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glyrocks
Feb 16, 2006, 12:39 AM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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GIS, people, GIS is the answer to all life's problems.
And that's what I see taking off more: geospatial guides/geodatabases. Geographic Information Systems can display spatially-referenced data. That means each piece of information (e.g. route name, grade, length, rating, protection type, FA) is attached to some feature (i.e. routes), and that feature has been attached to a very specific place in the world. Information like when the route is in the sun would be very simple thing to calculate because the GIS knows exactly where in the world the route is, and what direction it is facing.
So, you pull up a map of North Carolina, display all the trad climbing areas. Zoom in on, say, Rumbling Bald. Then zoom in on the Cereal Buttress. You could get either a 3D display, or a 2D display showing the outline of the cliff line. Either way, the starts of each route would be shown and you could very easily display information such as the route name, grade, etc. This could, of course, easily be displayed publicly online where people could add information as well. The problem, is the software costs mad cash and though easy to do, it's really f'ing time consuming to collect that kind of data and to initialize the mapping. You could have people submit coordinates from their little GPSs, but most of those are crappy, and most people don't really know what their numbers mean (e.g. datums, coordinate system vs. projection, spatial precision/accuracy). So to maintain the integrity of data, you'd want to collect yourself or one of your equally techy/not-so-cool friends.
Or, you could have a set of search criteria and have the results returned in an easy-to-print manner. You could ask it for routes that are 5 pitches with no pitch longer than 45m, are graded 5.9-5.10d, require trad gear, and are shaded in the late afternoon. Obviously the more requirements, the fewer the results, and your results will only be as good as your data. Because you define the returns, you can bring as much or as little information about the area as you want. And you won't have to carry your yuppie Nano, or Palm with you, because that's a dumbshit thing to carry around when you're climbing. So, you get both the digital, easy to edit guide, and the easy to read, thumb through, and carry guidebook. Doesn't GIS just make everyone's life better? Just kidding; but I am, obviously, a GIS geek.
I've been wanting to develop one such guide for some small local area as a pilot project. Any Raleigh, NC GIS techs want to help with a side-project?
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weschrist
Feb 16, 2006, 12:43 AM
Post #52 of 57
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Registered: Aug 13, 2004
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you gotta pay attention to the accuracy issue. I know a guide book author who just took GPS readings for boulder locations and somewhat blindly made maps from the data.... most people could have drawn a more accurate map just by looking at the area...
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letolives
Feb 16, 2006, 12:46 AM
Post #53 of 57
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Registered: Mar 29, 2004
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I would NEVER EVER take anything that resembles technology to the crag. I'll be in the wilderness at the advent of the second coming and any ipod totting miscreant better be miles away from me lest the government find me and my family armed to the teeth. I don't trust any of you technocrats and you can burn in hell.
I'll be watching for you and your technology demons at the crags.
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dingus
Feb 16, 2006, 1:16 AM
Post #54 of 57
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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In reply to: relax dingus,
Bite me.
DMT
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glyrocks
Feb 16, 2006, 4:27 AM
Post #55 of 57
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In reply to: you gotta pay attention to the accuracy issue. I know a guide book author who just took GPS readings for boulder locations and somewhat blindly made maps from the data.... most people could have drawn a more accurate map just by looking at the area...
Yea, that's why it would take more than just the cheesy hand-helds you can buy at REI and Wal-Mart. Boulders... a boulder guidebook would be a little more difficult. To even come close to the usefulness and accuracy of a hand drawn guide, you'd need a really f'ing nice handheld, a base station, and error correcting capabilities- not something the average person has available.
EDIT: Also, it would be pretty easy to digitize (draw) routes or problems in based on your own local knowledge. The problem comes in dealing with thousands of routes/problems. I don't see routes being as big of a problem because the starts are usually far enough apart. And I don't really care about bouldering...
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glyrocks
Feb 16, 2006, 4:34 AM
Post #56 of 57
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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In reply to: I would NEVER EVER take anything that resembles technology to the crag.
I guess you walk to the crag or boulder field and climb barefoot and gearless then.
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papounet
Feb 16, 2006, 12:41 PM
Post #57 of 57
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Registered: May 28, 2003
Posts: 471
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I am regularly participating in road trip in remote desert areas such as Algeria, Jordan (and soon Mali).
It takes a considerable time to get advance information as guide books are non existant , obsolete or out of print, simple map better than 1:200.000 are not available (and, there is no quality sat pictures of those countries, no). You may find some beta on Internet, but the quality is random. I can't imagine depending on complex technology soon because the data is where the cost is. and this time preparing th climbs is not totally lost, it has some value.
So we end usually end up with the paper book safely stashed at the base camp and photocopies of the relevant pages (guide or internet) in our pockets and a compass and a headlamp and in fact all the anti-epic kit we should have when adventuring.
We do not need yet an additional device to take care of, to carry and have battery for.
I am rather techno and gear oriented. I have, of course, used GPS to try to locate some routes for my immediate use or for providing better beta to other climbers.
... and yet...
although I got lost en route more than once and I have been misled by some poorly made topos, I am not looking for ultra-precise information. I do not need a GPS coordinates on each and every holds. I am not a puppet to repeat move by move the topo writer idea of the route up a face.
I am of the opinion that most climbers would benefit more from improving their own terrain reading ability than from a "magical device".
Edit: I just found today a GPS location for the burdah arch in the Wadi Tum area in Jordan http://www.travelbygps.com/...um/jordan/jordan.php At leat I can google earth now. The 15 days I spend there on foot with maps helps me make sense of the pic, not the reverse.
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