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newontherock
Jan 30, 2002, 12:56 AM
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I would have to choose climbing. I am an atheist and so this is an easy decision. I do though; respect that people do believe and would chose God over climbing. They have that choice and I have mine. I have no problem with that unless they start to come at me, trying to get me to believe. My faith is in myself, family, and friends (Not always in that order).
*Anna*
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climb512
Jan 30, 2002, 1:26 AM
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Dynamic wrote,"we all have morality or a belief of ethical conduct (christian or not). if there is no judgement then morality has no function. so why do you hold on to it? you would be more well off if you abandoned it."
There is no judgement, there is no afterlife, morality is there because we are human. Capable of intelligent thought and decision making. Having or being moral has nothing to do with a "judgement day". It is called evolution. Developing into a being capable of thought, and independent choices, not instinct.. I act moraly because of the laws we make to live by not by laws made by a mythical being sent down on stone tablets for our entry into heaven.
If there is an afterlife, we are all admidted, that is if the donation was large enough.
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climber1
Jan 30, 2002, 8:51 PM
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since I am agnostic, I can't give that up. I would never give up climbing unless forced to.
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woodse
Jan 30, 2002, 9:06 PM
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Climbing is my religion and the rock is my church. So there.
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spank_spank
Jan 30, 2002, 9:10 PM
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If there is a God out there, he shouldn't have to make you choose. If He did, then why would I have faith in Him.
There are reasons why I would stop climbing, but it would be for religious reason.
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amethyst
Jan 31, 2002, 4:06 AM
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What is going on here? Why all the religious debates? If you are going to argue about something and fling insults around, why not choose a topic that has a point? And can be useful.
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amethyst
Jan 31, 2002, 4:08 AM
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Okay, because being mean is more fun.
Asked and answered.
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spank_spank
Jan 31, 2002, 1:28 PM
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The question should be, why would we have to choose?
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rigel
Jan 31, 2002, 2:40 PM
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spank_spank,
only in an ego-centric world.
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amethyst
Jan 31, 2002, 2:42 PM
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Thank you Spank-Spank. (Now that just sounds odd!!!) Finally someone who is making sense.
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jules
Jan 31, 2002, 7:47 PM
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Here's a good one:
What would you do without hypothetical questions?
hehe
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uhighfreak
Jan 31, 2002, 9:38 PM
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God comes first. I find, like many others, that climbing is a spiritual experience but if I had to choose between my faith and climbing, faith would be first and climbing would have to be left behind sadly.
The evil paradox of the question is leaving me happy but sad at the same time because of the decision I would have to make
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spank_spank
Jan 31, 2002, 9:46 PM
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Juliana - this is just a stupid hypothetical question. Well maybe not stupid but different paramaters have to be set. Who is making you choose. Your spouse? My spouse would never make me choose. God? Why would I love a God who would make me choose between two things I supposedely(sp?) love.
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jules
Jan 31, 2002, 10:10 PM
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It's a totally hypothetical question. If you were put into the position, what would you do? A better way to phrase it would be "Which is more important to you, climbing or your religion?" but it isn't, so we're gonna have to deal.
Remember playing Truth or Dare, when someone asked you, "If you HAD to choose..." and gave two equally disgusting choices? Same thing. We're not putting the emphasis on the question here, but the answer.
In other words:
STOP OVER-ANALYZING EVERYTHING!
Anyways, I don't know where I came into play here. I was just giving a hypothetical question about hypothetical questions. But, whatever.
How about we stop discussing the question and get back to discussing the answer?
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jcs
Feb 1, 2002, 6:59 AM
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I said before that I would keep my religion- but I'm not religious. I just assumed that the question meant "current belief system". For rrrAdam and all you other Hell-bound non-believers, would you rather give up climbing, or suddenly suffer a huge mental shift and become Bible-thumpers? Hehehehe...
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jcs
Feb 1, 2002, 6:59 AM
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I said before that I would keep my religion- but I'm not religious. I just assumed that the question meant "current belief system". For rrrAdam and all you other Hell-bound non-believers, would you rather give up climbing, or suddenly suffer a huge mental shift and become Bible-thumpers? Hehehehe...
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kaptk
Feb 1, 2002, 8:34 AM
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Several years ago I learned about a thing called vertical alignment. If the order isn't right then things don't work so well.
