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treyfrancisclimbs
Feb 7, 2005, 5:47 PM
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I just saw this recently on pagan gear's website. These hangers look like they are decent, and they have a normal strength rating, i am just wondering if anyone has used them before. My friend and I are looking into doing much bolting when the weather warms up, and right now we are getting everything (cordless drill, bolts, bits, etc.) from the county search and rescue. All we have to pay for is bolt hangers. Thanks for your time.
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tarzan420
Feb 7, 2005, 6:01 PM
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which hangers? perhaps you meant to link to the Gear DB, or a link to the product page?
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sed
Feb 7, 2005, 6:23 PM
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i just bought 50. for 95 cents you can't beat that anywhere. i've put some in already. i don't like the orientation of the bolt hole to the biner hole, the hanger hangs further right than i like but that probably doesn't mean anything. the metal is a bit thinner than some other hangers but i guess if you trust one the rating (25KN) they are fine and are stronger than most of the gear you'll be clipping into them.
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kyhangdog
Feb 7, 2005, 7:06 PM
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Weird. I just bought 50 and .95. They look good to me. Do seem a little thinner than Metolius and there isn't a brand name on them.
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treyfrancisclimbs
Feb 7, 2005, 7:47 PM
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whoops! i meant these
http://www.pagangear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=561&HS=1
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brianinslc
Feb 7, 2005, 9:32 PM
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If I had to guess, I'd say they were "Lucky" hangers.
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=667517&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=335055&bmUID=1107811933002
Stainless is nice. Be sure to match them up with stainless bolts.
Should take paint ok.
-Brian in SLC
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drector
Feb 7, 2005, 10:05 PM
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I had to do some research since all of the Fixe hangers at home are 40kn. I guess I've got the strongest around. 25kn seems to be more common these days. Looks like a great deal. I'm ordering now if they don't get all fot eh savings back in handling charges!
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jimdavis
Feb 8, 2005, 3:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: My friend and I are looking into doing much bolting when the weather warms up from your profile it says you've been climbing for a year and a half. are you sure its a good idea that you go on a n00by bolting binge?
I'll second that sentiment!
Jim
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mesomorf
Feb 8, 2005, 4:14 AM
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In reply to: I'll second that sentiment! |
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sed
Feb 8, 2005, 4:46 AM
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good point about the experience level guys. i think what they are trying to say in their i'm on the internet so i don't care how insulting i am tone is that there are a lot of bolts out there so make sure you know what you're doing and why before you put routes up. get some instruction from people who have done this sort of thing, and search and rescue people may not be the best sources of information on local climbing ethics or route/bolt placement decisions etc.,
S
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treyfrancisclimbs
Feb 8, 2005, 5:53 PM
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for all of you stupid holier than thou i've been climbing for 75 years bitches out there, you should note that my profile hasn't been updated for a year, and that my friend, who has been climbing for 12 years and bolting for 5, and i are bolting a new canyon with advice from some local climbers who have been climbing and bolting many of the routes in utah. why is it that dumbass people have to post their worthless opinion whenever someone asks a simple question? don't they realize that no one really gives a shit what they say anyway? just because you don't think i have any experience, forethought, ability, legal right, permission from the local alien population, etc. to go and bolt a few routes, doesn't mean i will even listen to you retards anyway. this is just further proof that this website is just a place for people to go and try to prove their superiority. a big thankyou to sed for not being a dick in expressing his opinion on the matter, and in answer to his post i will say that as a bolting team we have been the sole developers of this canyon and have thus far bolted 20+ routes into which we put much forethought and consideration about where we put bolts, and since we are really the only ones who climb in this area, i feel that it is safe to surmise that we are predominant in determining the ethics of this area. we aren't going to bolt any cracks or any other routes that have obvious placements, but even if we did, it is our decision since we are the ONLY ones developing this canyon. end of rant
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wings
Feb 8, 2005, 5:59 PM
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I had some sympathy for you until you wrote your last post. All sympathy now gone. Next time, choose your words more wisely.
