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rockjock04
Jan 27, 2002, 7:19 PM
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Assuming you had to choose one and cant have both, would you give up your religion/faith(assuming you have one) or would you give up climbing? Kind of makes you think doesn't it? Not for me. I'd keep my religion, although Climbing is almost as important.
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ratstar
Jan 27, 2002, 7:35 PM
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I would definatel choose my faith. Climbing would be right behind it. Everything else comes later.
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amethyst
Jan 27, 2002, 7:37 PM
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Okay you have disproved my theory that all climbers are pagans.
For me climbing is a way to make my faith stronger - you know, the whole God is the Creator thing. Being able to climb, especially in some of these amazing places, just reinforces my belief.
..so I'd choose my faith!
[ This Message was edited by: amethyst on 2002-01-27 11:39 ]
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jdcox_9
Jan 27, 2002, 9:54 PM
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I would most definately choose to keep my faith. First of all, I can never lose God. Also, climbing would not be my second choice. My family and friends would most definately come before climbing.
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blackaven
Jan 27, 2002, 10:06 PM
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HAND DOWN! Climbing Stays!
I'm an Athiest!
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paintinhaler
Jan 27, 2002, 10:11 PM
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climb is mine
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jules
Jan 27, 2002, 10:44 PM
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I share the athiest view on life...
So, I guess, to give up my faith would be to give myself up to what I see as mindless brainwashing, that does more harm than good.
From that standpoint, I would chose to keep my faith. I could not again be a part of organized religion; I disgraced my family because I wanted out so badly, and would do so again without a second thought.
I suppose that having no faith is, in a sense, having a faith. I have faith in myself as an individual and in us as a species, as animals, not in some fabled "higher-being" our anscestors created in their imaginations.
If not having a religion is considered having no faith, then to give it up would be to remain in the same state of mind. In this case, hell yeah, I'll keep on climbing.
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jmlangford
Jan 27, 2002, 11:20 PM
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Definitely my faith! If it weren't for God creating the gorgeous places that I climb in, there would be no climbing to begin with. Juliana, it takes more faith to believe we evolved from some one-celled amoeba by accident than it does to believe an Almighty Creator created us!
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sauron
Jan 27, 2002, 11:42 PM
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There's no question as to what I'd let go of.. As much as I can't let go of climbing, I definitely couldn't let go of my faith..
-d, of the fish people (tm)
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metoliusmunchkin
Jan 28, 2002, 12:11 AM
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It seems quite unreal to me, for one to simply give up a religion. One's faith is a very powerful thing, not to be meddled with. For those of us who are Christian, and did 'give up' their religion for climbing, they would still pray, would still believe and entrust in the word of God. Basically, I personally do not believe one can just 'drop' their faith (for anything in this world).
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metoliusmunchkin
Jan 28, 2002, 12:34 AM
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Quote:I share the athiest view on life...
So, I guess, to give up my faith would be to give myself up to what I see as mindless brainwashing, that does more harm than good.
Juliana: How could you even perceive that faith be a complete act of brainwashing. I at first, took an atheist's point of view, although now I beg to differ. At first, I did not have the faith in God, and this to me seems quite stupid of me. How was this Earth/Universe created? The logical (scientifical/atheist) answer to this question would be: The Big Bang. Yes of course I agree, but what caused the Big Bang? God? We as humanity will never know.
Life after death? An atheist's point of view (once my own) would be that, when you die, that is it, your 'life' from that point on, is a non-moving, blind, eternal darkness. To tell you the truth, this sucks! To have an eternal bliss (known as Heaven) rather than eternal darkness (atheists point of view) is a much better thought.
At the moment, I am not at all a religious person, although am beginning to seek it, for the fear of no life after death, the puzzlement of what (or in biblical terms: Who?) created this Earth/Universe, the wonder of what will happen to me throughout the 'after life' is eating away at my very being. At this point in my life, it seems that the only way out of this rather strange dilemma, is to turn to my faith, or turn to God.
Rethink your atheism.
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pianomahnn
Jan 28, 2002, 1:04 AM
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Like I didn't see THIS debate happening...
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maxx
Jan 28, 2002, 1:18 AM
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hahaha, I spent 47 minutes writing something for this topic, but then I deleted what I had wrote, I realized that it's not worth discussing. Everyone has different beliefs, let them, it doesn't really matter when it comes down to it.
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daggerx
Jan 28, 2002, 1:24 AM
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Im sorry to say but right now I think I would chose climbing.
