I guess I'm confused why I can clean on rappel with both hands but other people can't. Granted it's all easier on rappel because someone else is doing the work, but it only seems slightly less convenient and no less safe. By the way I'll be back east for a few weeks in Sep/Oct. I'll be hitting Rumney for a day or two so hopefully you'll be there to laugh at me when I clean everything on rappel.

This is something I wanted to know after reading about people lowering through the anchors in another thread. The thought in that thread was that it was generally safer to lower and that it was the purpose of the bolted anchors being there in the first place.

I disagreed for two reasons.

How do you figure?

Try it.

Edit: No don't try it. Just explain how you would clean a traversing route on rappel.

Jay

Try it.

Edit: No don't try it. Just explain how you would clean a traversing route on rappel.

Jay

You swing? It's really not all that hard cleaning an overhang if you keep your momentum up. If it's really that crazy of a roof or traverse then my partner or I will clean it on the way up, but I'm pretty sure anything I can clean getting lowered off I can clean on rappel.

Fixt to remove portions of the response not pertinent to the question.

Jay

Well you can swing forward to back OR side to side, you know, like a pendulum traverse. And if it's a pitch of mostly horizontal climbing you're not going to be able to clean that while being lowered either.

I guess we're back to "try it," then. In fact, since you're a local, I'll be more specific. Go to Echo Cliffs, and try it on one the 12s in the Kamikaze Cave.

Jay

Don't those all have fixed draws on them?

Seriously though, there's some routes out there that can only be cleaned my following them...

In the west where ropes get covered in sand it doesn't take that long, sometimes less than a year...

Whether I lower, rappel or clean the route by following it depends entirely on the route and the type of anchor.

Edit: and sometimes the condition that anchor is in.

There's wear and gear needs replacing, no doubt, one sees this ast Rumney for a example -- but it does get replaced. I think the most important thing is not lowering through bolts. Carabiners/quicklinks/chains are much more easily replaced as part of regular sport route maintenance.

You swing? It's really not all that hard cleaning an overhang if you keep your momentum up. If it's really that crazy of a roof or traverse then my partner or I will clean it on the way up, but I'm pretty sure anything I can clean getting lowered off I can clean on rappel.

I rap any time I have to thread the anchors because it's just as fast as getting tied back in. Sometimes I'll even top belay my partner and we'll both rap if it's an area like IC where the rope is scarring the rock (or if there's just a lot of drag). I do occasionally get lowered off open shuts just out of pure laziness and I always lower off those fatass mussy hooks.

One question I have though - are rap rings really less resistant to wear than quicklinks? There were a couple comments in this thread about them rotating so they don't get grooved as easily. I've always thought it was a really bad idea to lower or toprope through rap rings because they're hollow on the inside. While you can visibly see the wear on a quicklink or carabiner, the aluminum on a rap ring is so thin by the time it forms any sort of "groove" its strength is dramatically reduced. Am I wrong about this?

Statistically, way more accidents occur on rap than from lowering.

2. I almost always lower. There is no point in swinging around all nimbly bimbly from a fixed anchor on rap to clean some steep route, when I can easily clean it being lowered. I'm not sure why you think that lowering will cause so much damage to quicklinks, shuts, etc. As long as you aren't top roping through the anchor, the wear is minimal.

2b. What is the local ethic/what does the equipper want? I've only been to a dozen or so different areas in the US and Canada, but have never been to a place where rapping is desired off the anchor. I only know two people who equip routes, but neither person cares about lowering through the anchor, and they do it as well.

I equip routes, and most certainly would appreciate it it you either pitch in for top anchors, or rap. Local area ethics are to rap. All our areas in the closest 250 miles are like this also. Non rappers cause lots of wear, just because you don't do anything about it or look for it doesn't make it nonexistent.

To the dingus(no offence Dingus) who mentioned that he has never seen a collection at the top of a route he has done. We keep em with us, keeps cheepskates and thieves from helping themselves, ask around, everywhere I have been has locals who will gladly take contributions for anchor repair in their area, including ours. Ignorance is never an excuse.


Bob

I do monetarily contribute to the routes being put up in the area - this summer I'll begin equipping my own routes. I've only been at it for 2 years now, so still getting around to it.

I noticed you're in Kalispell - I've climbed at Kila crag and some area by a lake I don't recall. I met someone there, and after chatting with him he said he had equipped about 400 routes in the area - and I am pretty sure I saw him lowering off a climb....

You mean it's situational? IT can't be decided by a poll? That's Crazy Talk!!!