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clintcummins
Jun 11, 2003, 7:51 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Located at Index, WA is a dead vertical/overhanging finger wrenching crack call City Park: this crack has only seen two lead ascents. Skinner rated it 13.C, but after 17 years and only two ascents...I'm thinking it might be a little harder. :shock: Has anyone heard of a third ascent? Some would argue only one ascent as the 2nd had camhooks for feet.
I agree that Hugh Herr's ascent belongs in a separate category
because of his special footwear. But it was still an interesting
accomplishment, and not easy.
Just recently I found out about a third/second free ascent of City Park,
by Chris Schlotfeldt, in the fall of 1999. He led it with preplaced gear.
He also toproped it 5 times. Although it was not a redpoint like
Skinner's ascent (except Skinner had one piece of gear that he
lowered from and did not clean), even on preplaced gear or toprope
it qualifies as free by some definition. And in the original post in
this thread, Kauk's route Magic Line was listed as a free trad route;
it was led with preplaced gear.
There are a few more details on Chris Schlotfeldt's ascent(s),
a topo and photo at:
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/index/index.htm
near the bottom of the page, under Updates.
Darryl Cramer told me he has heard of at least one other
claim of a free ascent of City Park as well.
Clint Cummins
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rockprodigy
Jun 11, 2003, 5:10 PM
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Clint, thanks for the info. That's a cool topo for City Park. Do you know what the correct rating is on the RNW Face of Half Dome? When Dean Potter did his linkup of HD and El Cap, Climbing magazine quoted him as saying he and Alex [Huber] both think the 2nd to last pitch is "solid 12d". Yet, in the rest of the article they say the route is 12a which is the only other rating I've seen for it.t.
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xxxxgold
Jun 21, 2003, 11:47 PM
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I saw someone asking about routes in Australia that are entirely trad. Malcolm Matheson is the undeniable king of Australian trad climbing. The Great Shark Hunt weighs in at about 13d on the YDS, 30/31 on the Ewbank scale. Another route worthy of mention is Welcome to Barbados, this route is only around 13b/c but it is a 50 metre long pitch, consisting entirely of roof! Just the weight of the rack is enough to make me sore... For anyone wanting a pic of this climb go to http://www.onsight.com.au/gallery/locations/index.htm and choose 'The Grampians' in Victoria, it is on the second thumbnail sheet in the middle of the bottom row. Plenty of other inspirational photos too for anyone interested in Australian climbing.
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petsfed
Jun 22, 2003, 2:32 AM
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A lot of people climb at Vedauwoo. On the weekends. And they're all from Fort Collins. I have to fight them off with a stick.
For what its worth, Jay Anderson rated Lucille 13a after nearly a decade of battling the beast for the first ascent. Then Craig Luebben did the second ascent onsight, said it was 12d, and that rating has remained. A grand total of 6 unique redpoints have occurred. Luebben apparently did the 4th free ascent as well. The reason it has not seen more is because off-widthing is hard enough with out feldspar scalpels ripping at your flesh through a crack that makes me cry just to look at.
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rockprodigy
Jul 17, 2003, 4:18 PM
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I just got back from a trip to the N. Cascades in Washington. We did Liberty Bell, and I would like to add the second pitch, "Lithuanian Roof" to the list of hard trad lines. It's rated "only" 13a or b, but it looks pretty hard...mostly fixed gear, however.
While we were there, we stopped at Index...climbed Gorillas and got to look at City Park on rappel. First of all, it's not overhanging...possibly vertical but that is it. I would say that it definitely is free-able, and I don't doubt that Skinner could have done it way back then. I won't speculate on the grade (ha, ha), but it is "all there"...decent finger locks the entire way with feet that would be considered very good by Indian Creek standards.
As to the question of why it hasn't been repeated. We were there in July...it was hot as balls and the humidity felt like Alabama. I guess there are very few "redpoint-able" days in any give year there...probably less than 10 days when you would seriously be able to give it an attempt...some time in the fall or spring (maybe it's wet in the spring?) So assuming it's in that time period, you have to avoid the rain which is almost every day during that time.
It's also not like an I-Creek climb that you can walk up to with no beta and send...it's very beta-dependent...varying pin scar fingerlocks. So, not only do you have to have a good day for the redpoint, but you have to have the thing wired before you try it.
Finally, Washington ain't exactly the center of the universe for hard free climbing. Good rock climbers don't live there, and they don't travel there either...all the good climbers are mountaineers, and mountaineers don't usually climb 5.13 cracks. If this were in California, Utah, or Colorado, it would have seen many ascents by now.