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jules
Jan 28, 2002, 1:27 AM
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Metolius-
I did not mean to offend, or whatever, anyone. I was just sharing my views.
I admit that my view is not an uplifing one. However, I am not the kind of person that needs a twinkie dangled in front of my face to keep running. I run anyways. I live anyways. Living isn't an option, unless you take the "coward's way out"; living just is.
I also admit I cannot explain where the universe came from; if people who have dedicated their lives to this one purpose cannot, how could I ever believe that I do? But, think back in time. The ancient peoples did not have an explanantion for everything. Thus, Greek mythology and the likes. I strongly oppose the "if we can't explain it, let's make something up" view.
Think about this: Our "god" is as real (to the majority of us) as the Greek gods were to the Greek people. But we, as a civilization which has advanced beyond that, look upon these views as purely entertainment.
Believe me, I am not just making a rash, on-the-spot judgement of religion and the likes. I have thought it over. I have debated it with many. Hell, I had to go into the church and explain myself to the priest before my mom let me drop out of Sunday school. Do you think I enjoyed that? Do you think I liked telling a wonderful, caring man that I did not believe in what he had based his life on? I think not.
Maybe I just won't state my opinions from now on.
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fiend
Jan 28, 2002, 2:05 AM
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I know I've used this already in other posts but it's just so fitting:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
--Stephen F Roberts
I feel that everyone is entitled to their own belief system and no-one should attempt to convert another. There's nothing wrong with intelligent debate though
[ This Message was edited by: fiend on 2002-01-27 18:06 ]
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jmlangford
Jan 28, 2002, 2:19 AM
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Juliana,I may disagree wholeheartedly with your opinion, but I would fight to the death your right to state it. Along with the 2nd Amendment-which is the reason the others still exist-the 1st Amendment is the most precious. Don't stop giving your opinions.
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dynamic
Jan 28, 2002, 2:22 AM
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intelligent debate... let us debate intelligently then (juliana). don't stop stating your beliefs or your opinions. you have a mind, use it more as you already have.
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dynamic
Jan 28, 2002, 2:26 AM
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in order to debate, one must present their ideas in a way to convince another that they are right. an atheist has more faith than anyone.
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dynamic
Jan 28, 2002, 2:29 AM
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so if this is viewed as an attempt to convert, there is no debate.
also, tell me why you don't believe in any other gods (fiend).
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xterramo
Jan 28, 2002, 2:50 AM
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Their is NO WAY I could give up my religion! It is probably the thing I value most. Then family and close friends. Then of course climbing. I am just happy to see so many people choosing God over climbing and I just pray that those of you that don't will come to find Christ very soon.
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polarwid
Jan 28, 2002, 3:18 AM
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Well, faith is first but climbing is a close second...
I am in the USAF and spend every day fighting for YOUR right to be an athiest so it is good to see both sides...
I just hope you guys come around before you die...
Someone died for you...
Think about it...
DOUG
P.S. I can't WAIT till UNCLE STU gets in on this one...
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dynamic
Jan 28, 2002, 3:19 AM
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people who call themselves christians or religous do not always reflect their religion perfectly. i seem to hear time after time how atheists or half-religous people judge so severely the religion as how the people belonging to it behave. consider the inconsistency of any person, let alone religous people. now consider what they actually believe. notice hypocracy? so do i, but that doesn't mean the religion is fraud. what makes a religon fraud is its lack of truth.
now present fraudulent beliefs in chrisianity, such as the myth of jesus christ. some claim his life in the bible isn't even true. if you believe this, consider the writings of josephus, a non-christian of the era who recorded history from the time. funny how his works portray christ in accord with the bible and josephus wasn't even a christian.
how about judgement for our actions in this life? why is it that scientists have found in humans a mechanism in the human brain specifically functioning in the realm of religon. also consider that one of the primary differences between animals and humans is morality beyond that of pack instinct.
consider evolution. why is it that the more "recent" species of animals have been found in deeper sections of the earth, were theoretically the older ones should be.
maybe i'm confused, but these truths seem to point to consistent truth stemming from the bible.
please correct me if i'm wrong about anything.
-dynamic
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lostangel
Jan 28, 2002, 3:20 AM
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I use climbing as a meditation, therefor my faith would come first, although they seem to come hand-in-hand
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dynamic
Jan 28, 2002, 3:33 AM
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(i pick god) but climbing is stinkin' awesome too.
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