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ouch_quit_it
Apr 12, 2006, 3:26 AM
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this guy also deserves the golden piton:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/106717
michael reardon has done some amazing, incredible stuff that i could never, ever do. i'm sad that, probably, one day he'll die climbing. it's also sad that we're all being cheerleaders to his death.
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jt512
Apr 12, 2006, 3:38 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I am infinitely more interested in who wins the GOTY 2006 award than who gets the "golden piton" for (rehearsed) free solos, hangdogging on cams (aka "trad climbing"), doing the first ethics-free ascent of old aid routes, or whatever other categories they can make up to give out those awards for. All of these things are more or less true, except for the "rehearsed" part. The whole point of freesoloing Romantic Warrior onsight was to push the boat out. You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference? Curt
You've seen me redpoint one -- but anyway. My "claims" are pretty banal. Mike's are grandiose; and it's not a question of you believing him, but the leading climbing magazine, which supposedly has some journalistic standards that would require convincing evidence, especially if they're going to give him an award. There is great controversy within the local climbing community as to whether Michael has "padded" his climbing resume. Rarely is anyone around to witness his major solos. In contrast, there are numerous people who say they have seen him fake soloing photos or back off routes (eg, Tossed Green (5.10a)) that one would think would be easy solos for someone who has accomplished what he has claimed. It's this imbalance that has led me to wonder if he's always telling the truth. I don't recall any shortage of witnesses for Croft's solos.
Jay
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jerryspringer
Apr 12, 2006, 3:40 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference? Curt
The difference is Jay has belayers, witnesses as well as disinterested third parties that can verify his claims. Reardon has none of the above, well except photochopped pic's. Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 3:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: You state that like it like it was fact, whereas there is no consensus in the climbing community as to whether it actually occurred -- that goes for many of Michael's other claims as well. I find it incredible that Climbing would give the award for claimed accomplishments of this magnitude, without better substantiation. Jay You claim to have red-pointed a bunch of 5.12 climbs. I have never seen you do this, but knowing you--I certainly believe you. What's the difference? Curt The difference is Jay has belayers, witnesses as well as disinterested third parties that can verify his claims. Reardon has none of the above, well except photochopped pic's. Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it.
I know both Jay and Michael personally and I have climbed with both of them. Why don't you post statements like yours above under your real name--so we can decide for ourselves if you are "anybody?"
Curt
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jerryspringer
Apr 12, 2006, 4:10 AM
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In reply to: I know both Jay and Michael personally and I have climbed with both of them. Why don't you post statements like yours above under your real name--so we can decide for ourselves if you are "anybody?" Curt
That is my name you arrogant pissant, though most of my friends call me by my middle name Dave and I am a nobody. I also know Jay and have been witness to dozens of conversations with the local hardmen on this subject and I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it."
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 4:28 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I know both Jay and Michael personally and I have climbed with both of them. Why don't you post statements like yours above under your real name--so we can decide for ourselves if you are "anybody?" Curt That is my name you arrogant pissant, though most of my friends call me by my middle name Dave and I am a nobody.
Hi Dave. Doesn't that one small attempt at honesty make you feel better about yourself? I'm sure it does.
In reply to: I also know Jay and have been witness to dozens of conversations with the local hardmen on this subject and I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it."
Well if you heard conversations that the local hardmen had on this subject, then that's good enough for me. :lol:
Curt
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dudemanbu
Apr 12, 2006, 4:41 AM
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What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers?
If it were me (not to question his mindset, I know that I'll never solo anything, let alone anything that hard) I would much rather people not constantly question my accomplishments.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 4:50 AM
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In reply to: What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers?
Right. Because, as we all know, the only valid reason to climb is to impress other people. :D
Curt
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dudemanbu
Apr 12, 2006, 5:01 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers? Right. Because, as we all know, the only valid reason to climb is to impress other people. :D Curt
Haha, i didn't mean it like that. But you make a good point.
He has essentially chosen to be in the public eye. I mean, he could simply decline to be photographed all together, and decline to have any press coverage.
I think that once you put yourself out there, you establish a certain line of accountability to the people that you're panning yourself to.
But that's neither here or there. I'd just hate to be in his shoes and have people diminishing or questioning my accomplishments.