God is first and family is second. Climbing could never be more important to me than either of these.
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spank_spank
Feb 1, 2002, 1:36 PM
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Juliana - I just read your post and thought I would respond to it. Plain and simple, I am an over-analyzer. Always have been, always will be. Someone asked me a hypothetical questions and my first question is "why?" For this question I asked "why would I have to choose". Thats all. But if I had a choose, I would climb.
Peace out!
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krillen
Feb 1, 2002, 2:36 PM
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I don't think it's a matter of over analysing hypothetical questions, I think it's more a basis in reality.
There is NO situation that would make you make taht decision, and it's one you CAN'T make conciously. Honestly, Faith in a higher power one way or another isn't something one chooses. Gravioty doesn't stop existing if I DECIDE not to believe in it.
I think a more pertinent question is: Are we that pretentious/self-absorbed that we have to contemplate this?
OR an even more perinent question might be: Where are my pants...?
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jules
Feb 1, 2002, 3:00 PM
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Oh, wow--
JCS: That was exactly what I was trying to say on the first page, that I would rather keep climbing than lose my lack of beliefs- thus making me have beliefs. Sorta wacky logic, but whatever.
Krillen: Another over-analyzer, I see... (don't mind me, it's all in good humor)
But really, you all are seriously looking into this way too deep. I know it could never happen. It's just a 100% hypothetical question (how many times must I say this...?). We don't want to know why you would never have to choose. We want to know, plain and simple, which would you choose.
Okay, for all you over-analyzers, analyze this-
A loose rock falls on your head while you are climbing on a Sunday. You are consciously thinking about GOD, RELIGION, and HOW YOU SHOULD BE AT CHURCH and about, of course, CLIMBING and CLIMBING TECHNIQUE. Somehow, these two areas are the only ones damaged because they were the most active at the time. You are in the ER, and they tell you they can either save the CLIMBING area of your brain by getting rid of the RELIGION area, or they can save the RELIGION area by getting rid of the CLIMBING area. We don't know how this works. It just does. Now that you know WHY you must lose one or the other, which would YOU lose (permanently, since the brain tissue will be gone, you will never remember)-
1) Rock climbing (how to, etc)
2) Religion, faith, spirituality, God, etc.
You will know that the other EXISTS because other parts of your brain tell you that, but will not be able to conjure any positively religous thoughts OR have any ability to climb whatsoever.
Does that answer your WHY and your HOW questions?
Now can you answer the original question?
(Wow, I almost had too much fun doing that. I love psuedo-arguments)
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spank_spank
Feb 1, 2002, 3:27 PM
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I would ask why can't you remove 50% of each area I love psuedo arguments to!
Another point is that you do not have to be in Church to be religious. Organized religion is for the weak-minded.
Really though, I would still choose climbing. I beleive deep down that being able to climb, spend time in nature, appreciating Mother Earth, is spiritual all by itself.
I also take the Bible literally, and there are too many inconsisties to make me beleive everthing in it. Its a teaching tool, and not a very good one at that.
I am somewhat a religious person, but in my own way. I follow the religion of Spankoism.
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krillen
Feb 1, 2002, 3:47 PM
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Juliannna:
Hey personal belief in a higherpower is something that isn't a cognitive choice. Climbing is. So either they remove the logic part of your brain and you can't climb, or the feeling part of your brain, you can climb, but you are a robot and can't feel anything so you can't enjoy it. IN your example.
You can't make that choice. You can't. People may try, but you can't force yourself to either side of the fence. There are things that fundamentally change your opinions, but you don't choose them. Try and tellyourself taht you personally believe in God, deep down you don't. It's the same thing for those people that DoO believe, they can say they don't believe until the cows coem home, but deep down they have a deeply personal connection to their diety.
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lawnboy
Feb 2, 2002, 3:14 AM
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i'd have to go with climbing i'm young and need to live my life!!
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vaness
Feb 3, 2002, 6:56 PM
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spank_spank said:
The question should be, why would we have to choose?
yeah!
thats the reason im not going to answer this question
we really wouldnt have to choose
[ This Message was edited by: vaness on 2002-02-03 10:56 ]
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upfreak
Feb 3, 2002, 7:56 PM
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U know... i think that they go together and not seperately... cos u need both to live life to the max.... both on and off the wall....
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