt512


Apr 23, 2010, 10:56 PM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
jt512 wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
I usually don't start arguments like this but I'm just curios about what most people do. It came up in another discussion and it was said that your tie ins will wear out faster than your belay loop, depending on what you put the sling on. I always thought (and teach) that the tie ins are reinforced, specifically so that you can put nylon (rope and slings) on them without wearing them out too fast. USnavy argues that the belay loop can be rotated, keeping one area from getting stressed. This makes sense to me, and after thinking, I can see how the tie ins move every time you sit on your sling, causing more abrasion that your belay loop gets.

Usually my sling stays on my tie ins when I am doing single pitch stuff that I have to lower off or rappel. If I can walk off or am doing multi-pitch stuff, I keep just use my rope and a clove hitch to secure myself, and keep a sling or two over my shoulder to use when rapping or any other time I'd need them. In this case, i use my belay loop because it's easier.

More times than not though, I'm using my tie ins. I use my harness just about every day and the leg tie in point is wearing out. I thought this was from belaying, but maybe it's from putting my sling on the tie ins? What do you all think?

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

I assume you meant locking carabiner, but no, I don't need a biner hanging on the front of my harness. I girth hitch my PAS to the belay loop.

As a rule, I don't need anything hanging from the front of my harness.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 23, 2010, 10:57 PM)


shimanilami


Apr 23, 2010, 11:43 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.
Majidoit please, you are in no position to criticize the qualifications of anyone on this forum. Go back to top roping your 5.9's and let the big boys talk.

I've thought hard about how I can add to this. Alas, I am out of my realm.


bennydh


Apr 24, 2010, 2:24 AM
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Re: [jt512] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

Jay? You mean sort of like a quick draw? Or even an extendable quick draw that may already be attached to one's climbing harness?

Please don't be so sensible. You may just hurt the sales of all those extra shoulder length slings for girth hitching, PASs, daisy chains, and all that other accessory crap.


davidnn5


Apr 24, 2010, 3:36 AM
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

Jay? You mean sort of like a quick draw? Or even an extendable quick draw that may already be attached to one's climbing harness?

Please don't be so sensible. You may just hurt the sales of all those extra shoulder length slings for girth hitching, PASs, daisy chains, and all that other accessory crap.

Quickdraws and daisy chains are not remotely comparable.


Partner angry


Apr 24, 2010, 5:12 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
your talking like USNAVY is JOHN LONG

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.

do whatever you feel is right and do not worry about our boy. he is just too fresh to give climbing advice.

This is true. To confound the problem, he's neither consistently wrong or consistently right.

Pretty much makes it impossible to tell whether he's right or wrong for a beginner. Add to that with the authority he makes his frequently incorrect claims and you've got trouble.

Hell, if I were just starting up, I'd probably think he was on the same level of advice from the real deal. He is not. He's a perfect example of why you don't believe everything you read on the internet.


Partner angry


Apr 24, 2010, 5:16 AM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Ryan,

I have a Petzl Sama that I killed in about 12 months. It wore out at the tie in points. I replaced it with another Petzl Sama (awesome harness). To prevent the wear, I cannibalized a Mammut harness with the little plastic tie in protector thing. The new harness has been used about 120 days and still looks brand new.

I'll transfer that little plastic thingy from one harness to another now that I've got it. Too bad only Mammut harnesses come with it.


USnavy


Apr 24, 2010, 5:53 AM
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Re: [angry] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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angry wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
your talking like USNAVY is JOHN LONG

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.

do whatever you feel is right and do not worry about our boy. he is just too fresh to give climbing advice.

This is true. To confound the problem, he's neither consistently wrong or consistently right.

Pretty much makes it impossible to tell whether he's right or wrong for a beginner. Add to that with the authority he makes his frequently incorrect claims and you've got trouble.

Hell, if I were just starting up, I'd probably think he was on the same level of advice from the real deal. He is not. He's a perfect example of why you don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Your right, you caught me. Girth hitching slings though your tie in points is in fact a great idea. I recommend you start doing it immediately.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 24, 2010, 5:55 AM)


ebag17


Apr 24, 2010, 8:20 AM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Is it unusual for your harness manufacture to recommend against girth hitching slings to your belay loop? Or is that just something they do to protect themselves if something goes wrong and everyone does it anyways?

-G


majid_sabet


Apr 24, 2010, 9:19 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.
Majidoit please, you are in no position to criticize the qualifications of anyone on this forum. Go back to top roping your 5.9's and let the big boys talk.

Anyway this is what happened to my harness in nine months from attaching my slings to my tie in points:

[img]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4548/1000559q.jpg[/img]

As you can see the reinforcement webbing has been completely destroyed on the bottom. Right now I am a year into having them attached to my belay loop and my belay loop still looks new. I have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.

I have the right to criticize anyone or any qualified person and believe or not, I even criticized John Long for some of his BS on his anchor book, right here in RC.

Alright big boy, go get that drill and some of the home-depot SS bolt and get busy.

move it move it move it


USnavy


Apr 24, 2010, 9:35 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.
Majidoit please, you are in no position to criticize the qualifications of anyone on this forum. Go back to top roping your 5.9's and let the big boys talk.

Anyway this is what happened to my harness in nine months from attaching my slings to my tie in points:

[img]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4548/1000559q.jpg[/img]

As you can see the reinforcement webbing has been completely destroyed on the bottom. Right now I am a year into having them attached to my belay loop and my belay loop still looks new. I have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.

I have the right to criticize anyone or any qualified person and believe or not, I even criticized John Long for some of his BS on his anchor book, right here in RC.

Alright big boy, go get that drill and some of the home-depot SS bolt and get busy.

move it move it move it
We use custom cut titanium alloy stable bolts that are 40 kN test and more corrosion resistant then grade 317L or 2205 stainless steel. The last time I checked you were the one ghetto rigging your lines with substandard zinc plated stud bolts. That actually brings me to another question. Why do you bother bolting when you don't actually lead anything? Keep talking out of your ass, it brings my day some much needed laughter.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 24, 2010, 9:43 AM)


majid_sabet


Apr 24, 2010, 9:51 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.
Majidoit please, you are in no position to criticize the qualifications of anyone on this forum. Go back to top roping your 5.9's and let the big boys talk.

Anyway this is what happened to my harness in nine months from attaching my slings to my tie in points:

[img]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4548/1000559q.jpg[/img]

As you can see the reinforcement webbing has been completely destroyed on the bottom. Right now I am a year into having them attached to my belay loop and my belay loop still looks new. I have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.

I have the right to criticize anyone or any qualified person and believe or not, I even criticized John Long for some of his BS on his anchor book, right here in RC.

Alright big boy, go get that drill and some of the home-depot SS bolt and get busy.

move it move it move it
We use custom cut titanium alloy stable bolts that are 40 kN test and more corrosion resistant then grade 317L or 2205 stainless steel. The last time I checked you were the one ghetto rigging your lines with substandard zinc plated stud bolts. That actually brings me to another question. Why do you bother bolting when you don't actually lead anything? Keep talking out of your ass, it brings my day some much needed laughter.

they call me MAJIDOIT not because i am an idiot. MAJIDOIT means MAJID + the IDIOT


USnavy


Apr 24, 2010, 10:37 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
USnavy wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:

our combat commando does not the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.
Majidoit please, you are in no position to criticize the qualifications of anyone on this forum. Go back to top roping your 5.9's and let the big boys talk.

Anyway this is what happened to my harness in nine months from attaching my slings to my tie in points:

[img]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4548/1000559q.jpg[/img]

As you can see the reinforcement webbing has been completely destroyed on the bottom. Right now I am a year into having them attached to my belay loop and my belay loop still looks new. I have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.

I have the right to criticize anyone or any qualified person and believe or not, I even criticized John Long for some of his BS on his anchor book, right here in RC.

Alright big boy, go get that drill and some of the home-depot SS bolt and get busy.

move it move it move it
We use custom cut titanium alloy stable bolts that are 40 kN test and more corrosion resistant then grade 317L or 2205 stainless steel. The last time I checked you were the one ghetto rigging your lines with substandard zinc plated stud bolts. That actually brings me to another question. Why do you bother bolting when you don't actually lead anything? Keep talking out of your ass, it brings my day some much needed laughter.

they call me MAJIDOIT not because i am an idiot. MAJIDOIT means MAJID + the IDIOT

Is this you?: http://www.facebook.com/...657937011&ref=ts


bennydh


Apr 24, 2010, 2:09 PM
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Re: [davidnn5] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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davidnn5 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

Jay? You mean sort of like a quick draw? Or even an extendable quick draw that may already be attached to one's climbing harness?

Please don't be so sensible. You may just hurt the sales of all those extra shoulder length slings for girth hitching, PASs, daisy chains, and all that other accessory crap.

Quickdraws and daisy chains are not remotely comparable.

You're right, one is useful and practical, the other isn't. The arguments for people carrying either a PAS, or a daisy seem to come down to a couple inches of flexibility whilst fucking around at an anchor. If an inch or two throws off anyone's ability to safely thread an anchor, they shouldn't be threading anything. If its a comfort issue, then they ought to watch climbing videos at home, on the couch, in a bathrobe.

Draws/extendables work perfectly and aren't an accessory anyone has to buy or carry. They work just as well for single pitch, and multipitch where the rope easily serves the purpose of anchor building and personal anchor.

...but then again you all are entitled to drag your tires, and accessory cords, daisys and equalettes, and just about whatever else you'd like to make a climbing anchor comfy, or easier than already easy to setup.


Partner j_ung


Apr 24, 2010, 2:26 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
davidnn5 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

Jay? You mean sort of like a quick draw? Or even an extendable quick draw that may already be attached to one's climbing harness?

Please don't be so sensible. You may just hurt the sales of all those extra shoulder length slings for girth hitching, PASs, daisy chains, and all that other accessory crap.

Quickdraws and daisy chains are not remotely comparable.

You're right, one is useful and practical, the other isn't. The arguments for people carrying either a PAS, or a daisy seem to come down to a couple inches of flexibility whilst fucking around at an anchor. If an inch or two throws off anyone's ability to safely thread an anchor, they shouldn't be threading anything. If its a comfort issue, then they ought to watch climbing videos at home, on the couch, in a bathrobe.

Draws/extendables work perfectly and aren't an accessory anyone has to buy or carry. They work just as well for single pitch, and multipitch where the rope easily serves the purpose of anchor building and personal anchor.

...but then again you all are entitled to drag your tires, and accessory cords, daisys and equalettes, and just about whatever else you'd like to make a climbing anchor comfy, or easier than already easy to setup.

