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alpnclmbr1
Sep 2, 2004, 5:26 PM
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If you are at all interested in doing it yourself, go for it. It is definitely good stuff.
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verticallaw
Sep 2, 2004, 5:32 PM
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So let me get this straight......
1) it is ok to utalize daiseys in your station provided that
a) you do not clip 2 pockets in one biner
b) you do not become "part" of the station
c) you continue to utalize the lead rope clove hitched to the powerpoints or bolts
d) you use the dasiey as a extra redundancy and for comfort but not the sole station
e) you do not belay directly off the dasiy
2) it is a matter of personal taste to use either a dasiey or a cordalette in your station provided that you colmply with point 1
3) the weakness of a dasiy is more from the individual pockets, where as the end to end points (provided that no pockets are ripped) remains strong
4) any station should be escapable quickley and easily in case of emergancy
5) the use of quickdraw's as tie in points on bolted stations is bad form, stick to lockers
does this generally sum up what is going on here??? I have used dasiey's in station for years and have had no problems with them but this topic has caused me to question their use. If these assumptions that I have listed above are correct than I have been utalizing dasies in my station correctly if not please correct my assumptions
Cheers
Mike
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dingus
Sep 2, 2004, 5:46 PM
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In reply to: 5) the use of quickdraw's as tie in points on bolted stations is bad form, stick to lockers does this generally sum up what is going on here??? I have used dasiey's in station for years and have had no problems with them but this topic has caused me to question their use. If these assumptions that I have listed above are correct than I have been utalizing dasies in my station correctly if not please correct my assumptions Cheers Mike
Your assumptions look fine to me bro. I do not concur with point number 5 "locker madness". I almost never use lockers when sport climbing and have no intention of starting. It's just extra weight, for what is basically a zero gain in safety. Typical sport anchor, slap a draw, clip it, slap the other draw so the bottom gate is opposed to the other one and clip that.
DIRT ME!
And if I'm tying to an anchor, I fail to see how a locker is any more secure than a knot. But hey, that's just me and I put runners or draws on pretty much everything.
edit: I do use lockers on anchors, bolted ones included, frequently for that matter. But I also 'don't use lockers' on bolted anchors too, and frequently at that as well. Sure, you won't have a gate getting forced open on a locker. And for gang top roping, I feel more secure with a locker on an anchor the climbers can't effectively monitor. It's the 'lockers all the time" point I'm addressing, it is not a safety issue, but one of preference.
DMT
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jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 5:50 PM
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In reply to: He was front and center during my character assasination but I'll bet he won't ever apologize.
Christ: what a persecution complex.
You posted a racist "joke" and I called you on it. It is you who owes the apology, not me.
-Jay
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jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 6:01 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I was going to sandbag you by telling you that Carpe Diem is really 12a afterall, but then Pbjosh broke off the crux foothold, so I can no longer keep say it's 12a and keep a straight face. -Jay I did no such thing. I have broken several things off that climb but so far none of them have been important.
Josh, on your last run, when you fell you broke off the right foot hold that tall people use to make the first crux move. I don't think you realized it, but I saw it happen and was the one who yelled "rock." Now you tall guys are going to have to use the hideous slopey foot hold that I use, or else do the insanely hard kalcario move.
Of course you could always do the honorable thing and glue it back.
-Jay
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dingus
Sep 2, 2004, 6:04 PM
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In reply to: What are you apologizing to him for? Has he ever apologized to anyone else for his abrasive behavior?
You clearly don't know what an apology is for. I apologized because I lied about something. And jt512 has earned, at the very least, my honesty.
he, like roughit13, has helped me out and I would be remiss to suggest otherwise.
See, it's not ABOUT jt512, it's about me... and doing the right thing.
See?
DMT
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pbjosh
Sep 2, 2004, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: Josh, on your last run, when you fell you broke off the right foot hold that tall people use to make the first crux move. I don't think you realized it, but I saw it happen and was the one who yelled "rock." Now you tall guys are going to have to use the hideous slopey foot hold that I use, or else do the insanely hard kalcario move. Of course you could always do the honorable thing and glue it back. -Jay
I was fouled up in sequence and broke some little crufty nubbin out left that I was heal hooking to try to reset my hands, and fell. When I got back on it, all the holds that I normally use were still there... if it's broken again since (not entirely unlikely) it was not I....
josh
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dirtineye
Sep 2, 2004, 6:07 PM
Post #83 of 143
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Group hug time?
Antway you made3 a good point that there can be good info about climbing matters on the internet, and another good point that actually learning how to climb is not something to learn on the internet.