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melekzek
Jul 17, 2003, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: Also, wasn't there a 13c/d put up on the Eiger a few years ago by a husband/wife team???
Is it Robert/Daniela Jasper? Their route Symphonie dīlibertee on Eiger northwall is 8a 10- (5.13b/c) but I have no idea whether it is a bolted climb or trad.
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slabbyd
Jul 17, 2003, 5:54 PM
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Climbing a 5.9 then speculating about how easy the neighboring 5.13 is makes you sound like a fool IMHO.
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offwidthclimber
Jul 17, 2003, 6:08 PM
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In reply to: Finally, Washington ain't exactly the center of the universe for hard free climbing. Good rock climbers don't live there, and they don't travel there either...all the good climbers are mountaineers, and mountaineers don't usually climb 5.13 cracks. If this were in California, Utah, or Colorado, it would have seen many ascents by now.
way to go, UTARD. that statement shows you're an ignorant jackass who obviously knows nothing about climbing in WA.
and rappelling past a route doesn't mean you have any idea about its alleged difficulty. it's all baseless speculation. what a joke. did you hop on and give it a try?
heh. tool.
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snafflehound
Jul 17, 2003, 7:17 PM
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Actually, OWC, I believe the term is "troll"
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stuck
Jul 17, 2003, 8:04 PM
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I can assure you, there are plenty of excellent rock climbers in washington. There is me for example, and i can name a handfull of sickeningly strong boulderers. There is also a fair share of awesome roped climbers.
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rockprodigy
Jul 17, 2003, 8:23 PM
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In reply to: I can assure you, there are plenty of excellent rock climbers in washington. There is me for example, and i can name a handfull of sickeningly strong boulderers. There is also a fair share of awesome roped climbers.
I hereby retract my statement that there are no good free climbers in Washington...that was stupid to say, as if I would know.
What I do know is that City Park hasn't been repeated by a complete person...why is that?
Is Todd Skinner really that good? I think he's a great climber, but come on...all his other routes have been repeated.
It must have something to do with its location, right?
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stuck
Jul 17, 2003, 8:34 PM
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Yes, location does have a lot to do with it. If city park were in California it would most likely be greasy as plumbers ass crack. True Washington has fewer climbers than many (most?) states, but one shouldn't make the assumption that there is a dearth of quality rock and badass climbers.
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hasbeen
Jul 18, 2003, 12:07 AM
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That story on City Park, by Jeff Smoot, is outstanding. I recommend it to anyone that's interested in climbing history. He's right on about Todd, sorta, but I think he didn't capture the positive side to him enough. Sure, he's been a bit ethically shakey and driven by ego, but he's a gem of a guy. Just tops. One of the most positive and infectious guys you can be around. If you can hang out with Todd and not be psyched about life, then ya might as well give it up.
Ultra technical cracks like this are just fascinating to climb. Any more stories like this out there?
Are there any cracks as hard as Magic Line? Does anyone know if anyone's ever attempted that thing? Friend of mine belayed Kauk on it a bunch and said it was absurd. I've been on Coffin' Nail (I think tha's the name), which is one of those ultra thin technical nightmares that make you wonder how much more technical something can get (solve a section one time, then forget how it went and can't even move the next). Well Kauk used to do laps on it training for ML. Hmmm.
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kalcario
Jul 18, 2003, 12:26 AM
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*I've been on Coffin' Nail (I think tha's the name), which is one of those ultra thin technical nightmares that make you wonder how much more technical something can get (solve a section one time, then forget how it went and can't even move the next). Well Kauk used to do laps on it training for ML. Hmmm.*
You mean Stigma?
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hasbeen
Jul 18, 2003, 2:05 AM
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No, not Stigma. This is left of that. I think a bit left of Crack A Go-Go. Old aid line that's now bolted. REALLY thin, not like Stigma, which is sorta thin (but steeper).
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akd
Jul 18, 2003, 4:01 AM
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Junkie,
I don't know if people had already mentioned it, but there's a very hard trad line in Sweden, rated 8b+ or 5.14a.
The name is Puss Pa Morfar (Kiss on Grandpa, or something like that), and before Magnus Lindstedt sent it, Neil Gresham deemed the line impossible (after rapelling it down).
Here's a link to the video, which lacks of quality, but is a must see just for watching the magnificent effort of the climber.
Note: there's NO pre-place gear...
http://www.highsport.se/filmer/
2:40 secs, and almost 4 megas
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alwaysforward
Jul 18, 2003, 5:27 AM
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Did Dean Potter rate his one pitch free ascent of Tombstone?