It's a little disproportionately peeved for the subject, but yeah, I agree.


bennydh


Apr 24, 2010, 2:45 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
bennydh wrote:
davidnn5 wrote:
bennydh wrote:
jt512 wrote:

How about just clipping your sling into your harness with a carabiner.

Jay

Jay? You mean sort of like a quick draw? Or even an extendable quick draw that may already be attached to one's climbing harness?

Please don't be so sensible. You may just hurt the sales of all those extra shoulder length slings for girth hitching, PASs, daisy chains, and all that other accessory crap.

Quickdraws and daisy chains are not remotely comparable.

You're right, one is useful and practical, the other isn't. The arguments for people carrying either a PAS, or a daisy seem to come down to a couple inches of flexibility whilst fucking around at an anchor. If an inch or two throws off anyone's ability to safely thread an anchor, they shouldn't be threading anything. If its a comfort issue, then they ought to watch climbing videos at home, on the couch, in a bathrobe.

Draws/extendables work perfectly and aren't an accessory anyone has to buy or carry. They work just as well for single pitch, and multipitch where the rope easily serves the purpose of anchor building and personal anchor.

...but then again you all are entitled to drag your tires, and accessory cords, daisys and equalettes, and just about whatever else you'd like to make a climbing anchor comfy, or easier than already easy to setup.

It's a little disproportionately peeved for the subject, but yeah, I agree.

Disproportionate, I know... but if I take it 10 steps in one direction, and I have to concede a point an take a step or two back, I am often still a few steps ahead. Wink


potreroed


Apr 24, 2010, 8:03 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.


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Apr 25, 2010, 7:22 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:


... have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.

It does look like you have some wear on that section, but I can't tell from the photo what is actually going on.

TWO PAS's? TWO belay loops? I know some of the manufacturers made the double belay loop after Skinner bit the dust(RIP) when his belay loop busted through from overuse(overuse to the extreme that I doubt ANYONE who has time to post regularly to this website could ever come near achieving). It was a manufacturers marketing reaction to an unfortunate, but very widely publicized, event in our community. People actually ditched their perfectly good harnesses to buy the double loop. Well, it was good for the outdoor rec economy, I suppose.

Personally, I would never buy a harness with the double belay loop, and I'd be embarrassed to be seen wearing one.

But TWO PAS'S? For everyday free climbing? Not only would I be embarrassed to be seen in such get-up, I'd be embarrassed to be seen belaying someone that dogmatic about *safety.*

But....that's just me.


I do have the PAS, and though I've considered ditching it and just going with rope or a sling tie-in, it still has a lot of life on it. I don't think I would pay, what is it now - $30?, for a new one. The PAS was suggested to be(by a self-professed safety nazi) when I was a brand new newb. I admit that I sort of like being able to have the options of lengths, when anchored in at a little ledge.


- I girth hitch it to the top tie-in only.
- I check it, and harness point, every so often to see the wear. So far, not any, really, after 5 years use on multipitch and rap anchor clip-in use.

Someone once freaked out that I had only one point hitched, insisting I was gonna die. I agreed - I would, someday die. After all - nobody gets out alive. But it would be extremely unlikely to be from gear failure.

Still, I obediantly switched it out to do both tie-in points, and every damned time I put the harness on with that set up, found myself annoyed trying to thread the rope tie-in(especially with doubles), and also a vague annoyance due to the harness feeling off balance with the bunched up lower tie-point. I switched back to one tie point the next time I checked for wear.


You know what I think is WAY more important than how one clips themselves in? Keeping hydrated, energy level in balance through nutrition, and wearing adequate clothing. I bet a LOT more people die from fucking up their anchor/rap set up because they were bonking, dehydrated or in hypothermia mode, than all the one's(RIP Skinner, and in no way discounting the tragic loss to his family and friends) whose harness or tie-in cling broke due to wear.


johnwesely


Apr 25, 2010, 7:30 AM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Happie,

The double loops are for keeping things tidy while aid climbing, not redundancy.


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Apr 25, 2010, 8:07 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Aid climbing, I know not much about. So if that's the case - that's the case, though I wonder what the dudes did BITD before harnesses came into being. I guess the Whillans Sit Harness had something going for it that kept the mind off any worry about tidiness on the belay loop.... And:



I just recall when the "redundant belay loop" concept came out, all the discussion here on forums. And seeing people who immediately went out and bought nice red webbing and water-knotted a second belay loop to their (barely used) harnesses.

And....with a small bit of detective work(ie; cyber-stalking) a look at USNavy's ascents log - though it does show his most recent climb as being A0, also shows about 20 climbs not listed as aid. I'm lazy and didn't look further - maybe those are all FA's that he put up via aiding through, and so he primarily aids long routes. But that wasn't the gist I got from the reply to the OP that was made.


USnavy


Apr 25, 2010, 8:21 AM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
USnavy wrote:
[img]http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4548/1000559q.jpg[/img]

... have two PAS's, one attached to each belay loop.

It does look like you have some wear on that section, but I can't tell from the photo what is actually going on.

TWO PAS's? TWO belay loops? I know some of the manufacturers made the double belay loop after Skinner bit the dust(RIP) when his belay loop busted through from overuse(overuse to the extreme that I doubt ANYONE who has time to post regularly to this website could ever come near achieving). It was a manufacturers marketing reaction to an unfortunate, but very widely publicized, event in our community. People actually ditched their perfectly good harnesses to buy the double loop. Well, it was good for the outdoor rec economy, I suppose.

Personally, I would never buy a harness with the double belay loop, and I'd be embarrassed to be seen wearing one.

But TWO PAS'S? For everyday free climbing? Not only would I be embarrassed to be seen in such get-up, I'd be embarrassed to be seen belaying someone that dogmatic about *safety.*

But....that's just me.


I do have the PAS, and though I've considered ditching it and just going with rope or a sling tie-in, it still has a lot of life on it. I don't think I would pay, what is it now - $30?, for a new one. The PAS was suggested to be(by a self-professed safety nazi) when I was a brand new newb. I admit that I sort of like being able to have the options of lengths, when anchored in at a little ledge.


- I girth hitch it to the top tie-in only.
- I check it, and harness point, every so often to see the wear. So far, not any, really, after 5 years use on multipitch and rap anchor clip-in use.

Someone once freaked out that I had only one point hitched, insisting I was gonna die. I agreed - I would, someday die. After all - nobody gets out alive. But it would be extremely unlikely to be from gear failure.

Still, I obediantly switched it out to do both tie-in points, and every damned time I put the harness on with that set up, found myself annoyed trying to thread the rope tie-in(especially with doubles), and also a vague annoyance due to the harness feeling off balance with the bunched up lower tie-point. I switched back to one tie point the next time I checked for wear.


You know what I think is WAY more important than how one clips themselves in? Keeping hydrated, energy level in balance through nutrition, and wearing adequate clothing. I bet a LOT more people die from fucking up their anchor/rap set up because they were bonking, dehydrated or in hypothermia mode, than all the one's(RIP Skinner, and in no way discounting the tragic loss to his family and friends) whose harness or tie-in cling broke due to wear.
Yea, the pic kind of sucks. If you click on it the image will become larger and you can see things a bit more clearly.

The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

No I donít have any aid accents in my log because we donít have any established aid lines here to mark in my log. But I can still practice aid climbing as we have lots of cracks. I originally got the harness pictured for bolting because itís uncomfortable to be sitting on rap well bolting in a G string sport climbing harness. Since it was so comfortable I used it for free climbing. However I didnít get the PAS's until after the harness had been damaged. Before that I used a dyneema sling wrapped through the tie in points.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 25, 2010, 8:38 AM)


jt512


Apr 25, 2010, 8:25 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay


USnavy


Apr 25, 2010, 8:33 AM
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Re: [jt512] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Your right, you caught me. The double belay loops are not for convince, I made that up. Hanging 2k feet off the ground off a single point of failure system is actually a great idea. Using two daisy chains in aid climbing is completely unheard of. When ascending a fixed line its cool to only be tied into one ascender with one PAS and nothing else. I am glad you have so much experience in aid and big wall techniques that you can set me in my place.

No I am not an aid expert but I know the basics. But it doesnít even matter as none of this has anything to do with aid. The advantages of two belay loops and two PAS's extend beyond just aid climbing.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 25, 2010, 8:46 AM)


jt512


Apr 25, 2010, 8:59 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Your right, you caught me. The double belay loops are not for convince, I made that up. Hanging 2k feet off the ground off a single point of failure system is actually a great idea. Using two daisy chains in aid climbing is completely unheard of. When ascending a fixed line its cool to only be tied into one ascender with one PAS and nothing else. I am glad you have so much experience in aid and big wall techniques that you can set me in my place.

No I am not an aid expert but I know the basics. But it doesnít even matter as none of this has anything to do with aid. The advantages of two belay loops and two PAS's extend beyond just aid climbing.

You forgot the "Trust me" that time.

Jay


jmeizis


Apr 25, 2010, 9:13 AM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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There's a reason manufacturers recommend tying the rope through the tie in points and not the belay loop, because it is meant and designed to handle soft goods flopping around in there. The rope probably causes far more wear moving around than any daisy/PAS/chicken/safety slings which don't move around that much.

Aside from that if you think that those items are necessary for anything besides aid climbing then here's a quick safety and efficiency tip. The climbing rope, being dynamic, is a safer way to attach ones self to a belay anchor in a multipitch situation. It's also more adjustable, easier to find, and cleans up your harness so there isn't some damn sling screwing up re-racking. If you're on single pitch stuff where you're just threading the anchor then take two long draws off your harness and clip them to the anchor and your harness. Then follow your normal rethreading/rappeling procedure.

If you're aid climbing and you're girth hitching your daisies to your belay loop(s) then you're probably doing the same with your fifi which means you're not getting as close to your pieces as you could be. Not really a safety issue but it does suggest a certain lack of efficiency.

Soft goods (slings, ropes, webbing, cordage) go through the tie-in points. Hard goods (carabiners) go through the belay loop. I'm just waiting for someone to say they belay with their carabiner through their tie-in loops. That'd be the stupid icing on this dumbass cake.


moose_droppings


Apr 25, 2010, 9:23 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for.

You should try roped climbing and have it tied into your harness, it will give you a backup to that single point failure.


USnavy


Apr 25, 2010, 10:00 AM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for.

You should try roped climbing and have it tied into your harness, it will give you a backup to that single point failure.
Yea I have used the rope before. I just prefer the PAS's. They are also versatile coming in handy for jumaring, aid, tying into belay stations, bolting, and lots of other stuff.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 25, 2010, 10:01 AM)


rtwilli4


Apr 25, 2010, 9:02 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
your talking like USNAVY is JOHN LONG

our combat commando does not know the difference between home-depot nails and climbing pitons arguing with everyone here including some of the stonemasters.

do whatever you feel is right and do not worry about our boy. he is just too fresh to give climbing advice.