- Seyil
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treyfrancisclimbs
Feb 8, 2005, 6:04 PM
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sorry about the unwise choice of words, i just can't stand when someone posts a simple question on this site and they are berated for anything and everything by the so called climbing community. i just wanted an answer to my question, not a lesson on ethics, or whether or not i am competent enough to bolt a route. i was just letting off a little steam and i chose some offensive words. i apologize for the toxicity of my last post
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kpalsson
Feb 8, 2005, 6:06 PM
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Why the hell should he? No-one else did. If he hadn't gotten in already, I was going to release some flames in the direction of people who feel that the most important part of someone asking a question is to click and read their profile. Oh and then to ignore the question, and just hurl insults.
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edge
Feb 8, 2005, 6:10 PM
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I think the sentiment was that if you were an inexperienced climber/bolter, then someone should call you on your plans. It was impossible to tell from your profile, and so they pointed out that you may not be qualified. You could have settled that with a few sentances and no vitriol and everyone would have moved along.
It would be far worse to entertain a n00b with information about bolting and help them potentially damage the rock. I think the climbing community should challenge those type of people.
I am glad you are not one of them. Good luck with the project.
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couchwarrior
Feb 8, 2005, 6:12 PM
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I agree this site is full of people that keep a copy of Freedom of the Hills in their basement crapper and think that qualifies them to dispense endless "advice." Their lives are lacking juice so they feel the need to piss on everyone else in an anonymous forum to compensate.
But you need to keep in mind that when you post a question here, you are going to get a bunch of useless and unfunny responses, a couple of useless but funny responses, and maybe one or two that address the spirit and point of your original message.
Best of luck with your bolting!
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treyfrancisclimbs
Feb 8, 2005, 6:20 PM
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i know i am essentially hanging my nuts out to be smacked by anybody with a bat and an opinion when i post, i guess i am just a hopeless romantic in thinking that i actually might get an answer to a question i pose. i do appreciate that some of the people on this website are willing to explain their position and reason other than the simple "you are a noob and therefore unable to wipe your own ass with out the guidance and tutilege of someone who has been crapping for at least thirty years and have had to wipe with everything from pinecones to rocks to their own fingers." i guess it is my own fault for getting bored enough that i resort to posting something on here. big ups to the members who actually feel like contributing something instead of farting in the wind
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epic_ed
Feb 8, 2005, 6:21 PM
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Trey -- I think those were legit questions based on what little info we had available via your profile. You don't need anyone's approval to go slam in a bunch of bolts, but since this is a climbing "community" and your bolting can permanently affect all of us who wish to climb in the area you're developing, it's fair to field a few questions about your experience level. Heck, you're the one who opened the can of worms, bro.
Why does anyone care? Because many of us have seen areas botched and desicrated by someone who didn't have a clue, but they had a Bosch. You may not be in that group, and may very well have sound judgement and solid experience. But it looked like you didn't. You can understand the concern, can't you?
Ed
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treyfrancisclimbs
Feb 8, 2005, 6:36 PM
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epic ed,
i can understand the concern and i agree that there is no good that can come from someone putting crappy bolted lines anywhere. i also appreciate that you are willing to actually voice concerns instead of just playing the ass u me game. i guess i got a little offended because i do have great respect for the rock and i am not into bolting just so my name can live on in guide books, and my friend and i are putting a great deal into whether or not we should bolt certain lines and faces. i just get rubbed the wrong way when people play that ass u me game. besides, maybe i am lying about my profile anyway. maybe i have been climbing since rocks first began forming and i just want to keep a low profile and stay humble
peace out napoleon
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tradklime
Feb 8, 2005, 8:21 PM
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Trey, thanks for pointing them out as a good deal to be had. I ordered a bunch myself. I am sure they will work just fine.
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lemon_boy
Feb 8, 2005, 9:58 PM
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i think brianinslc had a pretty good point about using stainless steel bolts with the hangers. if you use a standard (zinc) plated bolt there is the possibility of galvanic corrosion. if you look at the galvanic chart (check out http:/www.mcnallyinstitute.com/CDweb/g-html/g001.htm), the further apart the two materials are on the list, the greater the expected corrosion. i'm not sure which series of stainless steel is used for the hangers, but over a long period of time in an exposed environment, i feel it could potentially lead to problems. many people are under the misunderstanding that there needs to be moisture for the corrosion to happen, but this isn't so. it just needs oxygen. some people recommend encasing the bolt head/hanger area with epoxy or RTV, but that gets pretty messy.