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magpie
Sep 2, 2004, 6:08 PM
Post #84 of 143
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Verticallaw wrote: In reply to: 3) the weakness of a dasiy is more from the individual pockets, where as the end to end points (provided that no pockets are ripped) remains strong
An article in the latest Rock and Ice talked about short, static falls and the different forces on slings, daisies, etc. Here's a quote from the article:
In reply to: The forces generated in the daisy chain drops varied depending on which "pocket" the weight was clipped into. A sewn 54-inch nylon daisy chain with the weight clipped to the chain's middle pocket (allowing a 54-inch drop) peaked at 2200 pounds force, at which point the pockets began blowing. Four pockets ultimately ripped before the fall was stopped. Ditto when the weight was clipped to a pocket a third of the way down the daisy. The action of the daisy chain zippering from pocket to pocket slowed the fall dynamically. When the weight was clipped to the end of the daisy chain, however, and dropped from its full 54- inch extension, both of the daisy chains subjected to this punishment broke cleanly in two. Thus, beware using daisy chains as your primary belay-anchor attachments.
More reason to use the rope as an attachment point, but it made me think about how I clip into my daisies. I had often used my daisy like previously mentioned - clipped into a pocket and the end loop, but won't anymore. I'm also often surprised to see someone at the top of a pitch anchored into one sling.
Great thread. Always eager to learn safer ways to climb.
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curt
Sep 2, 2004, 6:10 PM
Post #85 of 143
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In reply to: In reply to: He was front and center during my character assasination but I'll bet he won't ever apologize. Christ: what a persecution complex. You posted a racist "joke" and I called you on it. It is you who owes the apology, not me. -Jay
Are we really going to open this old can of worms again? Oh goody--lets relive this embarrassing RC.com moment once more, for another meaningless 10 or 20 pages. :roll:
Curt
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verticallaw
Sep 2, 2004, 6:16 PM
Post #86 of 143
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Magpie wrote:
In reply to: A sewn 54-inch nylon daisy chain with the weight clipped to the chain's middle pocket (allowing a 54-inch drop) peaked at 2200 pounds force, at which point the pockets began blowing. Four pockets ultimately ripped before the fall was stopped.
so in essence the diasy actually acted in much the same fashion as a screamer? If this is the case than would it not be safer to utalize the middle pockets of the daisy to absorb the shock load in a factor 2 type fall?
Magpie wrote
In reply to: When the weight was clipped to the end of the daisy chain, however, and dropped from its full 54- inch extension, both of the daisy chains subjected to this punishment broke cleanly in two. Thus, beware using daisy chains as your primary belay-anchor attachments
obviously not an ideal situation, it seems that the above mentioned mid point clipping is the disierable of these two tests.
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jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 6:19 PM
Post #88 of 143
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In reply to: I was fouled up in sequence and broke some little crufty nubbin out left that I was heal hooking to try to reset my hands, and fell. When I got back on it, all the holds that I normally use were still there... if it's broken again since (not entirely unlikely) it was not I.... josh
Think what you want. I was 20 feet away from you, and looking right at it when it happened. I saw the hold go, yelled "rock," and watched it all the way down.
-Jay
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pbjosh
Sep 2, 2004, 6:25 PM
Post #89 of 143
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In reply to: Think what you want. I was 20 feet away from you, and looking right at it when it happened. I saw the hold go, yelled "rock," and watched it all the way down. -Jay
Then perhaps what is an important hold for other folks is not for me...
In any case it's not like there's nothing else that's going to break off that climb, I've broken a few other things off it and have seen many other people do the same.
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alpnclmbr1
Sep 2, 2004, 6:33 PM
Post #90 of 143
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In reply to: so in essence the diasy actually acted in much the same fashion as a screamer? If this is the case than would it not be safer to utalize the middle pockets of the daisy to absorb the shock load in a factor 2 type fall?
It is not designed to do that and the stitching does not dissipate energy like the stitching on a screamer. Nevertheless, it makes sense to me, but I do not have anything to back that idea up.
as far as your previous post.
I dot not like daisies or cordelettes for multipitch sport. (to bulky)
I like to incorporate one fig 8 on a bight usually paired with a locker somewhere in the anchor. Cloves for the rest.
The only practical way to keep yourself completely out of the anchor is to use a cordelette.
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billcoe_
Sep 2, 2004, 6:34 PM
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If I could sum up the r and i which I just rec'd yesterday. I think they are saying DO NOT USE A DAISY to belay off of at all. They point out that even new, (and they aren't new for long) the strength ratings on the material you see are designed for a slow pull, not a quick static fall which can be possible with a high fall factor fall while climbing. A quick static fall can rip the sh*t right in 2. Even if you ARE clipped to the end, like as if it was a regular runner.
They hypothise that the reason belays don't fail all the time is due to few true fall factor 2 falls in real life, bodies are pliant and soft, and absorbe some of the stress when, or if, those few instances that a real fall occurs.