It doesn't matter who said it... just that it got me thinking about the way I teach. I'm a guide and I like to know different opinions. I know both are safe. Believe me, I don't take anything that any of you say TOO seriously... after all, I think there are only two or three people on here that I know in the real world.


bennydh


Apr 25, 2010, 10:45 PM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.


ryanb


Apr 25, 2010, 11:38 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Honest question for all the non dedicated sling users on this thread. What do you do when you are leading in blocks/not swapping leads?


bill413


Apr 26, 2010, 7:07 AM
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Re: [ryanb] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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ryanb wrote:
bennydh wrote:
If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Honest question for all the non dedicated sling users on this thread. What do you do when you are leading in blocks/not swapping leads?

I build the anchor with cordellette/equallette/slings/whatever; create master point & clip rope to that. Otherwise, tie in direct with rope; second ties in direct with rope; reflake rope... Best to slink second biner on tie-in points for second climber, so don't get too confused over which knot is climber A & which is climber B when going to untie.


potreroed


Apr 26, 2010, 6:34 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.

So you're doing multiple rappels coming down off a multi-pitch climb, what do you use to clip in with while you're rigging the rappels? Here's where my worthless piece of shit PAS, which weighs next to nothing, really shines.


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Apr 27, 2010, 6:04 AM
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I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!


boymeetsrock


Apr 27, 2010, 7:47 AM
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Ha! I want need the attention, ahem, down there. No matter what the reason, or the consequences !!! Tongue


kennoyce


Apr 27, 2010, 8:25 AM
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I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.


potreroed


Apr 27, 2010, 8:48 AM
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happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

I don't understand that under the crotch thing either--especially having only one remaining testicle!!


kachoong


Apr 27, 2010, 9:00 AM
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happiegrrrl wrote:
I know some of the manufacturers made the double belay loop after Skinner bit the dust(RIP) when his belay loop busted through from overuse(overuse to the extreme that I doubt ANYONE who has time to post regularly to this website could ever come near achieving). It was a manufacturers marketing reaction to an unfortunate, but very widely publicized, event in our community. People actually ditched their perfectly good harnesses to buy the double loop. Well, it was good for the outdoor rec economy, I suppose.

Harnesses with two belay loops have been around a lot longer than since Skinner died.


jmeizis wrote:
Soft goods (slings, ropes, webbing, cordage) go through the tie-in points. Hard goods (carabiners) go through the belay loop. I'm just waiting for someone to say they belay with their carabiner through their tie-in loops. That'd be the stupid icing on this dumbass cake.

That seems very black or white. For the first three years I climbed I used an alpine bod harness, which doesn't have any belay loop. Carabiner through the tie in points to belay was a matter of neccessity in that circumstance.


jt512


Apr 27, 2010, 9:29 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

I don't understand that under the crotch thing either--especially having only one remaining testicle!!

Okay, that was more detail than necessary.

Jay


hafilax


Apr 27, 2010, 10:20 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

I don't understand that under the crotch thing either--especially having only one remaining testicle!!
Whillans accident?


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 10:28 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.

So you're doing multiple rappels coming down off a multi-pitch climb, what do you use to clip in with while you're rigging the rappels? Here's where my worthless piece of shit PAS, which weighs next to nothing, really shines.

A long sling.

I only use daisies for aid climbing, and never use a PAS.

I have one partner who keeps all kinds of crap permanently hitched to his crotch. I think it's ridiculous, and personally I'd hate it, but to each their own.

GO


phile


Apr 27, 2010, 10:36 AM
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Re: [kachoong] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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kachoong wrote:

jmeizis wrote:
Soft goods (slings, ropes, webbing, cordage) go through the tie-in points. Hard goods (carabiners) go through the belay loop. I'm just waiting for someone to say they belay with their carabiner through their tie-in loops. That'd be the stupid icing on this dumbass cake.

That seems very black or white. For the first three years I climbed I used an alpine bod harness, which doesn't have any belay loop. Carabiner through the tie in points to belay was a matter of neccessity in that circumstance.

+1 I use an alpine bod for my gym harness. stupid icing on dumbass cake? shrug. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... brah.


bill413


Apr 27, 2010, 10:45 AM
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Re: [kachoong] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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kachoong wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I know some of the manufacturers made the double belay loop after Skinner bit the dust(RIP) when his belay loop busted through from overuse(overuse to the extreme that I doubt ANYONE who has time to post regularly to this website could ever come near achieving). It was a manufacturers marketing reaction to an unfortunate, but very widely publicized, event in our community. People actually ditched their perfectly good harnesses to buy the double loop. Well, it was good for the outdoor rec economy, I suppose.

Harnesses with two belay loops have been around a lot longer than since Skinner died.


jmeizis wrote:
Soft goods (slings, ropes, webbing, cordage) go through the tie-in points. Hard goods (carabiners) go through the belay loop. I'm just waiting for someone to say they belay with their carabiner through their tie-in loops. That'd be the stupid icing on this dumbass cake.

That seems very black or white. For the first three years I climbed I used an alpine bod harness, which doesn't have any belay loop. Carabiner through the tie in points to belay was a matter of neccessity in that circumstance.

Yes, no belay loop on the bod. It was designed that way, and you clip/tie in the way it was designed. Back to following manufacturers directions.


justroberto


Apr 27, 2010, 10:51 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
USnavy wrote:
Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for.

You should try roped climbing and have it tied into your harness, it will give you a backup to that single point failure.
Yea I have used the rope before. I just prefer the PAS's. They are also versatile coming in handy for jumaring, aid, tying into belay stations, bolting, and lots of other stuff.
You're not fooling anyone.


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.

So you're doing multiple rappels coming down off a multi-pitch climb, what do you use to clip in with while you're rigging the rappels? Here's where my worthless piece of shit PAS, which weighs next to nothing, really shines.

I have this thing called a "runner." Some call it a sling. Its clipped to my harness with 2 biners already on it. When I need to anchor in at a rap station, one end goes to the anchor, the other to my harness, clip clip!.

Its a beautiful thing!

I'd be happy to make you a demo video if you think it will help!

DMT


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 10:56 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

I don't understand that under the crotch thing either--especially having only one remaining testicle!!

Every gang has to have a One Ball Charlie!

DMT


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: [kennoyce] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 11:07 AM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

I don't understand that under the crotch thing either--especially having only one remaining testicle!!

He'd better watch out, that last one might get slap-chopped.

http://vodpod.com/...-parody-love-my-nuts


csproul


Apr 27, 2010, 11:40 AM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.
See, to me, that sounds like a lot of clutter.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 11:59 AM
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Re: [csproul] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.
See, to me, that sounds like a lot of clutter.

Then you're probably not envisioning it correctly. No more clutter than 2 biners and a runner, except the runner has some knots in it.


csproul


Apr 27, 2010, 12:09 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.
See, to me, that sounds like a lot of clutter.

Then you're probably not envisioning it correctly. No more clutter than 2 biners and a runner, except the runner has some knots in it.
No it's not that...it's that you are carrying something that is always there and serves no other purpose, unlike the pair of slings/draws I have already carried up to use while climbing. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your system (or the PAS, or whatever else). You can use whatever you like and it's cool with me. I just have no desire to carry any extraneous equipment for the extra convenience of a personal anchoring system. You obviously feel it is worth the added convenience, and that's ok too.


bennydh


Apr 27, 2010, 12:30 PM
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Re: [csproul] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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csproul & Dingus,

I'm amazed that either of you would carry something that is already likely to be on your harness whilst climbing, and to use that in a practical application instead of carry a PAS, or the likes... Lunacy. Pure craziness.

Dingus, I like this insight better than the 'small circle of friends' insight, on the topic of unsolicitation. Tongue


Stormeh


Apr 27, 2010, 12:47 PM
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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I carry a PAS girth hitched around my tie in points, and it's pretty nice. Before I bought the PAS I used extendable slings and biners, and the PAS is a bit nicer than that due to the adjustability of it. Not sure if it's $30 + clutter nicer, but still nicer.

It's amazing to me that we can get 3 pages of discussion on this issue (which is clearly a SMALL issue of preference,) yet useful threads often die on the vine around here.

But man, this thread has some awesome posts from Majid in it.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 12:51 PM
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Re: [csproul] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.
See, to me, that sounds like a lot of clutter.

Then you're probably not envisioning it correctly. No more clutter than 2 biners and a runner, except the runner has some knots in it.
No it's not that...it's that you are carrying something that is always there and serves no other purpose, unlike the pair of slings/draws I have already carried up to use while climbing. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your system (or the PAS, or whatever else). You can use whatever you like and it's cool with me. I just have no desire to carry any extraneous equipment for the extra convenience of a personal anchoring system. You obviously feel it is worth the added convenience, and that's ok too.

I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

1. I carry the minimal slings and pro that I anticipate I will need, so it's not uncommon that I've used all my slings up by the top of the pitch (your 2 slings/draws are just as much extraneous gear as my tether if you didn't use them on the pitch).

2. Adjustability is important to me for those situations where anchor placement doesn't facilitate optimal belay position.

3. It's faster than using the rope (clip, clip, done), especially at hanging belays, and leaves the full length of rope available for those occasional maxed out pitches.

4. It impresses the honeys.

See? You're technique requires just as much extraneous gear as mine, but you get none of the above benefits.

Sly


csproul


Apr 27, 2010, 1:10 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.
See, to me, that sounds like a lot of clutter.

Then you're probably not envisioning it correctly. No more clutter than 2 biners and a runner, except the runner has some knots in it.
No it's not that...it's that you are carrying something that is always there and serves no other purpose, unlike the pair of slings/draws I have already carried up to use while climbing. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your system (or the PAS, or whatever else). You can use whatever you like and it's cool with me. I just have no desire to carry any extraneous equipment for the extra convenience of a personal anchoring system. You obviously feel it is worth the added convenience, and that's ok too.

I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

1. I carry the minimal slings and pro that I anticipate I will need, so it's not uncommon that I've used all my slings up by the top of the pitch (your 2 slings/draws are just as much extraneous gear as my tether if you didn't use them on the pitch).

2. Adjustability is important to me for those situations where anchor placement doesn't facilitate optimal belay position.

3. It's faster than using the rope (clip, clip, done), especially at hanging belays, and leaves the full length of rope available for those occasional maxed out pitches.

4. It impresses the honeys.

See? You're technique requires just as much extraneous gear as mine, but you get none of the above benefits.