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alpnclmbr1
Jul 18, 2003, 5:41 AM
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Puss Pa Morfar
That was a sweet video, thanks.
re: the comments on fiddler, if you look at it, it sure looks like it was pinned out to fit someone's hand size. Can't say by who.
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bolthappy
Jul 18, 2003, 1:34 PM
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WARNING:
It started when a link to this tread was posted on a North West Spray board,www.cascadeclimbers.com. Incited by the slam of Washington climbers by ROCKPRODIGY pages of spray soon rolled of the keyboards. Than a few of the hardcore sprayers sent each other PM's, soon there was talk of a car pool to hunt down this wanker and kick his ars, it then grew to such great proportions that a tour buss has been rented and a road trip is in the works. The local spraymasters, one from Canada, one from Washington and one from Oregon, with posts in the thousands ,these are no cubical warriors they spray 24/7's and are proposing a hack, First they are going to hack into his computer steal some pictures of ROCKPOO and post them on porn sites , fill his email with disgusting spam, and last burn his hard drive with a mega virus that can jump through the screen and eat your face if you try to delete it.
:shock: :twisted:
BOHICA
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rockprodigy
Jul 18, 2003, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: WARNING: It started when a link to this tread was posted on a North West Spray board,www.cascadeclimbers.com.
Well you still haven't given any explanation better than mine for why City Park hasn't been repeated.
I checked out my thread on cascadeclimbers.com, and they're offering money to Canadians to come down to Index to try it.
YOU TELL ME!
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bolthappy
Jul 18, 2003, 7:07 PM
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Just a joke ,lighten up dude .It's all about fun!!!
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brianinslc
Jul 18, 2003, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: ...First they are going to hack into his computer steal some pictures of ROCKPOO and post them on porn sites....
Hate to drop dime, but, you need look no further for a picture of "rockpoo" than page 73 of your current Rock and Ice magazine (September? Already? What up with that...).
You can tell he's a poser. Just look at him, starin' at the dirt, hands in his pockets...lookin' ever so slightly guilty about "something"...
(man this is a funny thread...!)
Sorry, Mike...(har har)...
Brian in SLC
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rockprodigy
Jul 18, 2003, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: Just a joke ,lighten up dude .It's all about fun!!!
I'm light...don't worry....now if everyone else would just do the same.
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bolthappy
Jul 18, 2003, 10:47 PM
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Is that him, no wonder he is so light, it's those ears, their like dumbo's , can he FLY ?
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hangdogwatchdog
Jul 19, 2003, 7:17 AM
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In reply to: That story on City Park, by Jeff Smoot, is outstanding. I recommend it to anyone that's interested in climbing history. He's right on about Todd, sorta, but I think he didn't capture the positive side to him enough. Sure, he's been a bit ethically shakey and driven by ego, but he's a gem of a guy. Just tops. One of the most positive and infectious guys you can be around. If you can hang out with Todd and not be psyched about life, then ya might as well give it up. Ultra technical cracks like this are just fascinating to climb. Any more stories like this out there?
I am sorry to inform you that your leg has been pulled. That's right, you heard right. That story on Smoot's site is is an imaginative interpretation of Skinner's climb. Amazing, since Smoot was there to see it. But here's the way it really went down. Todd had several pieces of pro placed leading to about the 90-foot level on this 120-foot pitch. His rope stretched from the ground where he stood, through his highest piece and back down to his belayer. It was nearly dark, and Todd climbed up (top-roped from his highest piece) to the crux, climbed right through and after about 10 or 15 feet he moved right onto Godzilla. He questioned Jeff about the difficulty of the Godzilla mantle move ("10c" was the reply), then finished by climbing Godzilla.
Later, a paragraph in Rock & Ice informed us that he had climbed around some grease that had been placed in the City Park crack, but that since the last 30 feet of City Park was only 5.12, he had accomplished the "first free ascent" of City Park.
What is important to note is that Todd placed no gear on this ascent. In fact, he didn't even clip his rope into a single piece. He just top-roped to his highest piece and then climbed through, finishing off route. If such tactics are acceptable by today's standards, they certainly weren't back then when Todd claimed the first free ascent.
And, so we see, you can't believe everything you read or hear. If you're impressed that a nonlocal climber came in and "skooped" City Park from under the noses of the locals in Washington, you might as well know how unconventional and artificial Todd's ascent really was. He basically top-roped this pitch (and NOT EVEN ALL OF IT). Washington climbers were top-roping this pitch in the 1970's.
Just thought you should know.
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