I saw the hangers on that website and thought about buying them, but then looking at the price of stainless versus plated rawl bolts (especially when you start looking at 1/2" bolts) made me decide not to buy them. in the areas that i frequent, i feel that stainless is not that necessary. some may argue that they are always necessary, and i respect their opinion. another reason that i prefer the plated bolts is that they do not seem as sensitive to torque as stainless. in pretty much every application that i have ever used stainless or plated bolts, i have found that i break infinitely more stainless bolts than plated bolts while tightening. this might be a complete fluke, but...?
anyway, hope that gives you some useable feedback.
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mtengaio
Feb 8, 2005, 10:25 PM
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I ordered 40 of the hangers but have yet to use due to winter conditoins here in Idaho Falls, ID. We'll see how they work this spring.
By the way, I'm interested to know where you've been putting in new routes - I'm always up for quick road trip to Utah!
Peace.
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mack_north
Feb 8, 2005, 10:52 PM
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Trey,
Those hangers will work just fine. My cousin Lou used them for several routes he put up in Sweetgrass Canyon. I heard a rumor that some kid broke one and took a 30 footer that left him paralyzed but he ended up with a free van that he can drive by blowing air through his nose, so it all worked out.
Mack
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jimdavis
Feb 9, 2005, 7:59 PM
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Trey, I have been climbing for 3 years, worked with a High Angle SAR team for 2, and wouldn't go near a drill.
I know a lot of SAR guys that would slam in 3 1/2"ers if it'd make a climb "easier" for them.
The rock is a limited resource. It took a long time to form, and we're not gonna see much more new rock anytime soon. No-one wants to see it get destroyed.
You profile said 1.5 years, and it was created a year ago, tops? If you've got a friend that's been bolting for years, wouldn't he know what hangers were decent?
When concerns were raised, a simple, "yeah, but my buddy has been developing routes for years and is working with me on it" would have been just fine.
Climbing is an experience driven sport, cause it's easy to f* up and hurt yourself.
Most of the members aren't "holier than thou", well some are; but we are concerned for safety, access issues, and preserving the rock.
Cheers,
Jim
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sed
Feb 9, 2005, 8:28 PM
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lemon boy, i'm not the all-wise guru that many propose to be but in my experience and the information i've gathered, if you are shearing or breaking bolts, whether steel or stainless, you are probably tightening too hard. sleeve anchor bolts don't require superhuman torque to be correct and in fact when they are tightened that tight they may be on the verge of breaking. maybe you need a kryptonite amulet around your neck to cut down on that brute force but with all due respect you really shouldn't be breaking bolts when you tighten them.
thanks for reading my drivel.
S
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caughtinside
Feb 9, 2005, 8:56 PM
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In reply to: Trey, I have been climbing for 3 years, worked with a High Angle SAR team for 2, and wouldn't go near a drill.
This means nothing. You can't project your experience and values onto others. Your situation and treys are completely different.
And .95 is a great price for a SS hanger. 8^)
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madrock
Dec 12, 2005, 8:23 PM
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How did :Has anyones used these hangers ?" turn into. "I did this, I'm a rescue guy, ethics stuff" Not everything posted is about you or how cool you are.
I have all three hangers in my hand. The Metolius hanger, the Pagan hanger and the Petzle hangers are all the same thinckness and all seem pretty good (no sharp edges). The Pagan and the Metolius are the same weight (approx 53 grms and the Petzl weighs less but is smaller. The metolius has no strength stamped on it at all, the Petzl is stamped 25kN and the Pagan is stamped 24kN. Hope the facts are helpful.
One other note. I have seen many brands of hangers test up to 40kN no problems, most companies just do not stamp and rate them that high.
Update and FYI in case you did not already read it earlier. I work in the climbing industy. I buy from, sell to, own or have connections to almost every climbing comapany in the world. Clear enough for everyone. I am bias and you cannot trust me.