Sly
I don't use slings to anchor when I get to the end of a pitch, I use the rope. So I still can arrive at the belay without slings, and I still have less gear than you do. So argument #1 doesn't mean a lot to me. Adjustability...I use the rope, so I can anchor in as long or short as I like, so argument #2 doesn't mean a whole lot to me either. It may be faster (I doubt it), but not enough that I'm going to worry about it.

The only place I can see some benefit would be while rapping off a route and having a more adjustable tether at rap stations. In this case, it is extraneous gear; you and I would still be carrying the gear we climbed up with, and you would be carrying an extra piece of gear. You find some value in carrying this extra gear. I do not. As far as the honeys...I doubt I'd want any of the girls that'd be impressed with a Purcell Prusik.

I'm still not sure why people get worked up about this. Like I said, I don't care what you or my climbing partners use, as long as it's safe. If y'all want to carry a daisy/sling/Purcell/PAS...whatever...knock yourself out, as long as you are safe and can use your system efficiently.


(This post was edited by csproul on Apr 27, 2010, 1:14 PM)


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 1:18 PM
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csproul wrote:
I'm still not sure why people get worked up about this.

Because when you criticize climbing tool usage you are really criticizing the climbing tools themselves!

Hah!

DMT


swoopee


Apr 27, 2010, 1:19 PM
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hafilax wrote:
potreroed wrote:
happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

I don't understand that under the crotch thing either--especially having only one remaining testicle!!
Whillans accident?

So I am not the only one who didn't like the Whillans Sit Harness? I still have mine. I sometimes think I will break it out and wear it at the gym, but then I come to my senses. Wink

BTW, I actually like the PAS and keep one girth hitched to my belay loop. Every time I put my harness on, I inspect both the PAS and belay loop for wear, and turn the belay loop. I don't pass the PAS under my crotch though. I still have a Whillans if I ever want to do massive damage to that area.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 1:26 PM
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Re: [csproul] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
csproul wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
kennoyce wrote:
I'm with Jay on this one. I can't stand having anything girth hitched to either the belay loop or the tie in points. Girth hitched shoulder length slings always seem to be just a tad short for comfort, and I'm not about to drop $30+ on a PAS. I also like having as little on my belay loop/tie in points as possible to keep things a bit simpler. I find that it is really not much more difficult to use two trad draws with lockers that I have to clip to my belay loop. This method keeps my belay loop much less clustered than having something girth hitched to it.

I'm the same way about clutter on the front of my harness, can't stand it. Nothing stays there that isn't being used.

I use a modified version of a purcell prusik, made of 18ft 5mm cord, doubled so it's fully redundant along it's whole length. It's adjustable from 2 to 5 feet, and the anchor end has 2 ears so I can clip 2 anchor points if I want to. For about $7 worth of cord I have a tether that is better than a PAS.
See, to me, that sounds like a lot of clutter.

Then you're probably not envisioning it correctly. No more clutter than 2 biners and a runner, except the runner has some knots in it.
No it's not that...it's that you are carrying something that is always there and serves no other purpose, unlike the pair of slings/draws I have already carried up to use while climbing. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with your system (or the PAS, or whatever else). You can use whatever you like and it's cool with me. I just have no desire to carry any extraneous equipment for the extra convenience of a personal anchoring system. You obviously feel it is worth the added convenience, and that's ok too.

I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

1. I carry the minimal slings and pro that I anticipate I will need, so it's not uncommon that I've used all my slings up by the top of the pitch (your 2 slings/draws are just as much extraneous gear as my tether if you didn't use them on the pitch).

2. Adjustability is important to me for those situations where anchor placement doesn't facilitate optimal belay position.

3. It's faster than using the rope (clip, clip, done), especially at hanging belays, and leaves the full length of rope available for those occasional maxed out pitches.

4. It impresses the honeys.

See? You're technique requires just as much extraneous gear as mine, but you get none of the above benefits.

Sly
I don't use slings to anchor when I get to the end of a pitch, I use the rope. So I still can arrive at the belay without slings, and I still have less gear than you do. So argument #1 doesn't mean a lot to me. Adjustability...I use the rope, so I can anchor in as long or short as I like, so argument #2 doesn't mean a whole lot to me either. It may be faster (I doubt it), but not enough that I'm going to worry about it.

The only place I can see some benefit would be while rapping off a route and having a more adjustable tether at rap stations. In this case, it is extraneous gear; you and I would still be carrying the gear we climbed up with, and you would be carrying an extra piece of gear. You find some value in carrying this extra gear. I do not. As far as the honeys...I doubt I'd want any of the girls that'd be impressed with a Purcell Prusik.

I'm still not sure why people get worked up about this. Like I said, I don't care what you or my climbing partners use, as long as it's safe. If y'all want to carry a daisy/sling/Purcell/PAS...whatever...knock yourself out, as long as you are safe and can use your system efficiently.

Well you haven't seen the honeys I pull, now have you? Heheh.

I rarely use the rope to anchor because most of the time I'm leading in blocks, so that makes the benefits of more value to me than they would be to you.

I'm with you on whatever fits one's preferences as long as it is safe. No gettin worked up, just yackin about nerdy crap.


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 1:28 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 1:32 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 1:35 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
I rarely use the rope to anchor because most of the time I'm leading in blocks, so that makes the benefits of more value to me than they would be to you.

???

Sorry, but that makes no sense that I can see. Let's say I'm leading in blocks. My second gets to the anchor, gives me the gear, and puts me on belay. Here's what I have to do to start leading:

1 - Unclip one locking biner from my anchor and pop the clove hitch off it.
2 - Clip the biner to a gear loop.

Wow, that was hard. Do explain how your method saves so much time compared to mine.

GO


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 1:42 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?

Anyone who claims to be a weight nazi should be. Aside from rappelling, the tie in rope is always the perfect thing to anchor in with, unless you've invented a weightless purcell prusic?

GO


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 1:56 PM
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Re: Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Why does every gear thread here turn into a pissing match?

DMT


bennydh


Apr 27, 2010, 1:59 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?

Anyone who claims to be a weight nazi should be. Aside from rappelling, the tie in rope is always the perfect thing to anchor in with, unless you've invented a weightless purcell prusic?

GO

I invented a weightless and invisible purcell prusic... unfortunately its even more impractical than a visible one. I often forget where I put it on my harness, and I have to use extendables, or use cloves on the rope end I'm tied into instead. Unsure


majid_sabet


Apr 27, 2010, 2:04 PM
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dingus wrote:
Why does every gear thread here turn into a pissing match?

DMT

I love pissing match in RC. its entertaining after page 4


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 2:24 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?

Anyone who claims to be a weight nazi should be. Aside from rappelling, the tie in rope is always the perfect thing to anchor in with, unless you've invented a weightless purcell prusic?

GO

Well if you think weight is my only consideration then you didn't read my posts very well. I trade the weight of some gear for the weight of other gear that offers me more benefit. I trade a couple slings for 3 ounces of cord that gives me more benefits than just using the rope does.


patmay81


Apr 27, 2010, 2:32 PM
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angry wrote:
To prevent the wear, I cannibalized a Mammut harness with the little plastic tie in protector thing. The new harness has been used about 120 days and still looks brand new.

I'll transfer that little plastic thingy from one harness to another now that I've got it. Too bad only Mammut harnesses come with it.

I just tossed an old Mammut harness, i didnt even think about pulling the plastic tie in protector off! thats a great idea, I shoulda kept it... oh well, better luck next time.


hafilax


Apr 27, 2010, 2:33 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?

Anyone who claims to be a weight nazi should be. Aside from rappelling, the tie in rope is always the perfect thing to anchor in with, unless you've invented a weightless purcell prusic?

GO

Well if you think weight is my only consideration then you didn't read my posts very well. I trade the weight of some gear for the weight of other gear that offers me more benefit. I trade a couple slings for 3 ounces of cord that gives me more benefits than just using the rope does.
Could someone write this out as an equation for me. I'd really like to optimize this properly.


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 2:38 PM
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?

Anyone who claims to be a weight nazi should be. Aside from rappelling, the tie in rope is always the perfect thing to anchor in with, unless you've invented a weightless purcell prusic?

GO

Well if you think weight is my only consideration then you didn't read my posts very well. I trade the weight of some gear for the weight of other gear that offers me more benefit. I trade a couple slings for 3 ounces of cord that gives me more benefits than just using the rope does.

Which "couple of slings" is that? You're trading a purcell prussic for the *nothing* that I carry. You keep missing the point that you're simply carrying *extra* gear.

If it makes you happy, cool. But calling yourself a "weight nazi" is just kinda funny to me.

GO


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 2:44 PM
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cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I rarely use the rope to anchor because most of the time I'm leading in blocks, so that makes the benefits of more value to me than they would be to you.

???

Sorry, but that makes no sense that I can see. Let's say I'm leading in blocks. My second gets to the anchor, gives me the gear, and puts me on belay. Here's what I have to do to start leading:

1 - Unclip one locking biner from my anchor and pop the clove hitch off it.
2 - Clip the biner to a gear loop.

Wow, that was hard. Do explain how your method saves so much time compared to mine.

GO

I took CSPROULís comment as he was using the rope to rig the primary anchor, perhaps he isnít.

But, Iím not just talking about speed in leaving the belay, but speed and ease in creating the belay, and as Iíve already mentioned, especially at hanging belays.

And, my usual multi-pitch rope is my set of 7.7mm ice twins, because they give me full length rappels for the weight of a single rope. One disadvantage of 2 skinny cords is that they can get tangled easier, and flipping the stack doesnít always prevent that issue, so itís not unusual that I will switch ends of the rope.

Another advantage over using the rope is that I can adjust my tether even when Iím out of armís length from the anchor because the way I rigged it the prusik always remains 8 inches from my harness.

And donít forget, I get the honeys.


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 3:04 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I rarely use the rope to anchor because most of the time I'm leading in blocks, so that makes the benefits of more value to me than they would be to you.

???

Sorry, but that makes no sense that I can see. Let's say I'm leading in blocks. My second gets to the anchor, gives me the gear, and puts me on belay. Here's what I have to do to start leading:

1 - Unclip one locking biner from my anchor and pop the clove hitch off it.
2 - Clip the biner to a gear loop.

Wow, that was hard. Do explain how your method saves so much time compared to mine.

GO

I took CSPROULís comment as he was using the rope to rig the primary anchor, perhaps he isnít.

Huh? This whole thread has been about attachments to the anchor! Or are you going to tell me that you've been arguing about using your purcell prussic itself as an anchor, now? Like, instead of a cordelette or whatever?

In reply to:
But, Iím not just talking about speed in leaving the belay, but speed and ease in creating the belay, and as Iíve already mentioned, especially at hanging belays.

