|
actionfigure
Sep 1, 2004, 10:34 PM
Post #51 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 18, 2004
Posts: 107
|
billcoe
go ahead and keep doin' it like you always have, because people don't ever figure out better ways of doing things. excuse me for having an opinion sir.
|
|
|
|
|
sarcat
Sep 1, 2004, 10:41 PM
Post #52 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
--
Edit: I don't know what I'm talking about. Ignore me.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 4:24 AM
Post #53 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: [bizarre rambling deleted] I think jt512 owes me an apology for his pathetic attempts to sandbag me at New Jack City (that horrible horrible chosspile nobody wants to climb at) and Williamson.
I was going to sandbag you by telling you that Carpe Diem is really 12a afterall, but then Pbjosh broke off the crux foothold, so I can no longer keep say it's 12a and keep a straight face.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
bvb
Sep 2, 2004, 4:55 AM
Post #54 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 954
|
what did i miss?
exactly why are you apologizing to that underweight, undersized, four-eyed can't-crank-for-shit midget sportclimbing chuffmonger who's only real regret in life is that he missed out on the lycra era?
wtf??
|
|
|
|
|
bvb
Sep 2, 2004, 4:59 AM
Post #55 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 954
|
In reply to: while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber rd
bwahahahahaha
i think to qualfy as a "super 5.13 climber" you need to be able to boulder B1 minus.
DENIED.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 5:01 AM
Post #56 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: In reply to: while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber rd bwahahahahaha i think to qualfy as a "super 5.13 climber" you need to be able to boulder B1 minus.
DENIED.
Obviously, you don't. ;)
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
bvb
Sep 2, 2004, 5:05 AM
Post #57 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 954
|
veeeeeery funny jay. i have some amusing warm-up's you might enjoy this weekend.....
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 5:07 AM
Post #58 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: veeeeeery funny jay. i have some amusing warm-up's you might enjoy this weekend.....
Bob, it's bad enough that they're making me trad climb this weekend; there's no way I'm going to boulder too.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
bvb
Sep 2, 2004, 5:10 AM
Post #59 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 954
|
welcome to flagstaff. you will be made to suff :P er.
|
|
|
|
|
diesel___smoke
Sep 2, 2004, 5:17 AM
Post #60 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2003
Posts: 507
|
Why is this intentionally being allowed to remain in the wrong forum? I wonder, does it have anything to do with the apology being directed to Jt512, and thus receives preferential treatment?
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 5:27 AM
Post #61 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
In reply to: Why is this intentionally being allowed to remain in the wrong forum? I wonder, does it have anything to do with the apology being directed to Jt512, and thus receives preferential treatment?
Nomination in the Most Trivial Imagined Nazi-Mod Conspiracy Award Category.
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
diesel___smoke
Sep 2, 2004, 5:39 AM
Post #62 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 9, 2003
Posts: 507
|
Hehe... should I win, will you send me a foil hat like those Atg200 keeps awarding me so I may continue to elude the black helicopters successfully?
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Sep 2, 2004, 5:47 AM
Post #63 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
In reply to: I was going to sandbag you by telling you that Carpe Diem is really 12a afterall, but then Pbjosh broke off the crux foothold, so I can no longer keep say it's 12a and keep a straight face. -Jay
I did no such thing. I have broken several things off that climb but so far none of them have been important.
I have broken key holds off many climbs, just not this one :)
|
|
|
|
|
extrememountaineer
Sep 2, 2004, 6:14 AM
Post #64 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 377
|
Based on jt512's condescending, "holier-than-thou" attitude toward people, I would say he owes a lot more apologies than he has coming to him. He was front and center during my character assasination. In fact, there are a lot of people on this site that owe me apologies, but, I don't expect them because I am not part of the "IN" crowd here. Go ahead and keep stroking yourselves and each other...it makes me want to puke!
|
|
|
|
|
extrememountaineer
Sep 2, 2004, 6:18 AM
Post #65 of 143
(6677 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 377
|
What are you apologizing to him for? Has he ever apologized to anyone else for his abrasive behavior? He was front and center during my character assasination but I'll bet he won't ever apologize. In fact, ONE person expressed regrets over how I was treated and he knows who he is. The rest of you can keep stroking each other and holding your brown-nosing sessions. This site is all about "who you know".
|
|
|
|
|
norushnomore
Sep 2, 2004, 10:59 AM
Post #66 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2002
Posts: 414
|
[quote="asandh"]I give up too.
Just like Bush supporters, some people will never get it .... :wink:
http://www.climbing.com/techtips/trad/tttrad217/
I don't think that much would change if you substitute cordelette connected to the two achors with just one achor while working your way out. You can always back it up at the end.
Now what do you do after that? Going for help as this author suggests might not be that easy on a pitch 3. And don't forget you have about 30-40 min while your partner is hanging or you not going to need much help at all.
|
|
|
|
|
karlbaba
Sep 2, 2004, 11:29 AM
Post #67 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 1159
|
I think it's important that folks understand the vulnerability of daisy loops to failure when you clip a biner to two loops instead of just one. That's the important safety issue that everyone should be able to agree on.
I point that weakness out to folks all the time, and they are surprised when they finally realize the vulnerability. That said, it would take a fairly freak accident or combination of lame rigging before that weakness translated into failure of the chain resulting in tragedy, but why tempt fate when keeping your practices strong is so easy?
But that doesn't mean a daisy chain can't be useful tool for trad climbing. I always climb with one for these reasons.
1. I clip mine to the powerpoint of my cordalette or a bomber piece to have my length of tie-in to the anchor dialed for maximum comfort. This is backed up by a rope tie in. I often lead in blocks and flake the incoming rope over the slackened rope between me and the anchor.