Joe
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aryemanhattanforme
Dec 20, 2005, 3:11 AM
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This is an insane thread, which might very well be redundant.
First, jimdavis says, in a Feb 9, 2005 post, that he's been climbing for 3 years. Holy crap, I've spent more time NOT climbing due to life/injuries/etc. than you've been climbing. And, you post to everyone on this site like you are the end all be all of the climbing world. Dude, take a couple of deep breaths and relax. You don't have the experience you think you do. Sure, you're entitled to your opinions, but be careful . . . climbing may not be rocket science, but it can be somewhat esoteric and dodgy.
Second, madrock - you've posted that the Metolius, Pagan and Petzle (sic) hangers are nearly identical. Perhaps now would be a good time for you to tell everyone what your connections to Pagan, Acme, Mad Rock, etc. are! Don't push the Pagan shit without disclosing that you are a part owner.
As to the original post: If you are looking for useful info on what bolts to use, I suggest you seek the advice of people whose faces you recognize, whose actions you know, and whose behavior you actually want to emulate.
Now, its time for some more Rye.
~Manhattans anyone?
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paganmonkeyboy
Dec 20, 2005, 3:37 AM
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In reply to: ~Manhattans anyone?
Yes, please. Muddled, like this thread...
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aryemanhattanforme
Dec 20, 2005, 3:41 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: ~Manhattans anyone? Yes, please. Muddled, like this thread...
Shaken, stirred, muddled . . . just know they'll be perfect.
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metrogroaz
Dec 20, 2005, 3:59 AM
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In reply to: Second, madrock - you've posted that the Metolius, Pagan and Petzle (sic) hangers are nearly identical. Perhaps now would be a good time for you to tell everyone what your connections to Pagan, Acme, Mad Rock, etc. are! Don't push the Pagan s--- without disclosing that you are a part owner.
I'm confused as to when he pushed the pagan hangers?
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rockguide
Dec 20, 2005, 4:14 AM
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Wading through the fire ....
Yes - hangers are probably strong enough ... I use one that looks similar (sticks neck out ... how much can one see) but a big issue is the thinner hangers can chew up quickdraw carabiners. Not an issue on mixed bolt/gear routes or long routes. On sport routes that see air time ... not the best.
Beef for sport (big falls, lots of falls, falls with little rope out)
Thin for long routes (hopefully few falls with lots of rope out and lots of weight to haul to the drillin stance.)
Look forward to seeing the topos (post up or you cannot be my friend)
Brian
(ps ... sorry - too busy to flame - I'll make up for it next week)
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baigot
Dec 20, 2005, 4:22 AM
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Hey! all you:
To the guy who start this: Why don´t you send an e-mail to ASCA people??? I understand there´s responsable people there... imagine if in this site you follow a guy who fuck with you answering "YES...this hanger resist 400kn" and the next day you kill someone or yourself.
And i join the guy who said that if this guy´s friends is 12 years experience, he should know by now whic hanger is good or not...
Come On !!!
This is climbing, there´s bunch of good questions to be answered...
By the way: I´m 6 or 7 years climbing experience and i prefer a cam or a stopper for a new line instead a drill, i feel un-experienced and i think there´s a long road to take the responsability of bolt a route.
Cheers
Vicente.
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jakedatc
Dec 20, 2005, 4:32 AM
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In reply to: This is an insane thread, which might very well be redundant. Second, madrock - you've posted that the Metolius, Pagan and Petzle (sic) hangers are nearly identical. Perhaps now would be a good time for you to tell everyone what your connections to Pagan, Acme, Mad Rock, etc. are! Don't push the Pagan s--- without disclosing that you are a part owner.
I think it's mostly MadRock trying to chase down a thread he can throw flames at JimDavis in their little war.. why else would he bring up a thread almost a year old :roll: :drama:
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Dec 20, 2005, 4:44 AM
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:lol:
Ahh, good times, good times...
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aryemanhattanforme
Dec 20, 2005, 5:13 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Second, madrock - you've posted that the Metolius, Pagan and Petzle (sic) hangers are nearly identical. Perhaps now would be a good time for you to tell everyone what your connections to Pagan, Acme, Mad Rock, etc. are! Don't push the Pagan s--- without disclosing that you are a part owner. I'm confused as to when he pushed the pagan hangers?