Hmm... okay - I get to belay, and I either:
1 - clove hitch rope to anchor, adjust (if I'm going to be within four feet of the anchor) or
2 - clip rope through locking biner on the anchor, walk/climb back to where I'm belaying, clove hitch to locker on my belay loop (if I'm five to thirty feet from the anchor.)

Quick, and much more versatile than your purcell prussic. And, again, no extra gear.

In reply to:
And, my usual multi-pitch rope is my set of 7.7mm ice twins, because they give me full length rappels for the weight of a single rope. One disadvantage of 2 skinny cords is that they can get tangled easier, and flipping the stack doesnít always prevent that issue, so itís not unusual that I will switch ends of the rope.

Okay. Since you and your second are both at the anchor, and there are tons of slings, I don't know why you need a separate piece of gear just to trade ends of the rope. But sure, if it makes you happy, that's cool. Not even relevant for my climbing, though. If I lead in blocks, I usually just have the second reflake the rope(s) from their end as I grab gear off their harness.

In reply to:
Another advantage over using the rope is that I can adjust my tether even when Iím out of armís length from the anchor because the way I rigged it the prusik always remains 8 inches from my harness.

You don't have nearly the adjustability I do. See above.

In reply to:
And donít forget, I get the honeys.

I'm all set on that front. <insert bad joke about how much she enjoys how I use my rope>

GO


Partner cracklover


Apr 27, 2010, 3:05 PM
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dingus wrote:
Why does every gear thread here turn into a pissing match?

DMT

Same reason why you post what you post, brother Toast: because it's FUN!

GO


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 3:13 PM
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cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
The guy who carries the purcell prussic wrote:
I am a weight nazi, so I carry nothing I won't need.

Hahahahaha!

That's a good one!

Because yeah, when I'm rappelling, I've used up all my slings on what, exactly?

Don't get me wrong, at least your purcel prussic is better than that POS, I mean PAS so many folks are carrying around. But both are not "needed" whatsoever in multipitch sport or trad.

GO

Who is talking about rappelling?

Anyone who claims to be a weight nazi should be. Aside from rappelling, the tie in rope is always the perfect thing to anchor in with, unless you've invented a weightless purcell prusic?

GO

Well if you think weight is my only consideration then you didn't read my posts very well. I trade the weight of some gear for the weight of other gear that offers me more benefit. I trade a couple slings for 3 ounces of cord that gives me more benefits than just using the rope does.

Which "couple of slings" is that? You're trading a purcell prussic for the *nothing* that I carry. You keep missing the point that you're simply carrying *extra* gear.

If it makes you happy, cool. But calling yourself a "weight nazi" is just kinda funny to me.

GO

Dude, try to follow the conversation. My comments about trading a couple slings for a purcell prusik were in comparing my system to someone else's not yours, mkay?

And you arenít carrying *nothing*. Youíre carrying extra length of rope to clove hitch in with. You didnít need it on the pitch, did you? Well you should chop it off and only carry the amount of rope you need then, because I guarantee you my cord weighs less than that extra rope youíre lugging around all over the place. Haha!

And I've already said, weight is not the only factor, if it were we would all just be free-soloing all the time. There is a cost/benefit. For the cost of 3 ounces I receive a bunch of benefits that I've already listed.

It is the sum of all factors that is important. What is the least amount of gear, that gives me the highest amount of flexibility, in the broadest of circumstances? For me, that is my rig, hands down.

And those 3 ounces make it easy for me to use a very lightweight rope system, and not have to bring a second rope or a dedicated rap cord for full length rappels, so clearly, Iím a better weight nazi than you. ;)


bennydh


Apr 27, 2010, 4:00 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
Dude, try to follow the conversation...

...you arenít carrying *nothing*. Youíre carrying extra length of rope to clove hitch in with. You didnít need it on the pitch, did you? Well you should chop it off and only carry the amount of rope you need then, because I guarantee you my cord weighs less than that extra rope youíre lugging around all over the place. Haha!

...so clearly, Iím a BIGGER RETARD nazi than you. ;)

I'm trying to understand your argument about the extra rope... Please explain more clearly. Do you have a rope that is the absolute length of every climb you do? No one is actually talking about having extra rope attached to them. Its quite the contrary. On the other hand you have the same amount of rope, all the draws you needed, cams, AND the addition of a PAS.

Your PAS is an ACCESSORY, that adds weight and bulk.

Besides all that ridiculousness... you know the rope is only as heavy as the length from the belayer to your harness, plus drag, whilst climbing. Unless you are doing something incredibly wrong. Unsure

If you are, then please share your bulk and weight saving techniques that add bulk and weight. I'd like to snicker a bunch more.Pirate


(This post was edited by bennydh on Apr 27, 2010, 4:02 PM)


edge


Apr 27, 2010, 4:28 PM
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As an interesting aside, a thread came up a while ago on the Taco that asked about the worth of just plain cutting off the belay loop. That's right, just hacking it off.

Posters like Werner Braun advocated leaving it on as a convenience, but stated they preferred to clip into both parts of a harness to belay.

I am sure this will set off major triggers in the gym crowd, as well as those that believe there is only one correct way to do things. Bottom line is that there are as many ways to things as there are climbers. I, for one, also prefer to have my locking biner clipped through both tie-in points because it orients the belay device in a zone and orientation that best fits me being able to use it. I believe this to be a huge reason to maintain the status quo.

I pay enough attention to the locker during this process that it will not be crossloaded during a fall. It is far more inconvenient to have my ATC 6" away from my harness.

I learned this way, it is hard wired, it is how I will continue to operate. In 31 years, I have never dropped anyone, ever.

I don't bring other elements into the equation to tie off. I am already tied into a rope, and likely packing left-over slings. If you can't figure out how to safely transition with either of those, then I can recommend a killer top rope instructor operating out of Devil's Lake who would love your money.

These systems have a long standing history of safety. It is only because of internet hand wringing, n00b input, and the occasional anchor failure by those who never should have posted (reference internet hand wringing) that all of these systems have become necessary.

Do whatever makes you feel confident. Make sure that your belayer/belayee feels the same way. Don't bring unnecessary gear.

Replace your harness if you think it looks worn. Yer Mom will thank you.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 4:34 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
Huh? This whole thread has been about attachments to the anchor! Or are you going to tell me that you've been arguing about using your purcell prussic itself as an anchor, now? Like, instead of a cordelette or whatever?

ďI don't use slings to anchor when I get to the end of a pitch, I use the rope. So I still can arrive at the belay without slingsĒ

I assume he uses something to rig the primary anchor. If he has no slings itís either the rope or some specialized rig. He said he uses the rope, but l probably misread that. But now that you mention it, in desperate situations, under certain conditions, my rig could be used to rig the primary anchor. Yet another benefit!

But this isnít material to the discussion, sooooooo, your point?

cracklover wrote:
Hmm... okay - I get to belay, and I either:
1 - clove hitch rope to anchor, adjust (if I'm going to be within four feet of the anchor) or
2 - clip rope through locking biner on the anchor, walk/climb back to where I'm belaying, clove hitch to locker on my belay loop (if I'm five to thirty feet from the anchor.)

Wow! Somebody constructs an anchor for you ahead of time that you just clip right in to? Thatís way cool, dude! Youíre right, your system is way easier and way faster than mine! I sure wish I had some of them magic anchors like you do! Iím not so lucky. I usually have to place gear, get my weight off the rope, rig the anchor, tie and clip the rope to the master point, etc.

cracklover wrote:
And, again, no extra gear.

Except that extra length of rope your hauling, which is heavier than my rig, you weight libertine.

cracklover wrote:
Okay. Since you and your second are both at the anchor, and there are tons of slings, I don't know why you need a separate piece of gear just to trade ends of the rope. But sure, if it makes you happy, that's cool. Not even relevant for my climbing, though. If I lead in blocks, I usually just have the second reflake the rope(s) from their end as I grab gear off their harness.

Making 2 biner clips is easier and faster (and more secure in the dark) than clove hitching 2 ropes. Especially at a hanging belay where I will need to get my weight off the rope. And 2 ropes means I would need to clove into 2 biners. Already itís more complex, cluttered, and has more possibility for fuck-up than my rig. The moment Iíve clipped my rig into a piece to get my weight off the rope so I can rig the anchor, Iím already ahead of the clove-hitch-the-rope-game, and the ease and convenience just keeps on a-flowin from there.

Not all belays stations are conducive to flaking. Some of them can be quite awkward once the second gets there, and if Iíve already got the ropes in a decent stack there is no point in restacking them when in an awkward place (especially if time is critical), itís much easier just to switch ends.

cracklover wrote:
You don't have nearly the adjustability I do. See above.

ďIt is the sum of all factors that is important. What is the least amount of gear, that gives me the highest amount of flexibility, in the broadest of circumstances? For me, that is my rig, hands down.Ē

99% of the time my rig provides all the adjustability I need. I wouldnít trade away all its benefits for that rare occasion that itís not long enough.


Summary:
Iím saving tons of weight with my twins, 9-10 pounds less than dragging another single rope. 3 ounces of cord make my whole system easier, faster, and more convenient. Itís an easy decision.


moose_droppings


Apr 27, 2010, 4:51 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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cracklover wrote:
I'm all set on that front. <insert bad joke about how much she enjoys how I use my rope>

GO

She showed a piece of 3mm perlon for comparison and said it would make a stiffer pool cue.
Tongue


bennydh


Apr 27, 2010, 4:57 PM
Post #82 of 146 (1755 views)
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
Summary:
Itís easy to continue to follow my own broken logic versus, trying to understand the ease and practicality of other systems .

Blah, Blah, no one cares anymore dooder. Find a resources for building anchors, and pay special attention to the sections regarding attaching oneself to the anchor. God forbid you find a resource written before the introduction of a PAS.


blueeyedclimber


Apr 27, 2010, 5:19 PM
Post #83 of 146 (1747 views)
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Re: [hugepedro] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:

Except that extra length of rope your hauling, which is heavier than my rig, you weight libertine.

All right, you've said this a couple times. Are you saying that because you are not using the rope to anchor in that what you would have used just disappears? Or did you cut it off? Are you climbing on a 59m rope?

Look, I don't care if you use a PAS, but don't make shit up.

Josh


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 5:26 PM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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If I may...

My first rope was a 150' Goldline.

My next couple of kernmantles were also 150s. Then 165s came along and wow, that was like (fingers and toes, brother, fingers and toes), um, 15 extra feet!

Why that was enough to use the rope at the end of each 150' pitch to rig a belay! Wow!

Fast forward many years and 180s showed up. Now we could send those 165' pitches and STILL HAVE SOME ROPE LEFT! TO RIG THE BELAY!!!111111

Then 200s showed up. GODDAMN ROPES ARE HEAVY THESE DAYS!

