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gemini123
Apr 13, 2005, 11:12 PM
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I wouldnt bother with this climbing area. The bolts are new, but the rock is such poor quality I'm surprised someone even took the time and effort to bolt the route. The rock breaks off very easily. A fall could cause the rock to crumble. In addition to this, there is ton of Poison oak around. Save yourself the 15 minute bushwack for nothing!
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mistymountainhop
Apr 13, 2005, 11:38 PM
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Yeah, it seems like alot of craigs i go to our riddled with bolts. the routes might be crap, but hey its climbable and someone got an Fa!
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slavetogravity
Apr 13, 2005, 11:57 PM
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In reply to: ... Seems now-a-days the new generation will bolt anything just so they can spray, "I FA'd a route !!!", and what makes it worse is that they'll rate it way soft so they can spray, "I FA'd a 5.XX !!!", when the route is really a 5.9+. :roll:
Yes I've seen this kind of thing many times at my local crag. My response to those who go out spraying about some FA of bolted POS.
Spray lord. "I Got the First accent!"
Me. "And you're proud of that?"
I can't speak for where ever you're used to climbing but here in BC the "new generation" sure aint' the ones responsible for the Choss pile Grid bolting. (Kelowna being a notable exception) It's mostly just middle aged men in the grips of their mid life crises. If your from BC you probably know of who I'm talking about.
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roughster
Apr 14, 2005, 6:26 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ...I'm surprised someone even took the time and effort to bolt the route. I'm not... Seems now-a-days the new generation will bolt anything just so they can spray, "I FA'd a route !!!", and what makes it worse is that they'll rate it way soft so they can spray, "I FA'd a 5.XX !!!", when the route is really a 5.9+. :roll:
In reply to: Yes I've seen this kind of thing many times at my local crag. My response to those who go out spraying about some FA of bolted POS. Spray lord. "I Got the First accent!" Me. "And you're proud of that?" I can't speak for where ever you're used to climbing but here in BC the "new generation" sure aint' the ones responsible for the Choss pile Grid bolting. (Kelowna being a notable exception) It's mostly just middle aged men in the grips of their mid life crises. If your from BC you probably know of who I'm talking about.
I'll play the developers advocate here (pun intended).
rrradam: With a statement like that, I would assume you would have some real examples to back that up. I am not trying to put you on the spot (or I am), but certainly you are not refering to SoCal Developers right? People who do the choss mining ARE what allows to climb at other areas besides JT and Tahquitz/Suicide. As for Laguna, I don't know who bolted it orginally but I can tell you that it is featured in the Hunk Guide by Vogel, which means most likely it was bolted before you even started climbing. So whats with the "new generation" thing? As for the ratings, ratings are usually "extreme" one way or the other until a consensus is reached. FA's that happen on the day of developing have a tendency to get soft grades due to fatigue. FA's by inexperienced people actually tend to be sandbags IME. I have yet in my experience of climbing over 10 years have seen a developer spraying about his/her developed routes in the context you used. Do you have an example?
Slavetogravity: You speak pretty strong words for someone with a profile like this:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=42531
...but that is besides the point. You obviously have an example in mind. Answer this: have you had the balls to say what you typed here to his face? You seem to know the guy pretty well if you can make the assessment that he is in the middle of a midlife crisis, so perhaps you owe it to him to talk to him about it?
Or perhaps instead of your tough guy banter on the internet, he, unlike you, likes to climb for himself and doesn't give a shit about what you think? Perhaps he enjoys putting up new routes regardless of rock quality because he can see through the choss that others turn their noses up at. Sometimes crags get bolted because they are close to home, convinient, will serve a purpose like a local resource etc... You are more than entitled to disaggree with that happening, but be a man about it at least.
Alot of time I think naysayers don't think abou tthe fact that the good rock is gone folks. The 5 minute approach from a car next to a major metropilis area with pristine rock crag is either nonexistant or it has already been developed. Those people (of which I am one) who like to develop rock are out looking for these "other" areas because we like to develop, period. Its not to impress NOobie posers on the net or talk tough about people behind their backs.
Anyways, for those interested in understand who/why Laguna was developed should probably start by asking Vogel...you know...the guy who wrote the Joshua Tree Guidebook. You have probably heard of him right???
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dingus
Apr 14, 2005, 6:46 PM
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I seem to recall a vid of Spider Dan free soloing something on that choss pile, so that must go back 10 or maybe even 15 years ago.
Yeah, that evil younger generation...