You're probably right. In my drunken stupor, I went and assumed that Pagan wasn't on the same level as Petzl and Metolius; and that by equating his own company to those others, Mad Rock was pushing product. Mea culpa.
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metrogroaz
Dec 20, 2005, 5:34 AM
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In reply to: In my drunken stupor
Its all good, in my drunken stupor, I actually was confused as to when he physically pushed them? What'd the hanger do to him?
Its all good. Well except I forgot how you respond in latin. For shame.
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brutusofwyde
Dec 20, 2005, 6:37 AM
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In reply to: Its all good. Well except I forgot how you respond in latin. For shame.
Carpe cervesum.
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locker
Dec 20, 2005, 6:45 AM
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considering some of the stuff I have used through the years, both on my own routes and clipping ungodly who knows what, I'd venture to say the hangers are GOOD ENOUGH and that is GOOD ENOUGH!!!...
but don't go by what I say... all I know is I have some and metolius and fixe. I trust them all with my life!!!...
and last week I clipped a rusted, old, thin, homemade monster, and gave it a sideways glance as I climbed by it........
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rockguide
Dec 20, 2005, 7:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Its all good. Well except I forgot how you respond in latin. For shame. Carpe cervesum.
Can we set these manners aside and get back to the ad hominem that made this site great?
Brian
(but I will still take the beer)
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healyje
Dec 20, 2005, 7:30 AM
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In reply to: we aren't going to bolt any cracks or any other routes that have obvious placements, but even if we did, it is our decision since we are the ONLY ones developing this canyon. end of rant
Choose your thoughts more carefully too...
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aryemanhattanforme
Dec 20, 2005, 7:34 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Its all good. Well except I forgot how you respond in latin. For shame. Carpe cervesum. Can we set these manners aside and get back to the ad hominem that made this site great? Brian (but I will still take the beer)
. . . . and the ad nauseam too.
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brent_e
Dec 20, 2005, 7:44 PM
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easy there, trey.
Jim and Euroford are good guys just looking out for the rock, access, etc.
No need to feel attached and to attach. Perhaps you can save face by, you know, seeing that you jumped a little bit and say "sorry"!!!??? :D
Your tag is pretty funny, btw..what is that???
Brent
EDIT: mmmmm cease the beer!
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madrock
Dec 22, 2005, 10:07 PM
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My statement below seems pretty neutral and does not apper to favor any paticular hanger. I'm sorry if someone thinks there is a sales pitch in it. Please reread and I think you will agree.
I have all three hangers in my hand. The Metolius hanger, the Pagan hanger and the Petzle hangers are all the same thinckness and all seem pretty good (no sharp edges). The Pagan and the Metolius are the same weight (approx 53 grms and the Petzl weighs less but is smaller. The metolius has no strength stamped on it at all, the Petzl is stamped 25kN and the Pagan is stamped 24kN. Hope the facts are helpful.
Update and FYI in case you did not already read it earlier. I work in the climbing industy. I buy from, drink beers with, sell to, own, climb with staff from or have connections to almost every climbing comapany in the world. Clear enough for everyone. I am bias and you cannot trust me.
If any of my three or four industry post stalkers want to follow me again, I have just posted something on the North face thread. Please come and muddle that post also.
Joe
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billcoe_
Dec 22, 2005, 10:41 PM
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In reply to: My statemnet below seems pretty neutral and does not apper to favor any paticular hanger. I'm sorry if someone thinks there is a sales pitch in it. Please reread and I think you will agree. I have all three hangers in my hand. The Metolius hanger, the Pagan hanger and the Petzle hangers are all the same thinckness and all seem pretty good (no sharp edges). The Pagan and the Metolius are the same weight (approx 53 grms and the Petzl weighs less but is smaller. The metolius has no strength stamped on it at all, the Petzl is stamped 25kN and the Pagan is stamped 24kN. Hope the facts are helpful.