So now we have enough cord left over from those 180 foot pitches rig the belay, yee hah!

Now I see climbers are maintaining 70 meter ropes are the way to go, even 80! EIGHTY FUCKING METERS! That's like... a lot of feet man!

I was telling my pard last weekend, that for trad, I totally prefer a 180 rope over a 200. For sport, other way around (of course).

For simulclimbing I like a 165 or even a 150.

Sorry for mixing measuring systems btw.

DMT


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 5:30 PM
Post #85 of 146 (1732 views)
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Dude, try to follow the conversation...

...you arenít carrying *nothing*. Youíre carrying extra length of rope to clove hitch in with. You didnít need it on the pitch, did you? Well you should chop it off and only carry the amount of rope you need then, because I guarantee you my cord weighs less than that extra rope youíre lugging around all over the place. Haha!

...so clearly, Iím a BIGGER RETARD nazi than you. ;)

I'm trying to understand your argument about the extra rope... Please explain more clearly. Do you have a rope that is the absolute length of every climb you do? No one is actually talking about having extra rope attached to them. Its quite the contrary. On the other hand you have the same amount of rope, all the draws you needed, cams, AND the addition of a PAS.

Your PAS is an ACCESSORY, that adds weight and bulk.

Besides all that ridiculousness... you know the rope is only as heavy as the length from the belayer to your harness, plus drag, whilst climbing. Unless you are doing something incredibly wrong. Unsure

If you are, then please share your bulk and weight saving techniques that add bulk and weight. I'd like to snicker a bunch more.Pirate

WHOOOSH! Hahaha.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 5:37 PM
Post #86 of 146 (1722 views)
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Re: [bennydh] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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bennydh wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Summary:
Itís easy to continue to follow my own broken logic versus, trying to understand the ease and practicality of other systems .

Blah, Blah, no one cares anymore dooder. Find a resources for building anchors, and pay special attention to the sections regarding attaching oneself to the anchor. God forbid you find a resource written before the introduction of a PAS.

You're an idiot.

I've been climbing longer than you've been alive, and in that time I've used every anchoring technique known to man, and way more than even your Mom.

I've found that my system works the best for me for multi-pitching on twin ropes. You don't have to like it, but you do have to suk it, n00b.


edge


Apr 27, 2010, 5:40 PM
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Re: [dingus] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
If I may...

My first rope was a 150' Goldline.

My next couple of kernmantles were also 150s. Then 165s came along and wow, that was like (fingers and toes, brother, fingers and toes), um, 15 extra feet!

Why that was enough to use the rope at the end of each 150' pitch to rig a belay! Wow!

Fast forward many years and 180s showed up. Now we could send those 165' pitches and STILL HAVE SOME ROPE LEFT! TO RIG THE BELAY!!!111111

Then 200s showed up. GODDAMN ROPES ARE HEAVY THESE DAYS!

So now we have enough cord left over from those 180 foot pitches rig the belay, yee hah!

Now I see climbers are maintaining 70 meter ropes are the way to go, even 80! EIGHTY FUCKING METERS! That's like... a lot of feet man!

I was telling my pard last weekend, that for trad, I totally prefer a 180 rope over a 200. For sport, other way around (of course).

For simulclimbing I like a 165 or even a 150.

Sorry for mixing measuring systems btw.

DMT

Funny, isn't it Dingus, that the young-uns learn one way and lock in?

I will be most certainly turf food in 30 years, but would love to get on the Verizon After Lyfe plan so I can laugh as they realize that us old fokks might actually have had something worthwhile to say...


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 6:22 PM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Except that extra length of rope your hauling, which is heavier than my rig, you weight libertine.

All right, you've said this a couple times. Are you saying that because you are not using the rope to anchor in that what you would have used just disappears? Or did you cut it off? Are you climbing on a 59m rope?

Look, I don't care if you use a PAS, but don't make shit up.

Josh

Well it was a joke. But I can still argue the point, because I'm all logicy, and stuff.

The argument was made that I am carrying an extra 3 ounces of weight by not using the rope to tie in to the anchor. In other words, carrying stuff that has only a single, specialized purpose.

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

Me? I can use every inch of my 200 foot twins on the pitch, and I have done that once in a while (even had to use some of the ropeís stretch a few times). If you use the rope to tie in then you are constrained by your system from ever ever using the full length of the rope on the climb itself. Sooooo, if you are a weight nazi, and you are only ever going to climb 180 foot pitches, you might as well chop off that 4-8 feet and go with a system that is lighter (like mine).


Does any of this really matter? Fuck no. I was merely pointing out the utter ridiculousness of someone trying to mock my weight naziness over 3 ounces, when ounce for ounce the actual usable length/weight ratio of their system is inferior to mine. Donít go telling me Iím carrying extra weight, when my twin rope system with my super sweet rig offers me the best benefit/weight ratio for the situations under which I frequently climb.

And that ainít makin shit up. Them are facts, Jack.



This discussion makes me wonder how often any of you guys use twins, on multipitch, and block leading, if ever.


jmeizis


Apr 27, 2010, 6:34 PM
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Re: [ryanb] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Honest question for all the non dedicated sling users on this thread. What do you do when you are leading in blocks/not swapping leads?

If you're careful about how you flip or restack your ropes it's not a problem. All the belayer has to do is grab the rope behind the clove and put you on belay then you unclove and go.

Are people still really arguing about using PAS/Daisy's and the rope? It takes about one second longer to tie a clove hitch and half the time to find the rope to tie it with. Thus faster than a sling. It's a safer attachment to the anchor. The rope will absorb some impact that a static sling will not. The clove has more adjustability. Wanna go take pictures of your second through the crux but you can't do it tethered there with a four foot sling? That's why you use a clove which can be adjusted through the entire length of the rope, plus when you trip like a clod the rope will absorb the impact and possibly keep you from ripping your anchor out of the wall. It's very easy to find your rope to tie a clove hitch and if you practice just a teensy bit you can do it easily in the dark, you can even do it one handed.

As for belaying through your tie in points, are the people who do that more comfortable taking the additional risk of crossloading and unscrewing the locking mechanism than having the belay device sit farther away? It seems like unnecessary risks to me for the sake of what seems like minimal comfort.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 6:44 PM
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Re: [jt512] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Good catch. That is a lot of misinformation in one paragraph.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 6:46 PM
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Re: [USnavy] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Your right, you caught me. The double belay loops are not for convince, I made that up. Hanging 2k feet off the ground off a single point of failure system is actually a great idea. Using two daisy chains in aid climbing is completely unheard of. When ascending a fixed line its cool to only be tied into one ascender with one PAS and nothing else. I am glad you have so much experience in aid and big wall techniques that you can set me in my place.

No I am not an aid expert but I know the basics. But it doesnít even matter as none of this has anything to do with aid. The advantages of two belay loops and two PAS's extend beyond just aid climbing.

Wow, the hits keep coming.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 6:48 PM
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Re: [ryanb] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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ryanb wrote:
bennydh wrote:
If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Honest question for all the non dedicated sling users on this thread. What do you do when you are leading in blocks/not swapping leads?

If that's the plan I'll add a sling.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 6:50 PM
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Re: [potreroed] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.

So you're doing multiple rappels coming down off a multi-pitch climb, what do you use to clip in with while you're rigging the rappels? Here's where my worthless piece of shit PAS, which weighs next to nothing, really shines.

I clip in with slings or draws. Gear I used while going up that multipitch, with less clutter on my harness. But that's just me. I see why people like the PAS, I just don't care for it. I do think it would be better if it was made out of nylon.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 6:51 PM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
I like the PAS for that reason too(although at the Gunks, "multiple raps" means....2.

But I have seen the few times a partner had tied in with rope and had to switch out for the rappel. Not a big deal, of course, but for myself, I would rather have the PAS(or sling clip-in) off the bat. At least on the pitches where I know I would be rapping from.

The one thing I simply see as truly embarrassing, is when someone runs the PAS or knotted sling(or worse a set of them) from the front of their harness, under their crotch, and to some connection on the back of their harness. Call me a prude - I just don't like drawing attention to "that" part of my body. Or maybe more aptly, if someone is looking at that part of my body, I don't want it to be because I have a *SlingThong* wedgie....

Guys - Imagine taking a screwed up whip and having that thing snag on a tree branch on the way down..... YEOWCH!

The sling thong is actually the best way to keep it out of the way of your gear loops. Which if you're actually leading stuff, is kind of nice.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 6:53 PM
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Re: [dingus] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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dingus wrote:
potreroed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.

So you're doing multiple rappels coming down off a multi-pitch climb, what do you use to clip in with while you're rigging the rappels? Here's where my worthless piece of shit PAS, which weighs next to nothing, really shines.

I have this thing called a "runner." Some call it a sling. Its clipped to my harness with 2 biners already on it. When I need to anchor in at a rap station, one end goes to the anchor, the other to my harness, clip clip!.

Its a beautiful thing!

I'd be happy to make you a demo video if you think it will help!

DMT

Where can I get one of these runners? I went to REI and all they have is slings.


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 7:00 PM
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Re: [caughtinside] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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caughtinside wrote:
dingus wrote:
potreroed wrote:
bennydh wrote:
potreroed wrote:
I personally find it amazing that many experienced climbers don't realize the benefits of the PAS, but you prolly don't do much aid climbing or multi-pitch.

You are right about the aid... maybe for aiding it has practical applications, but for climbing, and multipitch trad climbing, which I've done enough of to know a thing or two about not dragging along extra worthless shit, its even less practical.

If you swing leads with a proficient partner, then you never had to leave your rope end, and can always clove your end to an anchor point.

Be amazed, but to assume that I don't do much multi-pitch climbing, because I haven't been won over by the PAS hype that you've been sold on, is disingenuous to my technical skill set.

So you're doing multiple rappels coming down off a multi-pitch climb, what do you use to clip in with while you're rigging the rappels? Here's where my worthless piece of shit PAS, which weighs next to nothing, really shines.

I have this thing called a "runner." Some call it a sling. Its clipped to my harness with 2 biners already on it. When I need to anchor in at a rap station, one end goes to the anchor, the other to my harness, clip clip!.

Its a beautiful thing!

I'd be happy to make you a demo video if you think it will help!

DMT

Where can I get one of these runners? I went to REI and all they have is slings.

Its an EU thing - can only get them at the flagship REI in London these days.

DMT


mojomonkey


Apr 27, 2010, 7:29 PM
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Re: [jmeizis] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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jmeizis wrote:
[...] when you trip like a clod the rope will absorb the impact and possibly keep you from ripping your anchor out of the wall.

Possibly? How bad was your anchor? And if it is that bad, why are you fiddling with your adjustment to take some photos during the crux?