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curt
Apr 12, 2006, 5:07 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: What's the point of freesoloing a line that impressive if you don't have a neutral third party to verify it and silence the disbelievers? Right. Because, as we all know, the only valid reason to climb is to impress other people. :D Curt Haha, i didn't mean it like that. But you make a good point. He has essentially chosen to be in the public eye. I mean, he could simply decline to be photographed all together, and decline to have any press coverage. I think that once you put yourself out there, you establish a certain line of accountability to the people that you're panning yourself to. But that's neither here or there. I'd just hate to be in his shoes and have people diminishing or questioning my accomplishments.
You make a good point too. I know Michael and I have climbed with him. Michael is a very strong climber and he has never lied to me--as far as I know. So, my position is that I believe what he says until someone proves otherwise. It's just that simple.
Curt
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dudemanbu
Apr 12, 2006, 5:13 AM
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I can definitely respect that. To clarify, I'm not a doubter. I don't know anything about the scene, and I've got a great deal of respect for anyone that climbs that hard, let alone ropeless.
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tim
Apr 12, 2006, 5:39 AM
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In reply to: michael reardon has done some amazing, incredible stuff that i could never, ever do. i'm sad that, probably, one day he'll die climbing. it's also sad that we're all being cheerleaders to his death.
Why aren't Garibotti, Bachar, Croft, and Barber dead, then? Even Walt Shipley did not die during one of his crazy sick soloing episodes (he died kayaking).
It's quite possible that you're right and Mike will fall off something when it matters, but it's also possible that he'll calm down after a bit and do like Croft et al have done. Mike's got a wife and a daughter, and while he also has an ego, I'm reasonably hopeful that the former win out over the latter.
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kalcario
Apr 12, 2006, 5:55 AM
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In reply to: I repeat "Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it."
This is true. It has only gone as far as it has because it is easy to fool people in LA, where no really good climbers live, so the uninitiated have no one to compare and contrast Reardon to. If this was going on in Climbing Magazine's back yard, i.e. someone was claiming outrageous free solos but no one ever saw him do anything, and what you did see him do convinced you he was nowhere near that level, then the only ink you would see in the mags would discredit, not support, those claims.
My favorite is the claim of 150 pitches at Tahquitz in a day. Those are trad pitches, so we're talking in the neighboorhood of 15,000-18,000 feet of climbing and descending in a long day, which I assume involved no night climbing. 30,000+ feet of altitude change in, say, 15 hours. The hiking equivalent of that would be doing the Mountaineers Route round trip from Whitney Portal twice, then back to the summit of Whitney, in a day. How stupid would you have to be to believe that...Caldwell took almost 24 hours to do 2 El Cap routes and descend 3000 feet between them, which is 9000 feet of altitude change in 24 hours.
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strangeday
Apr 12, 2006, 5:59 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Nobody that is anybody in socal believes a word of it. John Bachar is now a nobody?
Hey Jerry, just wanted to let you know, I live and climb in So. Cal, and I believe every word of it. If someone of Bachar's status is willing to vouch for mike, along with others, thats good enough for me.
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westhegimp
Apr 12, 2006, 6:55 AM
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Joe,
What do you know about free solo climbing?
Have you ever climbed with MR out @ Tahquitz?
Are you aware that no matter how many times you climb Tahquitz in a row you will never be at an altitude close to the altitude at the summit of Whitney? Have you ever climbed the MR on Whitney? If you have I'm surprised you make this analogy.
How much time is involved placing gear, building anchors & waiting for your second to climb and clean each pitch?
Imagine climbing on an invisible TR, on easy ground (for you), how fast could you climb a pitch?
You close your mind to the possibility that these things may be true because you don't like Mike. I see your negative posts attached to every topic about him. Why do you take the MR news like a personal attack?
Wes
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westhegimp
Apr 12, 2006, 7:04 AM
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Joe,
A couple of weeks ago Mike did a series of in store appearances at REI(NR,HB,SD?). Plenty of notice was given. Questions were encouraged. How come you didn't come out and air your concerns/ questions?
In person. Face to face.
Wes
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westhegimp
Apr 12, 2006, 7:08 AM
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Joe,
A couple of weeks ago Mike did a series of in store appearances at REI(NR,HB,SD?). Plenty of notice was given. Questions were encouraged. How come you didn't come out and air your concerns/ questions?
In person. Face to face.
Wes
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kalcario
Apr 12, 2006, 7:18 AM
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*You close your mind to the possibility that these things may be true because you don't like Mike. I see your negative posts attached to every topic about him. Why do you take the MR news like a personal attack? *
Nothing personal, just common sense.