When my partner arrives, she clips in with her daisy and we switch rope ends. In my experience, this results in less tangles than flipping the pile, which often loses the subtle accuracy of mindful rope flaking. (IE to make sure your rope flakes without hanging on itself, you start with long flakes and shorten them slightly each time so the loops don't catch on the previous loops when paying the stack back out)
Tangles are a greater practical safety issue than some of this more theoretical stuff we're talking about cause when you're on lead and making a move and the belayer fails to pay the rope due to tangles, it's quite easy to fall as a result. Really fall, not just theoretically fall.
2. Coming up on a tight chimney on multi-pitch? Hang your pack from the end (Or somewhere down there) of your daisy for maximum chimney climbing advantage.
3. Climbing getting desparate or off-route? Tie a cordalette into an aider. With a one aider, one daisy combo, it possible to aid most anything in a pinch.
4. Long offwidth but few big cams? Need to rest a bit to save your hide? Daisy to a big cam and slide it up ahead of you. When the guns fail, sit on it. Sure this is bad form but on long mixed routes like the Nose, it's standard procedure. In any case, hanging on your daisy when you're a long way up a trad pitch is easier than calling for tension down to your belayer who has to pull all the slack out of the system.
5. When the second comes up and needs to hand me the gear. I like to have them clip it to a variety of loops on my daisy chain which extends from me to the anchor. That way, we both work at our own pace and the gear is spread out for easy identification and retrieval.
6. There's more but I just happen to be up at a crazy hour of the morning and that's enough
I use adjustable daisies when I Aid climb but stick to the looped daisies for trad climbing cause they are at least three times stronger. If you're going to use adjustables, use Yates and back-up with the rope asap after the rope swap. Metolious 300 pounders have almost no place in trad climbing.
Folks have their own systems, which I respect. It's important to be safe, being anal is optional, but a valid personal option. But don't kill yourself with safety. (not pointing to any specific practice with that but if you're too anal and find yourself climbing into the night, how safe is that?)
Peace
Karl
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Sep 2, 2004, 2:08 PM
Post #68 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
I have two spectra daisies on my trad harness. The ends of both are girth hitched to the leg loops and waist and also to the lockers I have on both ends. I usually clip both to my anchors. I don't see anyone else using this setup and it is rather a cluster at times. But on rappels, it's nice having two points of contact while I set up the rap device. I like tying in with the rope at my anchors while on lead, which leaves one daisy on the harness unused.
Those I have seen who use slings to tie into the anchors and the rope often don't use two contact points on the rappels. I see them using their single slings at the rap anchors all of the time, as you are no longer tied into the rope when you rappel.
I see people use adjustable daisies now for personal tie-ins as opposed to sewn daisies. Two people I climb with so far have this set-up. Both of them have a single adjustable.
There's obvioulsly a lot of variation out there in what personal tie-in setups we all use. It's good to hear some discussion of each and really look at the downsides and benefits.
|
|
|
|
|
sarcat
Sep 2, 2004, 2:16 PM
Post #69 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2004
Posts: 1560
|
I thought I was the only one who used 2 daisies on my harness. Like you one goes unused at times when the rope is clove hitched in. They both get used when setting up a rappel.
I see others use a draw or two or three as a second tie in point when setting up a rappel. Not that there is anything wrong with it that I can think of it just dosen't look right.
Question: Do you carry a spare locker for the rope tie off, use a quick-draw or what? I carry a separate locker. It seems to always get in the way. My brother like to clip a draw then hitch into the bottom biner.
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Sep 2, 2004, 2:34 PM
Post #70 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
In reply to: Question: Do you carry a spare locker for the rope tie off, use a quick-draw or what? I carry a separate locker. It seems to always get in the way. My brother like to clip a draw then hitch into the bottom biner.
No, I don't carry a dedicated locker on my harness for that. I usually have one, though. I'm still refining the way I rack gear, what I bring, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Sep 2, 2004, 3:18 PM
Post #71 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
I do that too tim, but I clove hitch the ends to the lockers.
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Sep 2, 2004, 3:33 PM
Post #72 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: I see them using their single slings at the rap anchors all of the time, as you are no longer tied into the rope when you rappel.
This is one of the most common mistakes that I see at the crags. They tend to do the same when cleaning anchors on single pitch climbs with a rap descent.
It is a really bad habit as far as I am concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
alpnclmbr1
Sep 2, 2004, 3:38 PM
Post #73 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 3060
|
In reply to: Question: Do you carry a spare locker for the rope tie off, use a quick-draw or what? I carry a separate locker. It seems to always get in the way. My brother like to clip a draw then hitch into the bottom biner.
Yes, I carry one or two light D's for this purpose.(second one is often in case my second didn't bring one)
I use a medium weight dedicated locker cloved or githed to my daisy.
Using a draw to clip the rope to an anchor is bad, a single non-locker is better, and a locker is better yet.
|
|
|
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Sep 2, 2004, 4:11 PM
Post #74 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
|
I have a short24" daisy girth hitched to my harness at all times. I use it for most of the reasons that Carl babba stated. The daisy is the quckest way to clip yourself into rap stations or belays, if I am going to be belaying I back it up with a clove hitch on the rope. haveing that daisy permantly attached to my harness allows me to cheat at a moments notice, jug lines, clip into a piece without dealing with a bunch of rope streach, dangle a pack. verry usefull part of my system. You just need to understand its limitations.
|
|
|
|
|
timstich
Sep 2, 2004, 5:18 PM
Post #75 of 143
(6209 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 3, 2003
Posts: 6267
|
Don't forget to include this topic in the trad climbing FAQ, rewritten for conciseness of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