DMT
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hasbeen
Apr 14, 2005, 7:51 PM
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I believe the vid in question is Dan soloing Beach Crack at Mickey's. Not really a choss pile though, um, it did fall into the ocean about 10 years ago. If you can find it the entertainment value (unintentional humor, by far the best kind) is quite high.
In reply to: rrradam wrote: ... Seems now-a-days the new generation will bolt anything just so they can spray, "I FA'd a route !!!", and what makes it worse is that they'll rate it way soft so they can spray, "I FA'd a 5.XX !!!", when the route is really a 5.9+. Yes I've seen this kind of thing many times at my local crag. My response to those who go out spraying about some FA of bolted POS. Spray lord. "I Got the First accent!" Me. "And you're proud of that?" I can't speak for where ever you're used to climbing but here in BC the "new generation" sure aint' the ones responsible for the Choss pile Grid bolting. (Kelowna being a notable exception) It's mostly just middle aged men in the grips of their mid life crises. If your from BC you probably know of who I'm talking about.
There are bad first ascentionists out there, to be sure, but these comments reek of hypocracy, banality, perhaps some jealously, and are generally reserved for neophytes who have only read rocky heights, high over boulder, and maybe the red Yosemite guide to formulate their new-found climbing philosophy and crusty burnt out bitter has beens, like myself, who just can't come to terms with the fact that kids use their old projects as approaches. I find it odd that they're being made by folks who seem to actually climb regularly at these overgraded choss piles frequented by this new age of spineless middled-aged men armed with Hiltis, sika, and a WiFi connection in a map cap attempt to create personal fame and glory.
So, I ask you, if all these insecure wankers decided to stop spending virtually all of their free time (and much of their money) devoted to exploring, trail building, cleaning, bolting, taking pics, writing guides, lobbying for access, working with land use managers, etc, just so they could be slanders but the very people they do all that work for, then where would you go on the weekends?
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roughster
Apr 14, 2005, 8:46 PM
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Great response steve.
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murf
Apr 14, 2005, 9:15 PM
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I know who developed the 5 Minute Crag and he's told me about it a few times. His feeling on the matter was it was simply the best climbing in Laguna Beach, hands down!
Regardless of any of that climbing stuff, you guys are getting hooked by a dude who has posted twice in 2 years!?! Things must be slow around here.
Murf
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dingus
Apr 14, 2005, 9:22 PM
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In reply to: Those people (of which I am one) who like to develop rock are out looking for these "other" areas because we like to develop, period. Its not to impress NOobie posers on the net or talk tough about people behind their backs.
There are many of us roughster, who appreciate that you are willing to share the fruits of your labor.
DMT
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dingus
Apr 14, 2005, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: I believe the vid in question is Dan soloing Beach Crack at Mickey's.
Could be. Might have been Malibu? It was a real sandy beach, brown sand stony-looking rock and he was wearing shoes, short shorts and a enviable tan!
I was pretty sure it was SoCal, but no biggie either way.
Ciao
DMT
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fredbob
Apr 14, 2005, 10:44 PM
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Of course its a pile. You're suprised? And --- Oh my god, there is some poison oak!
Actually, the 2 routes and one variation are not too bad if they are occasionally cleaned up (the holds get very sandy).
And to address the other equally hilarious comments:
1. I am at least middle aged;
2. The routes were put up about 15 years ago;
3. The routes are not over-rated in the slightest;
4. I don't think I have ever sprayed about the routes (though as Murf points out I have told a few friends about them);
5. The crag is not even close to being "grid bolted."
6. The routes used to lie 5 minutes from my house (now about 10 minutes since we've moved);
7. Climbing marginal sandstone (or any stone) in Orange County is a "climb at your own risk of wasting your time" venture.
8. I did it for for the fame and money..........
Thanks for the good laugh.
Randy
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fredbob
Apr 14, 2005, 10:48 PM
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I deleted the second time I posted the same response in case anyone might misconstrue that as spraying......
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ikefromla
Apr 14, 2005, 10:55 PM
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Steve and Aaron are old and burnt out hasbeens (especially steve). they never should have developed anything, nor should they every think about developing anything in the future. stfu n00b.
hehehehehe :lol:
my bad :wink:
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ikefromla
Apr 14, 2005, 11:10 PM
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oh yeh, randy vogel should never be allowed to develop or discuss development either.. because he obviously doesn't know anything... right?
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slavetogravity
Apr 14, 2005, 11:34 PM
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In reply to: [ Slavetogravity: You speak pretty strong words for someone with a profile like this: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=42531 ...but that is besides the point. You obviously have an example in mind. Answer this: have you had the balls to say what you typed here to his face? You seem to know the guy pretty well if you can make the assessment that he is in the middle of a midlife crisis, so perhaps you owe it to him to talk to him about it?