Ok, try this. The fastest Croft and Schultz ever did the Nose, after having done the thing dozens of times between them, was 4 1/2 hours - 7 pitches an hour. At that rate, how long would it take to do 150 pitches. Yes, that's right, 21 hours. But we're not talking about just 150 pitches, are we, because you have to *descend* those pitches, too, either by running around the backside or by downclimbing the pitches. Downclimbing would count as part of the 150, but would slow you down to where you'd be doing, at most, 3 or 4 pitches an hour, not 7. I don't need to know somebody to know what is and isn't possible.
What is the hardest thing you personally have seen him free solo?
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bdplayer
Apr 12, 2006, 12:03 PM
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In reply to: I wasn't commenting on Reardon in particular (though I would imagine the vast majority of his free soloing is rehearsed). The truth is, though, that I really don't care, because it has nothing to do with the sport I am interested in (which is not about boldness). But if they are going to give silly awards for boldness and Evel Knieval style stunts, people who free solo rock climbs are probably among the least deserving.
Who cares if free soloing is "rehearsed." You can die just as easily on a 5.5, as a 5.12 if you screw up. Granted, it's a lot less likely, but the ground doesn't care where you came from once you peel off.
I don't think that the award for free climbing is for ballsiness. It's more of an appreciation for the guy who just climbs. Nothing weighing him down, nothing to fall back on, nothing getting between him and the rock.
Freesoloing is a scary thing. But there is nothing like it, in my opinion. I jumped out of a perfectly good aircraft yesterday, but the whole time I was thinking about how much better it is to be on the rock.
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tonloc
Apr 12, 2006, 1:37 PM
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not sure why people are so up in arms about it...unless you are a friend there is no reason to be offended one way or the other about it...it was pretty badass what he did, he had people watch him solo the hard parts later right? That alone is pretty badass, even if it was rehearsed...anyways im no hater i busted my leg up peeling off of a V6 today so i'm not threatened by his accomplishments or the implications thereof...
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j_ung
Apr 12, 2006, 1:52 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: what i find interesting is how it only took 4 posts for you guys to start bashing the michael-bashers, even though none of them has posted here yet. relax a little; let's not hijack this thread prematurely. my congrats to Mr. Reardon for this recognition of his achievements. peace :oops: You're right. Thanks for the reality check.
I really should have waited until the second page. :lol:
Hey jerryspringer, what's your whole name?
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keinangst
Apr 12, 2006, 2:09 PM
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Forget all the name-dropping and ego stroking for a second...
Not to denigrate Michael's skill or choice of pursuits in any way, I just think it's irresponsible for a mainstream climbing publication to glorify this pursuit to an audience that has the physical (but probably not mental) capability of imitating this pursuit. Maybe I'm way off-base, but I feel that mainstream rags with large audiences ought to stick to roped climbing and leave freesoloing to those who are individually prepared. In contrast, Baffin expeditions and similar "dangerous" activities in the mag have an inherently higher barrier to entry (cost, logistics), while freesoloing can be imitated by any jackass at the local crag.
Are they going to add a "Tech Tips: Freesoloing" section?
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tim
Apr 12, 2006, 2:50 PM
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Why should Climbing rag care if you die doing something stupid?
Their job is to move product, not babysit idiots. In fact, the dumber their audience is, the better chance they have of moving product.
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brogant
Apr 12, 2006, 2:54 PM
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Someone above wrote:
"Nothing personal, just common sense.
Ok, try this. The fastest Croft and Schultz ever did the Nose, after having done the thing dozens of times between them, was 4 1/2 hours - 7 pitches an hour. At that rate, how long would it take to do 150 pitches. Yes, that's right, 21 hours. But we're not talking about just 150 pitches, are we, because you have to *descend* those pitches, too, either by running around the backside or by downclimbing the pitches. Downclimbing would count as part of the 150, but would slow you down to where you'd be doing, at most, 3 or 4 pitches an hour, not 7. I don't need to know somebody to know what is and isn't possible."
You don't know much about soloing. I am a climber of limited talent, and I have soloed 33 pitches at Tahquitz in 4 hours. I have also soloed the Regular route on Fairview (9 pithes) in 55 minutes. So your time estimate of 3 or 4 pitches an hour is way off. I also know Mike and believe that if I can solo 33 pitches in 4 hours he can and did solo 150 pitches in 15 hours. At the rate I was doing my routes I would have done 120 pitches in 16 hours.
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