One other note. I have seen many brands of hangers test up to 40kN no problems, most companies just do not stamp and rate them that high. For the record, I am bias, work in the industry and have a connection to almost every climbing company in the world. Joe
Seems neutral to me:
Given some of the posts which are in this thread, it must be a prerequisite that you post here only after smoking out and/or drinking in excess of 12 beers or so. Climbing @33 years. For years 1/4" bolts were used. Almost all 1/4 bolt hangers were thinner than any 3/8 made today. Smaller too. Folks rarely saw a bolt or hanger failure (they did happen, I still have a hanger/bolt combo which pulled out on my second with bodyweight only on the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral bolt ladder still stuck in my chalkbag from 20 some plus years ago to remind me of this fact)
I don't feel uncomfortable climbing on any commercially made 3/8 hanger out there today.
You shouldn't either.
For massive projects, the Pagan stuff would really be the schizz: leaving you some $ in the bank for food.
Metolius makes some superb thicker hangers which are great for directly threading and rapping on, and fixe has the ringed hangers to duplicate that feat. If you want to spend the green and want to directly rappel off the anchor - get one of those: otherwise why not get the Pagan/Mad rock/Acme hangers and save some scratch. They are rated about as strong as the 3/8 bolts rate at, which is plenty good. (Assuming a perfect install on the bolt).
Lighten up some out there eh?
BTW: installation of bolts should be carefully and skillfully done IMO. Much more important than any hanger you are gonna stick on it. Check this out:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...hp?p=1270661#1270661
regards all:
bill
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aryemanhattanforme
Dec 22, 2005, 11:44 PM
Post #49 of 52
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 29
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In reply to: My statement below seems pretty neutral and does not apper to favor any paticular hanger. I'm sorry if someone thinks there is a sales pitch in it. Please reread and I think you will agree. I have all three hangers in my hand. The Metolius hanger, the Pagan hanger and the Petzle hangers are all the same thinckness and all seem pretty good (no sharp edges). The Pagan and the Metolius are the same weight (approx 53 grms and the Petzl weighs less but is smaller. The metolius has no strength stamped on it at all, the Petzl is stamped 25kN and the Pagan is stamped 24kN. Hope the facts are helpful.
Update and FYI in case you did not already read it earlier. I work in the climbing industy. I buy from, drink beers with, sell to, own, climb with staff from or have connections to almost every climbing comapany in the world. Clear enough for everyone. I am bias and you cannot trust me.
If any of my three or four industry post stalkers want to follow me again, I have just posted something on the North face thread. Please come and muddle that post also.
Joe
Hey Joe,
I filed a mea culpa, and used drunken stupor as my defense. It's similar to the twinkie defense.
~Josh
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treyfrancisclimbs
Dec 23, 2005, 12:17 AM
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Registered: May 30, 2004
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Wow! I thought this thread died long ago. FYI, I would never take anyone's opinion on this site to heart, it was just a simple question.
Brent_e, that is a quote from the movie Mystery Men. One of my favorites.
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billcoe_
Dec 23, 2005, 1:13 AM
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In reply to: Hey Joe, I filed a mea culpa, and used drunken stupor as my defense. It's similar to the twinkie defense. ~Josh
Hey Arye, I see that now! :P Dude, have you patented that phrase yet or can I use it next time the authorities drag my sorry ass into lockup so as to get released? :lol:
Trey, you might have that entire valley grid bolted by now! What did you wind up using and when do we get invited to come climb at your new super-secret crag?
Manhattan can bring the booze (duhh!) :lol: :lol:
Regards:
bill
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aryemanhattanforme
Dec 23, 2005, 6:58 PM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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In reply to: In reply to: Hey Joe, I filed a mea culpa, and used drunken stupor as my defense. It's similar to the twinkie defense. ~Josh Hey Arye, I see that now! :P Dude, have you patented that phrase yet or can I use it next time the authorities drag my sorry ass into lockup so as to get released? :lol: Trey, you might have that entire valley grid bolted by now! What did you wind up using and when do we get invited to come climb at your new super-secret crag? Manhattan can bring the booze (duhh!) :lol: :lol: Regards: bill
Bill,
Use the phrase at will. History will treat me as it will.
I wouldn't even think about going somewhere with the booze, and I always share.
~Josh
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