Gmburns2000


Apr 27, 2010, 7:29 PM
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hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0


mojomonkey


Apr 27, 2010, 7:38 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Good catch. That is a lot of misinformation in one paragraph.

I figure he is at least a big wall pro. Read this post, he says "next big wall". Not first.


johnwesely


Apr 27, 2010, 7:44 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.


(This post was edited by johnwesely on Apr 27, 2010, 7:45 PM)


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 7:59 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Well we arenít climbing the same pitches. Iím climbing longer ones than you because of the constraints of your system. Iím pwning you and gettin all the honeys.

Again, someone was mocking my degree of ďweight nazinessĒ because I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces. This was a hypothetical comparison to demonstrate that my system is actually lighter on a weight per useful length of rope basis (and probably lighter overall if they are doing routes that require full length rappels and arenít using twins or a skinnier rap cord).

Try re-reading some of the posts, and if you still donít get it then I probably canít help you.


dingus


Apr 27, 2010, 8:02 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
then I probably canít help you.

PROGRESS!

DMT


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 8:18 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

Well, whatever works. I'd say like 3% or less of my pitches take every inch of the rope I've got. Don't really do that many double rope raps either.

But I'm going to plead ignorance too. I still have no idea what this purcell prusik is. Don't really care either. Never seen one, never read those n00b safety threads.

Slings. They're whats for dinner.


cjon3s


Apr 27, 2010, 8:35 PM
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Does it honestly matter? Your rope argument is ridiculous. As previously mentioned, how many pitches do you honestly lead that are the entire length of your rope?

And btw, I thought the PAS was nylon..?


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 8:42 PM
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johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

That's part of it. It doesn't "allow" me to use twin ropes, it makes it easier, and provides a whole bunch of other collateral benefits.

My criteria for my typical system are : Multi-pitch. Double rope rappels. Usually block leading. Saving weight. I want a system that handles those elegantly, and that uses the least amount of gear, while providing a high degree of flexibility, in the broadest of circumstances, from optimum to adverse (e.g. awkward belay stations, hanging belays, nighttime, speed critical, self-rescue, etc.).

In my experience (and Iíve used all the techniques mentioned in this thread) Iíve settled on twins as my optimum solution to the above criteria, and by using my rig instead of the ropes I get the following benefits:

- Itís easier/faster than clove-hitching 2 ropes.
- Easier to adjust than adjusting 2 clove hitches.
- Easier to adjust under load than a clove hitch.
- Easier to get my weight off the rope at a hanging belay. (Try clove hitching when youíre pumped and hanging on the rope on the first piece of what will become your anchor. I can clip my rig to that piece and get my weight off the rope, or I can place the second piece of my anchor and clip to that).
- Easier to switch ends of the rope (without changing the personal anchor, which would be adding a potential point for error).
- If my second is injured while following and I used all my slings on pro, my rig can be used to escape the belay and initiate a self-rescue.
- Under certain conditions I can use it as an emergency anchor rig.
- I have the full length of my ropes available.
- Even if Iím not block leading, if I have to go into that mode (injured partner?) I can do so and gain all the above efficiencies.


Plus, Iím getting all your honeys too.


potreroed


Apr 27, 2010, 8:44 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

Well, whatever works. I'd say like 3% or less of my pitches take every inch of the rope I've got. Don't really do that many double rope raps either.

But I'm going to plead ignorance too. I still have no idea what this purcell prusik is. Don't really care either. Never seen one, never read those n00b safety threads.

Slings. They're whats for dinner.

Just google the purcell prusick--they're very cool, although in the long run I like the PAS better. Ooops, I forgot, you're a sling guy who thinks the under-crotch daisy is a good idea.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 8:48 PM
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potreroed wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

Well, whatever works. I'd say like 3% or less of my pitches take every inch of the rope I've got. Don't really do that many double rope raps either.

But I'm going to plead ignorance too. I still have no idea what this purcell prusik is. Don't really care either. Never seen one, never read those n00b safety threads.

Slings. They're whats for dinner.

Just google the purcell prusick--they're very cool, although in the long run I like the PAS better. Ooops, I forgot, you're a sling guy who thinks the under-crotch daisy is a good idea.

heh. A slight correction. I'm a rope guy first, and I like the crotch sling to keep things sporty. I still gots two balls so I've got something to play with. What?


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 8:54 PM
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cjon3s wrote:
Does it honestly matter? Your rope argument is ridiculous. As previously mentioned, how many pitches do you honestly lead that are the entire length of your rope?

And btw, I thought the PAS was nylon..?

I don't use the PAS. Read the thread.

And no, it doesn't matter. But just to review how this debate started: I shared what I use as my tether, then a few numb nuts started questioning the fact that I carry an "extra" 3 ounces worth of 5mm cord on my harness. Hahahaha! So I just went ahead an pwned they asses.

And then I took their honeys.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 8:58 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

All in my shorts, of course. All in my shorts.


caughtinside


Apr 27, 2010, 9:01 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

All in my shorts, of course. All in my shorts.

Watch out for the drug sniffing dogs.


cjon3s


Apr 27, 2010, 9:01 PM
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I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 9:03 PM
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cjon3s wrote:
I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.

I like slings too, and I use them when I'm cragging and such.


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 9:05 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces.

What?

All in my shorts, of course. All in my shorts.

Watch out for the drug sniffing dogs.

LaughLaughLaugh


phile


Apr 27, 2010, 9:18 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
cjon3s wrote:
I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.

I like slings too, and I use them when I'm cragging and such.

yes, but what about the honeys? what happened to the honeys?


hugepedro


Apr 27, 2010, 9:23 PM
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phile wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cjon3s wrote:
I read it. The question about the PAS being made on nylon was directed towards caughtinside.

To each their own. Obviously you guys use different methods and both systems are working well for you. Personally, I like slings. I wouldn't call myself a weight nazi, it's just quick and simple.

I like slings too, and I use them when I'm cragging and such.

yes, but what about the honeys? what happened to the honeys?

Hahaha, oh I still got em. Thanks for correcting my error in failing to point that out though.


blueeyedclimber


Apr 28, 2010, 6:54 AM
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hugepedro wrote:
Well it was a joke. But I can still argue the point, because I'm all logicy, and stuff.

If you make a joke, then please use one of these in the future TongueSmileWinkCoolLaugh

In reply to:
The argument was made that I am carrying an extra 3 ounces of weight by not using the rope to tie in to the anchor. In other words, carrying stuff that has only a single, specialized purpose.

I'm not making that argument. You have your way, I have mine (although mine's better Tongue).

In reply to:
Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).
This is where I am not getting you. YOU are carrying that extra rope TOO. I am using it. YOU are not. You are carrying the PAS IN ADDITION to the rope. What happens if your only anchor is a tree 15-20 feet from the ledge and you need to be at the edge to see your second. How's your PAS then? Cool

In reply to:
Me? I can use every inch of my 200 foot twins on the pitch, and I have done that once in a while (even had to use some of the ropeís stretch a few times). If you use the rope to tie in then you are constrained by your system from ever ever using the full length of the rope on the climb itself. Sooooo, if you are a weight nazi, and you are only ever going to climb 180 foot pitches, you might as well chop off that 4-8 feet and go with a system that is lighter (like mine).

Tell you what. I will stop at the big comfy ledge at 180 feet and use the rope. You keep going up the next pitch and set up a hanging belay and use your PAS. Tongue I am not a weight nazi. I take what I think I might need. Sometimes that's more, sometimes less.


In reply to:
Does any of this really matter? Fuck no.
BINGO.

In reply to:
I was merely pointing out the utter ridiculousness of someone trying to mock my weight naziness over 3 ounces, when ounce for ounce the actual usable length/weight ratio of their system is inferior to mine.
Right. It is ridiculous. But don't go saying yours is lighter. You are still carrying the rope you are not using.

In reply to:
Donít go telling me Iím carrying extra weight, when my twin rope system with my super sweet rig offers me the best benefit/weight ratio for the situations under which I frequently climb.

I am not arguing this, i have no idea where you climb. It's a matter of personal taste.

In reply to:
And that ainít makin shit up.


Ok. Do you believe in the existence of phantom ropes? Cool

In reply to:
Them are facts, Jack.

Name's Josh.



In reply to:
This discussion makes me wonder how often any of you guys use twins, on multipitch, and block leading, if ever.

This is primarily what I do. Although I prefer to swap leads. It depends on the difficulty of each pitch. I primarily climb with someone who is at a different level.

So, in summary, THAT rope that you are not using.......uh, yeah.......it's still attached to you, dude.

Peace out.

Josh


justroberto


Apr 28, 2010, 7:25 AM
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mojomonkey wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
The double belay loops are not for safety, they are for convince on aid climbs and big walls. I have two PASís for a couple of reasons. The first reason, I need two when aid climbing. Having two is part of basic aid climbing technique (at least it is how I do it). You need one attached to each aider incase you fall, that way you donít loose your aiders. Also itís not a good idea to be hanging 2,000 feet off the ground on a big wall suspended by a single PAS with a single carabiner. If that one bolt pulls youíre done for. If your leader takes a big fall youíre going to get pulled up to the limit of the reach of your daisy (i.e. the daisy will be stopping you from being pulled any higher). Itís possible for your biner to fail if this happens as the biner can get wedged in the hanger and the hanger can rip through the gate. Itís a bit hard to visualize but trust me itís possible.

We'll trust you about as much as we ever do when you talk about aspects of climbing you know nothing about.

Jay

Good catch. That is a lot of misinformation in one paragraph.

I figure he is at least a big wall pro. Read this post, he says "next big wall". Not first.
Well, he did bag that one Via Ferrata...Laugh


wallwombat


Apr 28, 2010, 8:08 AM
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That was 45 minutes of my life that I will NEVER get back.

Unsure


bill413


Apr 28, 2010, 8:27 AM
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mojomonkey wrote:
jmeizis wrote:
[...] when you trip like a clod the rope will absorb the impact and possibly keep you from ripping your anchor out of the wall.

Possibly? How bad was your anchor? And if it is that bad, why are you fiddling with your adjustment to take some photos during the crux?

Look for human funkness device.


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 8:32 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
a bunch of well-reasoned argument with hugepedro

Don't bother. He realized a couple pages ago that what he's doing is indefensible from a weight perspective, but he just likes doing it.

I made my point, he got it. Then he made a funny, and I got it.

So it's all good!

GO


blueeyedclimber


Apr 28, 2010, 8:35 AM
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cracklover wrote:


I made my point, he got it. Then he made a funny, and I got it.