In reply to: Steve and Aaron are old and burnt out hasbeens (especially steve). they never should have developed anything, nor should they every think about developing anything in the future. stfu n00b. hehehehehe :lol:
Regarding my middle aged friends who have hammer drills and time and money to put into new routes. I've always given credit where credit was due. If the route was good or crap I've always let them know what I thought.
As for the BC's infamous Robin B. You're right about one thing here's a guy who couldn’t give a crap about what anyone says about him. Weather it be on the internet or to his face. I don't know the guy but in recent years he's been busy pissing off more then the likes of me by reto bolting trad routes in Skaha and Squamish, and grid bolting like never before. Robin is a hard guy to give too much crap to though. Sure he's done some lousy things, and put up more then his share of crap routes. But he's also responsible for developing more routes then any other person in the Province.
As for my profile photo. How could you not love and trust that smiling face. I have had one problem though. Ever since I found that HUGE pinecone I’ve been having problems deciding where it should go. I just don't know? Where should I stick that bug ol’ pine cone? I'll put the question to anyone who cares. Where should I stick it? The mantel perhaps?
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roughster
Apr 15, 2005, 6:25 AM
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slavetogravity:
I appreciate your good nature in response to the tone of my reply, which of course was less than friendly, but I will still ask one favor....
....go back and read your 1st post versus your second and think about the difference....
As for what to do with that pine cone? Find a cliff in the middle of nowehere. Look at it for what it is and find a line of strength. Spend $100 or so for good hardware. Spend hours of manual labor developing it, and then at the anchor ledge, leave the pinecone sitting right between the chains. Never tell a soul, and never report it on the net.
One day someone else will find that route, think, "wow check this out, a route!", climb it, and then get to the anchors. They'll see that pinecone and know it was left for them....
...and your good karma bank balance will go up :)
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rrrADAM
Apr 17, 2005, 12:53 PM
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In reply to: rrradam: With a statement like that, I would assume you would have some real examples to back that up. I am not trying to put you on the spot (or I am), but certainly you are not refering to SoCal Developers right? People who do the choss mining ARE what allows to climb at other areas besides JT and Tahquitz/Suicide. As for Laguna, I don't know who bolted it orginally but I can tell you that it is featured in the Hunk Guide by Vogel, which means most likely it was bolted before you even started climbing. So whats with the "new generation" thing? As for the ratings, ratings are usually "extreme" one way or the other until a consensus is reached. FA's that happen on the day of developing have a tendency to get soft grades due to fatigue. FA's by inexperienced people actually tend to be sandbags IME. I have yet in my experience of climbing over 10 years have seen a developer spraying about his/her developed routes in the context you used. Do you have an example???
Wow... Still playing the "butt-hurt" drama queen and looking to pick a fight, eh Aaron ???
OK... Let's review:In reply to: ...I'm surprised someone even took the time and effort to bolt the route. In reply to: I'm not... Seems now-a-days the new generation will bolt anything just so they can spray, "I FA'd a route !!!", and what makes it worse is that they'll rate it way soft so they can spray, "I FA'd a 5.XX !!!", when the route is really a 5.9+. :roll:
First the easy one...
The ratings of newer routes vs older routes... I (my opinion) have found that generally the ratings at newer crags tend to be softer than those of older crags. Case in point... The ratings at Malibu vs Williamson, or Holcomb Valley Pinnacles which is even newer, and much softer than those out at Malibu. I have found this at many crags around the country where I have climbed, not all, but many.
Now the other statement you have issue with...
Are you actually saying that you have not seen routes and asked yourself the same question ??? As in "what were they thinking" ??? :roll:
We all have. You asked for examples... Ok...
There are a few at Reimer's Ranch in Austin, Tx... The majority of the routes are really good, but some are just plain trash, and the locals told me they were put up by some gym gumbies. This is my point exactly, as even the locals agree they should not have been put up, and that they did it to get their names in a guidebook.
More ???
Junk Ramp out at Guetto Wall in Malibu is pretty bad.
More you ask ???
Not sure of the names, or if they are even in Randy's book, as I'm in South Carolina now, and don't have my JTree guide to look, but there are a couple bolted routes on a formation next to the Cyclops one on the way to the Manx Boulders that are pretty bad, and I have NEVER even seen a climber on them. Just heresay, but I was told that they were put up in the middle of the night.