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jt512
Sep 2, 2004, 6:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Think what you want. I was 20 feet away from you, and looking right at it when it happened. I saw the hold go, yelled "rock," and watched it all the way down. -Jay Then perhaps what is an important hold for other folks is not for me... In any case it's not like there's nothing else that's going to break off that climb, I've broken a few other things off it and have seen many other people do the same.
Relax, Josh. If it was going to break, it was going to break.
-Jay
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megableem
Sep 2, 2004, 6:49 PM
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pbjosh
Sep 2, 2004, 6:50 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Think what you want. I was 20 feet away from you, and looking right at it when it happened. I saw the hold go, yelled "rock," and watched it all the way down. -Jay Then perhaps what is an important hold for other folks is not for me... In any case it's not like there's nothing else that's going to break off that climb, I've broken a few other things off it and have seen many other people do the same. Relax, Josh. If it was going to break, it was going to break. -Jay
I'm not worried about it :) I just didn't notice anything missing after yarding up...
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usmc_2tothetop
Sep 2, 2004, 7:04 PM
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I did not read the original thread but props to dingus for recognizing an apology need made. Some people can be too stuborn for that. I did read on the first post that using a daisy chain as an anchor was dangerous. If I had not read this I probly would have used one. Why is this so (the danger)?????
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tripperjm
Sep 2, 2004, 7:18 PM
Post #96 of 143
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In reply to: In reply to: while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber rd bwahahahahaha i think to qualfy as a "super 5.13 climber" you need to be able to boulder B1 minus.
DENIED. In reply to: In reply to: veeeeeery funny jay. i have some amusing warm-up's you might enjoy this weekend..... Bob, it's bad enough that they're making me trad climb this weekend; there's no way I'm going to boulder too. -Jay
Uhmmm.... Jay should have cleared this up... and owes me a apology! You said why you were bailing on the project was, you were "going to AZ to do some steep limestone". You are on the verge of doing your 1st 5.13, and now I find out, this way???, that you are going TRAD climbing? URRRRG!!!1 I'll send that thing this long weekend and be off to the next project and you won't have a belayer. HAHAHA!!!1
And this thing about being a "super 13 climber". Over the years I have rp'ed dozens of 13's, established a number of them and I'm not even a "low life 5.13 climber". The Hubar's and others at that caliber are "super 5.13 climbers", none of us are even close.
In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I was going to sandbag you by telling you that Carpe Diem is really 12a afterall, but then Pbjosh broke off the crux foothold, so I can no longer keep say it's 12a and keep a straight face. -Jay I did no such thing. I have broken several things off that climb but so far none of them have been important. Josh, on your last run, when you fell you broke off the right foot hold that tall people use to make the first crux move. I don't think you realized it, but I saw it happen and was the one who yelled "rock." Now you tall guys are going to have to use the hideous slopey foot hold that I use, or else do the insanely hard kalcario move. Of course you could always do the honorable thing and glue it back. -Jay
In reply to: Come in to the shadows my young jeti... if you glue that foot hold back... your transformation will be complete!
Oh yea... I thought about comming out to AZ.... climbsomethings suductive pm's almost lured me. Uhmmm... climbsomething!!! But.... the thought of hanging out with a bunch of washed up drunks, spraying about how good they used to be, kinda made me want to wrech.
Wait a minute... I guess I owe an apoligy. Sorry curt, bvb and any other hasbeens that were offended by my insensitive remarks.
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curt
Sep 2, 2004, 7:51 PM
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In reply to: Oh yea... I thought about comming out to AZ.... climbsomethings suductive pm's almost lured me. Uhmmm... climbsomething!!! But.... the thought of hanging out with a bunch of washed up drunks, spraying about how good they used to be, kinda made me want to wrech. Wait a minute... I guess I owe an apoligy. Sorry curt, bvb and any other hasbeens that were offended by my insensitive remarks.
Coming as this does, from one washed up hasbeen to another, I accept your apology.
Curt
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artm
Sep 2, 2004, 8:06 PM
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*to get this thread back on track*
I too owe jt512 an apology.
Jay I apologize that I have reneged on our agreement that when you came out to J-tree to climb Trad 2 days that I owed you 2 days of sport climbing.
I'm also sorry that you're such a cranky son of a gun*
*substitute gun for your favorite swear word.
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theangryenchilada
Sep 2, 2004, 8:24 PM
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In reply to: while he may be a wealth of information and be a super 5.13 climber...
im sure if jay ever even toproped a .13 and touched the anchors, he would instantly change his name to jt513.
even if its at jack's canyon.
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bvb
Sep 2, 2004, 8:47 PM
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In reply to: Are we really going to open this old can of worms again? Oh goody--lets relive this embarrassing RC.com moment once more, for another meaningless 10 or 20 pages.
absolutely. we need to new material over at b.com to use in our endless mocking of you guys.
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