That's debatable Tongue


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 8:38 AM
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Oh, btw, I once used a purcell prussic. I was out hunting for booty, and discovered once I'd arrived at the crag that I'd remembered my slings and cordelette and stuff, but forgotten my rope. D'oh! So I wound up aiding up bolts, and making a purcell prusic with my cordelette as a load limiter, on the tiny chance that a bolt pulled - dropping me onto the previous bolt.

Purcell prussics are definitely pretty cool for dumbasses like me who forget their rope.

Oh wait, that's right, I was just saving weight by leaving behind an entire 60 meters (200 feet? Dingus, please do the conversion for me) of rope!

Beat that HugePedro!

GWink


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 8:40 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
cracklover wrote:


I made my point, he got it. Then he made a funny, and I got it.

That's debatable Tongue

Indeed - you are still debating it! Trust me, it was at least funny to me.

GO


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 10:58 AM
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
If you make a joke, then please use one of these in the future TongueSmileWinkCoolLaugh

No. I said ďhahaĒ after it, and thatís more than youíll normally get from me. See, I'm not here for your amusement, I'm here for mine. Once you realize that the only thing that really matters here is MY AMUSEMENT, then youíll better understand my posts. I donít know most of you, nor give a shit about you. Now make me laugh, betch! (Haha)


blueeyedclimber wrote:
I'm not making that argument. You have your way, I have mine (although mine's better Tongue).

Well others were, and thatís what I was responding to. Next time donít jump into the middle of the anal fisting circle if you really donít want to participate.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
This is where I am not getting you. YOU are carrying that extra rope TOO. I am using it. YOU are not. You are carrying the PAS IN ADDITION to the rope. What happens if your only anchor is a tree 15-20 feet from the ledge and you need to be at the edge to see your second. How's your PAS then? Cool

I know you're not getting me. It's ok. Don't fret. Many people can live a decent life even if they are never the smartest guy in the room, I'm sure you can too.

No, I am using that rope. And that length of rope Iím carrying can serve multiple purposes for me, whereas for you it CAN ONLY SERVE A SINGLE PURPOSE. Get it? Those numb nuts were bagging on me for carrying 3 ounces of gear that serves a single purpose, when they are carrying something even heavier that serves a single purpose.

Just because the fact that that thing happens to be part of the rope, and your minds are too feeble to conceptualize that part of the rope as serving a single purpose, doesnít mean it is not. Failure to grasp something on your part does not mean it is wrong. You might as well get used to it because Iím way smarter than you guys, and Iím taking all your honeys.

And I already answered that question about when the extension needs to be longer than my super sweet rig.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
Tell you what. I will stop at the big comfy ledge at 180 feet and use the rope. You keep going up the next pitch and set up a hanging belay and use your PAS. I am not a weight nazi. I take what I think I might need. Sometimes that's more, sometimes less.

Super! But when you climb things that arenít in a guide book you donít always know what youíre going to end up with or when you might actually need the last 10 feet of the rope. If you can wrap your brain around this concept . . .

ďI want a system that handles those elegantly, and that uses the least amount of gear, while providing a high degree of flexibility, in the broadest of circumstances, from optimum to adverse (e.g. awkward belay stations, hanging belays, nighttime, speed critical, self-rescue, etc.)."

. . . then you might begin to understand this. Your system is great under many circumstances. I used it myself for a long time. But Iíve found that the system I use now is also great in those same circumstance, plus itís great in additional ones (see my post above where I enumerate all the bennies).


blueeyedclimber wrote:
Right. It is ridiculous. But don't go saying yours is lighter. You are still carrying the rope you are not using.

Wrong. See above. Itís lighter on a weight per usable length of rope basis, and itís most likely lighter in absolute terms unless one is using a similar twin rope system. I win.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
Name's Josh.

Iíll call you Jack if I want to, betch.


blueeyedclimber wrote:
This is primarily what I do. Although I prefer to swap leads. It depends on the difficulty of each pitch. I primarily climb with someone who is at a different level.

Well then youíre well on your way over to the darkside, my young apprentice. There is hope for you to continue to learn the ways. Kudos.

I would prefer to swap leads too, but I'm such a badass that few partners are of equal competence.


Oh, and for you, just this one time, donít come to expect it: Laugh


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 11:04 AM
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wallwombat wrote:
That was 45 minutes of my life that I will NEVER get back.

Unsure

Shutup, n00b!!!!11


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 11:09 AM
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cracklover wrote:
Oh wait, that's right, I was just saving weight by leaving behind an entire 60 meters (200 feet? Dingus, please do the conversion for me) of rope!

Beat that HugePedro!

GWink

Excellent form, my man. Excellent. You have my esteem. I'll save a few honeys for you.


dingus


Apr 28, 2010, 11:48 AM
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hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
Oh wait, that's right, I was just saving weight by leaving behind an entire 60 meters (200 feet? Dingus, please do the conversion for me) of rope!

Beat that HugePedro!

GWink

Excellent form, my man. Excellent. You have my esteem. I'll save a few honeys for you.

SIXTY!

DMT


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 11:52 AM
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dingus wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
Oh wait, that's right, I was just saving weight by leaving behind an entire 60 meters (200 feet? Dingus, please do the conversion for me) of rope!

Beat that HugePedro!

GWink

Excellent form, my man. Excellent. You have my esteem. I'll save a few honeys for you.

SIXTY!

DMT

Sixty honeys? No problem. That is a mere few out of the numbers of honeys I'm gettin.


dingus


Apr 28, 2010, 11:58 AM
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And all of em named Rosey!

What a coincidence.

DMT


edge


Apr 28, 2010, 12:05 PM
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dingus wrote:
And all of em named Rosey!

What a coincidence.

DMT

Ha!

Last name?



hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 12:17 PM
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She prefers to be called Tyfanni.


Partner cracklover


Apr 28, 2010, 1:05 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
dingus wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
cracklover wrote:
Oh wait, that's right, I was just saving weight by leaving behind an entire 60 meters (200 feet? Dingus, please do the conversion for me) of rope!

Beat that HugePedro!

GWink

Excellent form, my man. Excellent. You have my esteem. I'll save a few honeys for you.

SIXTY!

DMT

Sixty honeys? No problem. That is a mere few out of the numbers of honeys I'm gettin.

Sixty honeys? Hmm... I thought he was answering my conversion conundrum - sixty feet. Although sixty feet = sixty meters doesn't make all that much sense either. Oh well.

Oh, and back on topic: "safety hitch" bwahahahaha! What a perfectly rc.com name for clipping in with a daisy.

GLaugh


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 1:17 PM
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cracklover wrote:
Sixty honeys? Hmm... I thought he was answering my conversion conundrum

He prolly was, but, I see no reason not to bring up all my honeys anyway. Just in case you guys forgot.


wallwombat


Apr 28, 2010, 2:18 PM
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hugepedro wrote:
wallwombat wrote:
That was 45 minutes of my life that I will NEVER get back.

Unsure

Shutup, n00b!!!!11

Is this where I'm supposed to go,

noob? YOU CALLED ME A NOOB?

My scrotum has been climbing longer than you......blah, blah, blah....... I'm so experienced........blah, blah, blah....I was climbing blah, blah, blah before you were blah, blah....I used to own a pair of Scarpa Superatz....blah blah blah......I tie in at belays with my wee wee....blah, blah, blah....



....Well, I can't be bothered. Unimpressed


(This post was edited by wallwombat on Apr 28, 2010, 2:20 PM)


hugepedro


Apr 28, 2010, 2:52 PM
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I might borrow that scrotum line from time to time. Hope you don't mind.


Gmburns2000


Apr 29, 2010, 4:40 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.


Gmburns2000


Apr 29, 2010, 4:47 AM
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hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Well we arenít climbing the same pitches. Iím climbing longer ones than you because of the constraints of your system. Iím pwning you and gettin all the honeys.

Again, someone was mocking my degree of ďweight nazinessĒ because I carry an ďextraĒ 3 ounces. This was a hypothetical comparison to demonstrate that my system is actually lighter on a weight per useful length of rope basis (and probably lighter overall if they are doing routes that require full length rappels and arenít using twins or a skinnier rap cord).

Try re-reading some of the posts, and if you still donít get it then I probably canít help you.

Oh, I read them just fine thanks. [rolls eyes]


johnwesely


Apr 29, 2010, 4:52 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Safety Sling, Girth-hitch to tie ins or belay loop? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

Pedro thinks it is easier with his purcells.


(This post was edited by johnwesely on Apr 29, 2010, 4:52 AM)


Gmburns2000


Apr 29, 2010, 5:25 AM
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johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

Pedro thinks it is easier with his purcells.

actually, I think he's saying he jugs as the second.


johnwesely


Apr 29, 2010, 5:43 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

Pedro thinks it is easier with his purcells.

actually, I think he's saying he jugs as the second.

Whatever helps him get the honeys.


hugepedro


Apr 29, 2010, 8:44 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

I've come to the considered opinion that you are a dumbass.


hugepedro


Apr 29, 2010, 8:50 AM
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johnwesely wrote:
Whatever helps him get the honeys.

Now you're learning.


Gmburns2000


Apr 29, 2010, 8:52 AM
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hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

I've come to the considered opinion that you are a dumbass.

that's all right, you were a little slow in making the assumption mutual.


hugepedro


Apr 29, 2010, 9:01 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

I've come to the considered opinion that you are a dumbass.

that's all right, you were a little slow in making the assumption mutual.

Dude, how do you even have time to post? Aren't you getting behind on your rope flaking?


Gmburns2000


Apr 29, 2010, 9:13 AM
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hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

I've come to the considered opinion that you are a dumbass.

that's all right, you were a little slow in making the assumption mutual.

Dude, how do you even have time to post? Aren't you getting behind on your rope flaking?

I was, but then I realized I don't need it.


hugepedro


Apr 29, 2010, 9:34 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
hugepedro wrote:

Well, if you have no means to tie into the anchor, other than the rope, then you are also carrying something that serves only a single, specialized purpose - that 4-8 feet of rope (which is way heavier than my rig).

huh? if you and I climb the same pitch, and I tie in with the rope, and you tie in with a PAS, then how is it that I'm carrying more? Cause, like, this isn't making any sense.

Or, T0

Because Pedro is so bad at making sense, I will try to explain. His point, at least I think, is that his system allows him to use twin ropes instead of bringing up a second rope for rappels, thus saving weight. However, I may be completely mistaken.

I climb with doubles.

I've come to the considered opinion that you are a dumbass.

that's all right, you were a little slow in making the assumption mutual.

Dude, how do you even have time to post? Aren't you getting behind on your rope flaking?

I was, but then I realized I don't need it.

Hahaha! Sweet! It's always a good day when you realize you will have more time to post on rc.com. From here on it's post count+++++ for you!


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