Am I, or was I in any way slamming route developers ??? Nope. I sport climb, alot... And appreciate what they do, and am friends with some in SoCal, and even in other states in the US... They too have said the same thing I am saying... I find it hard to believe that you believe every route you have seen deserved to be put there. I'll give ya that I made a pretty broad statement in terms of "next generation" and "younger climbers", and that may not be fair, but it comes from what I believe their ethics, values, and motivations are from what some of them say. Example... I've heard many a younger climber state that they want climbs like Big Mo bolted, as it doesn't count since they didn't lead it, and they'd "love to get the FA on Sport Lead"... And this on a climb that's been there for what, 30 years or so ??? :roll:
Mind you, I too am a "next generation" climber, as I've only been climbing for 6 years.
I also remember ME defending YOU on the phone to two people from rec.climbing and this site who wanted some of the routes you'd entered in the RDB deleted, and that your ethics sucked, as you'd bolted in areas with sensitive access without permission. No good deed goes unpunished, eh Aaron ??? :roll:
And what does a guy's profile picture have to do with his view about anything ??? That was out of line Aaron... I seem to remember a picture of you while running in a marathon as your profile picture, and you are wearing skin tight shorts that highlight your vulva.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=32894:lol:
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roughster
Apr 17, 2005, 1:22 PM
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Ok Adam I'll take your backtracking on your stance as a concession, thats fine. A few isolated routes is a lot different than what you are implying in your intitial post.
As for newer crags versus older crags, once again it is case by case. NJC when routes 1st went up were horribly sandbagged. Alot depends on the climber strengths and weaknesses as it is related to the specific rock type. Some areas I climb exceptionally well at because the style of climbing and moves suit me well, others give me a hard time. Perhaps instead of pointing the finger at everyone and saying your B.S. above, recognize your own inherent weaknesses and strengths and how it may shape your opinion. I wouldn't go so far as to say I don't agree with a trend, but I won't agree with the assessment in your initial post.
In response to my profile pic, Adam I am surprised you freely admit to checking out my crotch. Does your wife know about your fascination with other mens crotches?
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roughster
Apr 17, 2005, 2:55 PM
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In reply to: Let me guess... It must have been really cold when that pic was taken, right ??? :roll: |
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rrrADAM
Apr 18, 2005, 12:33 AM
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Wow !!! You sure told me !!! :(
It's "rrrETARD", not retard. :lol:
You take yourself way too seriously Aaron, and this is why you always seem to be butt-hurt and in need of Mydol. Learn to be able to laugh at yourself brutha... You'll live longer. :wink:
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kindredhawk
Apr 18, 2005, 2:24 AM
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This junk is amusing... but i gotta say if its something to climb and if there is nothing else epic close by then why not cruise for a little hour session just to have fun its better than nothing right.. especially for the locals... i took my friends to a little run down face by my home and they were like what is this... well its the closest thing and we only have an hour... but thats why places like laguna beach exist now lets all un tuck our man-ginas and sing camp fires songs....
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murf
Apr 18, 2005, 3:29 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: FA's by inexperienced people actually tend to be sandbags IME. I have yet in my experience of climbing over 10 years have seen a developer spraying about his/her developed routes in the context you used. Do you have an example???Haven't been back to this thread, so sorry for the delay... Wow... Still playing the "butt-hurt" drama queen and looking to pick a fight, eh Aaron ???
Awwwww, lookey here RRRadam is back. And so is roughster, oh the HUMANITY!
In reply to: OK... Let's review: In reply to: BIG SILLY TROLL In reply to: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Adam sez that there are overrated routes everywhere in the country.
In reply to: Not sure of the names, or if they are even in Randy's book, as I'm in South Carolina now, and don't have my JTree guide to look, but there are a couple bolted routes on a formation next to the Cyclops one on the way to the Manx Boulders that are pretty bad, and I have NEVER even seen a climber on them. Just heresay, but I was told that they were put up in the middle of the night.
In all seriousness, how often a climb is done in JT is at *best* a weak indicator of quality.
In reply to: BLAH BLAH BLAH
Whoa, that made me dizzy.
In reply to: Insert bit about backstabbing from back in the day.
In reply to: In reply to: Let me guess... It must have been really cold when that pic was taken, right ??? Rolling Eyes Are you a retard? (actually there really is no need to answer that, since it is obvious without a response) You do know what bike shorts are right? If not, try riding 112 miles without them. LOL you're such a tool.
You did look at his crotch and talk about it. As much as it pains me, I have to agree with Aron, you are being a tool.
OK, lets forget about all this teary reunion and lets talk about the best damn crag in Laguna!!
Murf
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